<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> So who gets blamed? Naturally, the NBA. The league's fundamental issue has remained the same for four decades: It's a league of mostly black players marketing itself to a mostly white audience and a mostly white media. That delicate balance was the premise of David Halberstam's watershed sports book "The Breaks of the Game," which was published 25 years ago, back when MJ was playing for Carolina and Michael Jackson was on his second nose. Nothing has really changed. Just look at the way Iverson's credentials were belittled when Philly shopped him last December, or the comically skewed reaction to a Nuggets-Knicks brawl that wasn't one-tenth as violent as the Senators-Sabres brawl last week. Certain media members will always delight in sticking it to the NBA, with the underlying theme being, "Sorry, I just can't identify with those black guys." I wish Scoop had tackled this subject, asking why some media members gleefully used All-Star Weekend as their latest excuse to crush the league. Instead, he played the race card, based his premise on a dubious statistic and came off misguided. Once upon a time, the late Ralph Wiley repeatedly proved an African-American sports columnist could write intelligently about racial issues without using his skin color as a crutch. After Ralph passed away three years ago, Scoop Jackson vowed to carry Ralph's torch on Page 2. I just wish he'd brought that torch to Vegas. </div> I personally cannot stand Scoop's writing as he plays the race card in almost EVERY single column that he writes. Bill Simmons' response to Scoop's original column about Vegas is actually well-needed because after Jason Whitlock's bashing of him, it was only a matter of time before Scoop's writing credentials came further into question. And, like Bill mentions, he is quite hypocritical as well. I really dislike the way that he writes his columns and the subject matter (racism) that he continually chooses to focus on or subtlely sneak in into every single peice that he produces. I loved him at SLAM, but if you read his columns nowadays, you'd understand why I don't like him. Anyways, here are the link to Scoop's original column and Bill's response: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=jackson/070228 - Scoop Jackson's original column http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons - Bill Simmons
Wow, no one else is a Scoop hater? Sorry, but I'm glad Simmons owned him. What even more ironic is the fact that it was Scoop himself who predicted in his pre-Vegas column that "atleast one person will get shot or stabbed" (or something along those lines) in Vegas. Atleast Simmons is slowly looking to be producing better columns nowadays, even though this one's at the expense of Scoop. Scoop dug his own grave when he took a swideswipe at Simmons and Whitlock in his opening line though. I'm assuming Whitlock (who already has a problem with Scoop) is going to rebuttal as well and Scoop will end up looking even more stupider than the crap he puts out.
I think the most embarrassing thing for Scoop is that, after roasting him for that little comment he made, Simmons actually summarized the whole "NBA being unfairly blamed" angle much better than he possibly could've. btw, he's still stupid for saying the Pac-10 sucks later on.
"Playin the race card" is a silly cop out when ppl don't have a legit rebuttal. Truth is, Scoop is right. The NBA does get unfairly labeled for stuff that other sports look right past. I've literally seen a hockey player take his stick and swing it at another guy's head lol. Yet when I saw the replays, I heard absolutley no mention of "thug", "hiphop culture" or any such thing. It's a HUGE double standard with NBA players opposed to other athletes. Just face it, it's easier for corporate america to fear young black men than any other race.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">"Playin the race card" is a silly cop out when ppl don't have a legit rebuttal. Truth is, Scoop is right. The NBA does get unfairly labeled for stuff that other sports look right past. I've literally seen a hockey player take his stick and swing it at another guy's head lol. Yet when I saw the replays, I heard absolutley no mention of "thug", "hiphop culture" or any such thing. It's a HUGE double standard with NBA players opposed to other athletes. Just face it, it's easier for corporate america to fear young black men than any other race.</div> Right, they call a hockey player a sucker-puncher or a goon, and the stigma that follows them is that they're no higher on the intellignce chain than cave men. Are we to assume that 'goon' is an anti-Canadian white guy remark? Hockey is ignored by 90% of America, anyways, though, so it should come as no surprise that the 'bad' hockey players aren't exactly dinnertime conversations. There is usually some truth to what Scoop says, but he goes overboard, and that's what makes him an oft-criticized writer. I think that constantly bringing up race in sports doesn't help anything - it just makes people start arguing. It's too bad that the issue is still that sensative in our country, but if that's how it is, I'd like to see it left out of sports. If some people are foolish enough to equate spoiled athletes who misbehave to the characeteristics of an entire race, it's because they're never going to figure things out. And it means that they're not exactly the most intelligent beings around, right? I try not to get upset when Digger Phelps or Doug Gottleib hate on Wisconsin or the Big 10, because I just keep in mind that they're idiots. The same thought process can be applied to worrying about fans or other people who can't seperate individual people of a different color from some loser football star who they heard about on the Today Show.
