In my eyes Nash will go down as one of the best Point Guards, but I don't think he's a shoe-in hall of famer, and I don't think hes better than Isiah. That championship ring is worth alot, and I think even Steve Nash would agree when I say that 1 championship ring is better then 2 MVP awards. And now the heat is on since if he doesn't get a ring this year, then the team will most likely be broken apart in the off season and re-done. And though this isn't the strongest arguement, Nash has never been a starter in an all-star game, and in a way, I think that sort of reflects his PG status compared to some of the greats like stockton magic and isiah.
<div class="quote_poster">elevate Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In my eyes Nash will go down as one of the best Point Guards, but I don't think he's a shoe-in hall of famer, and I don't think hes better than Isiah. That championship ring is worth alot, and I think even Steve Nash would agree when I say that 1 championship ring is better then 2 MVP awards. And now the heat is on since if he doesn't get a ring this year, then the team will most likely be broken apart in the off season and re-done. And though this isn't the strongest arguement, Nash has never been a starter in an all-star game, and in a way, I think that sort of reflects his PG status compared to some of the greats like stockton magic and isiah.</div> Every year, a dozen players win a championship ring. Championships mean a lot when rating how great a franchise has been. Not players.
i disagree. i think rings matter a WHOLE lot. had hakeem not won a championship, he wouldnt be remembered as such a great player as he is, had jordan not won 6, he wouldnt be rememberd as he is, had guys like ewing and malone won 1, they would be viewed in a diffrent way, so i disagree
<div class="quote_poster">elevate Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">i disagree. i think rings matter a WHOLE lot. had hakeem not won a championship, he wouldnt be remembered as such a great player as he is, had jordan not won 6, he wouldnt be rememberd as he is, had guys like ewing and malone won 1, they would be viewed in a diffrent way, so i disagree</div> I'm not talking about how they would be viewed. I'm talking about how good they were as players. Yes, winning a championship will greatly improve your reputation. But it doesn't have nearly as much to do with how good you were.
durvasa....who do you consider the top 5 players of the 80s? I think Magic, Bird, Isiah, and Jordan are the consensus for top 4. In evaluating effectivness, you have to take leadership into account. Had Jordan never won an NBA Championship, you better believe he wouldnt be recognized as the greatest of all time, not even greater than Magic and Bird for that matter. Isiah was right behind Magic and Bird in the 80s. That is even arguable because I think the Celts and Lakers were absolutely more loaded than the Pistons. Also, Isiah led that team from nothing to two World Championships in a very strong NBA and a VERY strong Eastern Conference.
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And Isiah was inefficient? He did get a lot of turnovers because as a point guard, he frequently handled the ball. This is the same Isiah who averaged 21/4.5/14 in a season, which is greater than any season Nash has ever had. Had Isiah been a part of this extremely less competitive season in the 2000's, he could have gotten 3 maybe 4 MVP awards. His FG% was also very high, so how was he inefficient enough to help his team lose a lot of games?</div> Wait Isaiah averaged 14 assists 1 year? Damn I though John Stockton was the only person to do that. And the only person to get a 1,000 assists in one season and continued 1,000 assists years.
I'd have to put Steve Nash behind Isiah Thomas right now, for mostly what MrJ mentioned before, but he's still a top 10 point guard in history player for me. Steve Nash still has a long way to go before hanging it up, so would it help Steve's if he keeps up his MVP numbers, takes the Suns to multiple trips to the finals and possibly winning a championship?
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">durvasa....who do you consider the top 5 players of the 80s? I think Magic, Bird, Isiah, and Jordan are the consensus for top 4. In evaluating effectivness, you have to take leadership into account. Had Jordan never won an NBA Championship, you better believe he wouldnt be recognized as the greatest of all time, not even greater than Magic and Bird for that matter. Isiah was right behind Magic and Bird in the 80s. That is even arguable because I think the Celts and Lakers were absolutely more loaded than the Pistons. Also, Isiah led that team from nothing to two World Championships in a very strong NBA and a VERY strong Eastern Conference.</div> In the 80s, I'd say Dr. J, Moses, Bird, Magic, and Jordan are probably the top 5. After that, there are probably a handful of players that can be considered. Kareem (despite being in the downward slope of his career), Dominique, Gervin, Hakeem, Barkley, and Isiah are among them. Probably others I'm forgetting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash has exceed Isiah Thomas my opinion. Other than Magic and maybe Stockton, I don't think there's been a better PG on the offensive end. Granted, I wasn't watching the NBA 30 years ago, but I just think Nash is special. In terms of pure basketball skill and "IQ," he's the best since Larry Bird.</div> I agree....
let's face it, Steve Nash is making a SERIOUS case for the best offensive point guard of all time... he combines the leadership of a Magic with the crafty passing of Stockton. And anyone commenting how he's only been good for 3 years, there was a reason why Amare personally begged him to come to Phoenix - he had seen what he had done in Dallas. In Dallas he was never fully given the keys to the car, THAT is why he "ONLY" averaged 17 and 8 or whatever it was.... The team was Finley's first, then Dirk's - - it was never Nash's team. However, Stevie needs to win a ring and this year will be TOUGH...
^^^I agree with this also....Nash was ALWAYS good.....people act like he's some scrub that came out of nowhere and started to play amazing basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> In Dallas he was never fully given the keys to the car, THAT is why he "ONLY" averaged 17 and 8 or whatever it was.... The team was Finley's first, then Dirk's - - it was never Nash's team. </div> Good point..
Nash is the best player in the league with another 2 all-stars, why the hell he can't win a championship? If you give marion and Stoudemire to MJ, Magic or Isiah, they will probably dominate the league for 10 years lol The reason he got so many MVP award I believe is base on his stats. Suns is basically run and gun, his stats for sure will be very good. Does NBA stats includes stats like +/- in NHL which count on defense so much. Turnover doesn't count much when considering MVP... MVP award for sure means so much but the rings weight much higher especially when you are the leader of the team and the best player in the team. Stop telling us how about those bench players like robert horry, he is not even the starter of any NBA championship team.
Well Magic had 6 seasons of 24+ PER compared to Nash's 1 (2006-2007; Nash's best offensive year), so Magic still obviously has the edge. Stockton had sixteen seasons of 21+ PER... Amazing. Nash's body of work is too short, though this one season (06-07) ranks him up there with Stockton. JS is still the better overall player (taking into account defense).
