<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ORLANDO - Brendan Haywood is a mountain of a man at 7 feet, 263 pounds. Yet when opposing center Dwight Howard turned into him -- lightly by Howard's standards, mind you -- Haywood's body went sprawling as if he'd been blasted with an elephant gun. Once he picked himself up off the floor, Haywood couldn't help but smile and giggle all the way back up the court at the caper he had just pulled off. With theatrics worthy of an Oscar fooling referees into thinking that Haywood had been unmercifully plowed into, they whistled Howard with a charging foul. A scene like the one between Howard and Haywood has become all too familiar in the NBA these days, to the point that the league is considering adapting legislation to ban "flopping."At times, it's as though a European soccer game has broken out what with the way players fall flailing to the floor only to get up seconds later and sprint back up the court. Coaches have been asking the league for the past few years to clean up the flopping, and referees have sought authority to hand out stiffer penalties for players faking contact in hopes of drawing offensive fouls. Finally, the league appears to be taking the increasing problem seriously. "I think all of the coaches are in agreement because it's the number one topic at all of our meetings," said Orlando Magic coach Brian Hill. "It's absolutely destroying the game with guys just falling down trying to get calls." The league is using this season as a case study trying to determine how often flopping occurs in a game. Then, there's the issue of whether or not a referee can tell the difference between a legitimate charging foul and when a player makes the contact look worse than it really is by flopping to the court. Often, they are easy to detect on the super slow-motion replays from television, but at game speed, differentiating can be tricky. "They're really difficult to determine in real time. They're meant to fool an official," NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson said earlier this season in a meeting with reporters. "Are we going to be wrong more times than not? It's tough, but we're looking at it." The NBA is considering giving referees the option of whistling players for technical fouls if they deem that a player has flopped in an attempt to get a call. FIBA, the governing body of all international basketball, already gives such latitude to its referees. Other sports such as soccer and the NHL already allow their referees to penalize players for purposefully falling in an attempt to deceive the game officals.</div> Source
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Whatever they can do to eliminate it would be great because it's gotten out of control," Rockets Head Coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "Whether it's with technical fouls, fining players after the fact by reviewing film or expulsion from the league, whatever it takes. I'm for whatever it takes to get rid of it."</div> Link Seems to be a little harsh to me. If you want flopping to stop just don't call it or call a defensive foul if it is that obvious. Imagine if I played devil's advocate and said that players should be fine for leading in with their shoulders when they make an aggressive post move. I would be laughed out of an officials meeting. Flopping is a major issue and it is on the onus of the referee to penalize the flopper by not calling the foul if the offensive player is in a position to score or call a defensive foul on the flopper. Officials for whatever reason feel compelled to reward flopping.
I agree completely with the article. Flopping is pathetic and refs should be able to hand out techs and possibly fines for flopping.
<div class="quote_poster">Iron Shiek Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Link Seems to be a little harsh to me. If you want flopping to stop just don't call it or call a defensive foul if it is that obvious. Imagine if I played devil's advocate and said that players should be fine for leading in with their shoulders when they make an aggressive post move. I would be laughed out of an officials meeting. Flopping is a major issue and it is on the onus of the referee to penalize the flopper by not calling the foul if the offensive player is in a position to score or call a defensive foul on the flopper. Officials for whatever reason feel compelled to reward flopping.</div> What are your thoughts on the league getting back to the "no-call" policy? It worked in the 80's and early 90's, the NCAA officials let the gray area plays go uncalled, especially in the Big 10. I don't understand the notion an official feels compelled to blow the whistle, when a call can go either way. If it's a neutral call, don't blow the whistle, or give both players a foul.
Well, looks like Raja Bell, Allen Iverson, Manu Ginobli & Bruce Bowen are officially out of a career now
Flopping is too subjective to penalize. It would be impossible to tell if a player was exaggerating in the majority of cases, and even if they do exaggerate it could still have been a legitimate offensive foul. What needs to happen is improved officiating. Too many refs ignore the half-circle on charges and any contact that causes a fall is an automatic whistle even if it was incidental. The players are simply taking advantage of the refs to help their team win the game. It's not the honorable thing to do, but you can hardly blame most players for taking a little fall if they know the ref is going to call it.