The majority of Bill Simmons' response is actually strengthening Scoop's point so that it makes more sense. His original article is so random and, while it does have a redeeming point, it ultimately lacks focus. Simmons restates the argument about the negative stigma attached to the NBA much better, and without all the emotional crap.
<div class="quote_poster">Schaddy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Right, they call a hockey player a sucker-puncher or a goon, and the stigma that follows them is that they're no higher on the intellignce chain than cave men. Are we to assume that 'goon' is an anti-Canadian white guy remark? Hockey is ignored by 90% of America, anyways, though, so it should come as no surprise that the 'bad' hockey players aren't exactly dinnertime conversations.</div> Yea, but there is difference. The word "Thug" as been used so many times by commentators, writers and other ppl when describing the NBA. Not to say goon is a good word, but it hasn't been used half the times "Thug" has. It's not about no anti-hogwash, it's about corporate america blaming hiphop culture on everything wrong with the NBA. Scoop has a point <div class="quote_poster">Schaddy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There is usually some truth to what Scoop says, but he goes overboard, and that's what makes him an oft-criticized writer. I think that constantly bringing up race in sports doesn't help anything - it just makes people start arguing. It's too bad that the issue is still that sensative in our country, but if that's how it is, I'd like to see it left out of sports. If some people are foolish enough to equate spoiled athletes who misbehave to the characeteristics of an entire race, it's because they're never going to figure things out. And it means that they're not exactly the most intelligent beings around, right? I try not to get upset when Digger Phelps or Doug Gottleib hate on Wisconsin or the Big 10, because I just keep in mind that they're idiots. The same thought process can be applied to worrying about fans or other people who can't seperate individual people of a different color from some loser football star who they heard about on the Today Show.</div> I wish we could leave race out of sports too....But unfortunatley we can't. Even in the NFL, a whole league of black players and no owners lol. How can we just look past that? That's disgraceful! The NBA isn't close to being America's most popular sport, but whenever theres a altercation it's shown atleast 25-30 times on sportscenter or any other outlet. I literally saw Melo punch that guy atleast 20 times that night. My point is how can you just ignore racial issues when it's obvious that things aren't close to being equal. Especially wrongful stereotypes. P.S. I was warned not to talk about this issue. So unfortunatley I can't say anymore
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Playin the race card" is a silly cop out when ppl don't have a legit rebuttal. Truth is, Scoop is right. The NBA does get unfairly labeled for stuff that other sports look right past. I've literally seen a hockey player take his stick and swing it at another guy's head lol. Yet when I saw the replays, I heard absolutley no mention of "thug", "hiphop culture" or any such thing. It's a HUGE double standard with NBA players opposed to other athletes. Just face it, it's easier for corporate america to fear young black men than any other race.</div> Word....I'll just leave it at that. I'm sure there were some crazy things that went down and Vegas, and I'm sure a lot of famous rappers, etc. brought their cliques with them and some situations got out of hand, BUT the thing is that whenever black people act up it is magnified in the corporate spotlight. I remember reading the first report about the all-star weekend, and I thought "this columnist is probably telling the truth about events that happened", BUT I also could tell that he was just another racist journalist who just waits for an opportunity for something to go wrong so he can call it out. Lets use hip hop for example (which is viewed as a inner city black culture). You can never hear the media saying anything good about the culture and what it came from. You won't hear CNN reporting on Jay and Nas squashing their beef, you won't hear your local news running spots on the foundation of hip hop culture, you won't hear about all the good a lot of these rappers are doing in the community. But you will hear "such and such got shot", "such and such got caught with drugs", etc. I am a hip hoppa and a black man and I will be the first to criticize when either of my communties is doing something wrong, but I will also be the first to stick up for them when I feel like they're being dragged through the mud. There's a lot of racism that still exists in the sports world, and just like racism that exists outside of the sports world people are afraid to talk about it. A couple of months back before "Quite Frankly" went off the air, Stephen A. Smith had a great show dealing with Muhammad Ali and the Nation of Islam. There was a lot of intelligent discussion dealing with racial issues in the 60's and racial issues now. A couple of days later "Quite Frankly" is cancelled out of the blue....why I still don't know. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I wish we could leave race out of sports too....But unfortunatley we can't. Even in the NFL, a whole league of black players and no owners lol. How can we just look past that? That's disgraceful! The NBA isn't close to being America's most popular sport, but whenever theres a altercation it's shown atleast 25-30 times on sportscenter or any other outlet. I literally saw Melo punch that guy atleast 20 times that night. My point is how can you just ignore racial issues when it's obvious that things aren't close to being equal. Especially wrongful stereotypes. </div> I remember watching the replay of that fight and saying "I've seen much worst".... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">P.S. I was warned not to talk about this issue. So unfortunatley I can't say anymore</div> No offense to the mods, but I think this part of the problem. Whether we like it or not Race is a very important issue in the sports world today (and has been since the negro leagues, segregation,etc.) and I feel that we should be able to discuss it intelligently on a sports board. As long as no names are being called and we keep it civilized then when should be able to discuss something with great importance to the sporting community and society in general.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Word....I'll just leave it at that. I'm sure there were some crazy things that went down and Vegas, and I'm sure a lot of famous rappers, etc. brought their cliques with them and some situations got out of hand, BUT the thing is that whenever black people act up it is magnified in the corporate spotlight. I remember reading the first report about the all-star weekend, and I thought "this columnist is probably telling the truth about events that happened", BUT I also could tell that he was just another racist journalist who just waits for an opportunity for something to go wrong so he can call it out. Lets use hip hop for example (which is viewed as a inner city black culture). You can never hear the media saying anything good about the culture and what it came from. You won't hear CNN reporting on Jay and Nas squashing their beef, you won't hear your local news running spots on the foundation of hip hop culture, you won't hear about all the good a lot of these rappers are doing in the community. But you will hear "such and such got shot", "such and such got caught with drugs", etc. I am a hip hoppa and a black man and I will be the first to criticize when either of my communties is doing something wrong, but I will also be the first to stick up for them when I feel like they're being dragged through the mud. There's a lot of racism that still exists in the sports world, and just like racism that exists outside of the sports world people are afraid to talk about it. A couple of months back before "Quite Frankly" went off the air, Stephen A. Smith had a great show dealing with Muhammad Ali and the Nation of Islam. There was a lot of intelligent discussion dealing with racial issues in the 60's and racial issues now. A couple of days later "Quite Frankly" is cancelled out of the blue....why I still don't know.</div> I reckon ESPN decided that Stephen A. Smith's style didn't fit with their image - which is trying to be a professional, journalistic sports network. He went a little nuts when he got that show. JOurnalistic integrity means being impartial which he NEVER is, and respecting your guests, which he sometimes did............ He was like a preacher or something and if you look at their other personnel, they are all very professional and journalistic. ALSO, Nation of Islam isn't sports.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ALSO, Nation of Islam isn't sports</div> Why don't you tell that to the athletes who were part of N.O.I. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I reckon ESPN decided that Stephen A. Smith's style didn't fit with their image - which is trying to be a professional, journalistic sports network. He went a little nuts when he got that show. JOurnalistic integrity means being impartial which he NEVER is, and respecting your guests, which he sometimes did............ He was like a preacher or something and if you look at their other personnel, they are all very professional and journalistic. </div> ESPN is filled with loud mouth morons (see Bill Walton). Stephen A. wasn't any different than a majority of the analysts that appear on your screen every day. I find it odd that it was okay for Stephen to be loud "Screamin A" until he tackled racism in the sporting world.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I wish we could leave race out of sports too....But unfortunatley we can't. Even in the NFL, a whole league of black players and no owners lol. How can we just look past that? That's disgraceful! The NBA isn't close to being America's most popular sport, but whenever theres a altercation it's shown atleast 25-30 times on sportscenter or any other outlet. I literally saw Melo punch that guy atleast 20 times that night. My point is how can you just ignore racial issues when it's obvious that things aren't close to being equal. Especially wrongful stereotypes. </div> Dude, I see your point there, but a lot of it is perception - both the media's, and your own. You don't think there were a million replays of Chris Simon using his stick as an ax for the Islanders? They showed 4 replays on Sportscenter just while going to a commercial - John Anderson was previewing it as 'and coming up, get Barry Melrose's analysis of the suspension handed down for this vicious hit', while they were on a replay loop of the incident. I'm not disagreeing with you; on some level, blacks are stereotyped and nipicked by the media, sports media included. I also think, though, that you're reading a bit too much into it. I don't say that maliciously, it's just my observation. I definitely do see some of the things you're talking about. It's too bad, no matter what our opinions may be co-sign on Chutney's post - I don't care what Screamin' A's agenda is, or whether he's right or not. That guy is a Craftsman Toolchest. He's like John Madden, Jim Rome and Billy Packer all rolled into one, and then turned up to 11
Pointing to Stephen A. Smith is just a bad example, IMO. Of course there's racism in sports and in the media, but that dude had absolutely no credibility. He was a joke among his peers and the viewing audience and his sports knowledge was limited. He may have been fired after he did a show on racism, but I honestly see that as more of a coincidence, because that show's cancellation was a long time coming. And you can't compare him to other loud-mouthed gimmicks like Walton, because they don't get nearly enough airtime and don't try to venture into serious journalism.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Pointing to Stephen A. Smith is just a bad example, IMO. Of course there's racism in sports and in the media, but that dude had absolutely no credibility. He was a joke among his peers and the viewing audience and his sports knowledge was limited. He may have been fired after he did a show on racism, but I honestly see that as more of a coincidence, because that show's cancellation was a long time coming. And you can't compare him to other loud-mouthed gimmicks like Walton, because they don't get nearly enough airtime and don't try to venture into serious journalism.</div> My point wasn't about him being a "respectful" journalist, but rather the fact that ESPN is okay with him being "Screaming A", but when he held an hour long program with some good, intelligent discussion that some (who aren't open minded) might find offensive he got the boot......there's a lot of racism in sports journalism and journalism in general..... But to get to my main point, Simmons is an idiot for criticizing Scoop and then "playing the race card" himself by guessing what a dead "black man" would've wrote about.
Um .... From what i read the main point of Scoop's arguement was that "nothing happened in Vegas" and people were unfairly blaming the NBA and it was race related. Simmons came in and quite clearly stated 1) stuff did happen in vegas 2) it had very little to do with the NBA itself. Any image problem the NBA has relating to the Vegas weekend is hardly it's fault considering the weak police presence. As Chutney already said I think Simmons actually strethened Scoops arguement but at the same time he called him out for twisting the facts to try and make his point.
But there weren't any facts he was twisting. He was just trying to call out the journalists who jumped on the opportunity to report bad happenings at an event where there was a large attendance of black people.
No, he was twisting the facts by blatantly downplaying the problems in Vegas during the ASG. And Simmons called him out on it. Scoop pointed to statistics given by the Las Vegas police (like they don't have an agenda) and ignored arrests that weren't reported. He then put up the lame excuse that "Vegas is Vegas." As for the argument that "people were reporting it more because there were a lot of black people," well I just find that a weak cop-out. There were plenty of reasons why the general lawlessnes of Vegas' All-Star Week got a lot of coverage: it was a major sporting event, it was the 1st ASG not taking place in an NBA city, it was essentially a test to see if Vegas could support an NBA franchise, Vegas is generally a city that attracts a media circus, there was a lot of hype leading up to the event, etc. The point that Scoop should've made was that people were unfairly blaming the NBA for problems that the host city had and that were generally out of its hands. Instead he tried to create a shaky link to racism and approached an issue that is much bigger and didn't deserve to be half-assed.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why don't you tell that to the athletes who were part of N.O.I. </div> I just think bringing the nation of islam into it is going to alienate a lot of viewers, JUST like if they had a born-again athlete and he started going on about his religion, or a Mormon. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Stephen A. wasn't any different than a majority of the analysts that appear on your screen every day. I find it odd that it was okay for Stephen to be loud "Screamin A" until he tackled racism in the sporting world.</div> The guy is really abrasive. you will not win people over by screaming the same thing at them over and over again really angrily. on one of the shows, he started off by angrily talking about how he was one of the few black sportscasters out there and what have you - well his way of changing that is by putting on a good show, not by doing an angry sermon at the beginning of the show where he repeats the same thing over and over again. his show became a place for him to deal with his many issues, and that's not what it's supposed to be. i'm sure he can afford a good therapist. did you hear him on his podcast talk about how he doesn't think homophobia can be compared to racism? dude went INSANE. screaming over and over and over again...... As far as loudmouths, Dick Vitale is a loudmouth, i wouldn't say Bill is one, the other 40 or so are not...the point is not the being loud but what are you being loud about. plus Stephen A interrupts his own co-hosts and interviewees. he is a terrible interviewer cause he hardly listens at all except to his own voice. he says about 4 times as much as the person he interviews. that ratio should be the reverse.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I reckon ESPN decided that Stephen A. Smith's style didn't fit with their image - which is trying to be a professional, journalistic sports network. He went a little nuts when he got that show. JOurnalistic integrity means being impartial which he NEVER is, and respecting your guests, which he sometimes did............ He was like a preacher or something and if you look at their other personnel, they are all very professional and journalistic.</div> Stephen A isn't professional? That's ridiculous! He's one of the best at his job. He may not speak the same way you do, but he I think he's great at what he does. <div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">ALSO, Nation of Islam isn't sports.</div> No, but Mohammed Ali IS sports. The show was about him, and he was close to the Nation.