I'm totally on board with shape's suggestion. The easiest way to get rid of flopping is to eliminate the reward that it brings players. Once players realize that they'll be taken out of the play for no real reason, they'll have no choice but to adapt and defend properly. And, on the other side, it doesn't make it ridiculously easy for an offensive player to draw a foul (its easy enough as it is). Specifically punishing players for flopping seems to ignore the bigger picture when it comes to the problems of officiating in the NBA and I feel its likely to make the game more unbalanced.
^ The problem with that is refs are probably already told not to call fouls on flops. That simply doesn't work. It's very difficult to judge if a particular player flopped in real time. Often, it's something that has to be reviewed on tape. So, the NBA needs to have a way to review possible flops after the game and deal out fines/punishments accordingly.
Well if they are going to penalize flopping on the defensive side, shouldn't they penalize when a player flops on the offensive side trying to get a foul? IMO, this would be one of the dumbest things ever implemented.
<div class="quote_poster">Casual Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Flopping is too subjective to penalize. It would be impossible to tell if a player was exaggerating in the majority of cases, and even if they do exaggerate it could still have been a legitimate offensive foul. What needs to happen is improved officiating. Too many refs ignore the half-circle on charges and any contact that causes a fall is an automatic whistle even if it was incidental. The players are simply taking advantage of the refs to help their team win the game. It's not the honorable thing to do, but you can hardly blame most players for taking a little fall if they know the ref is going to call it.</div> <div class="quote_poster">~Fatality~ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well if they are going to penalize flopping on the defensive side, shouldn't they penalize when a player flops on the offensive side trying to get a foul? IMO, this would be one of the dumbest things ever implemented.</div> I completely agree with both of these posters and my favorite player is one of the players that people flop against the most.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^ The problem with that is refs are probably already told not to call fouls on flops. That simply doesn't work. It's very difficult to judge if a particular player flopped in real time. Often, it's something that has to be reviewed on tape. So, the NBA needs to have a way to review possible flops after the game and deal out fines/punishments accordingly.</div> But, officials still feel compelled to make a call whenever there's contact and that's what leads to flopping on both sides of the ball. I agree with handing out fines after the fact, but they can also make their jobs a lot easier by not whistling every little touch. Offensive players will start to look to score, instead of trying to convince the refs that they were fouled. And defensive players will actually try to stop their man, instead of waiting for some contact to exaggerate.
I havent watched an NBA game for awhile now. To me, I think its part of the game. Its a momentum getter for the floppers team. Its just another obstacle in the game of basketball. Like when you have a good shooter, you double team him. You have to find a way to get around the calls. Just my 2 cents
<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How about making coaches tell their own players? I bet that would help.</div> I don't think there's any way in hell Greg Poppovich will do that.
If every player reacted normally to offensive fouls by staggering back a bit or not moving at all, there would be even more trips to the foul line than the already ridiculous amount. The best solution would probably be to call the ones where the ballcarrier dips his shoulder or pushes off and let all other moderate contact go.
How are they going to decide whats a flop and what isn't? The league is really going hay-wire with these new rules, the past few seasons.
If they do want to penalize flops, they should just watch game tape afterwards and fine players that obviously flop, because telling the difference between acting and a real foul is almost impossible for the refs. The NBA could post the records of the fines too. Flopping would dissapear because you know the players dont want to see their names on the score board next to " League Leader in Flopping".
<div class="quote_poster">Pgballer17 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If they do want to penalize flops, they should just watch game tape afterwards and fine players that obviously flop, because telling the difference between acting and a real foul is almost impossible for the refs. The NBA could post the records of the fines too. Flopping would dissapear because you know the players dont want to see their names on the score board next to " League Leader in Flopping".</div> And today's list ... : Ginobili... meh long list, lets make it short; the whole SPURS. Damn, don't I hate the spurs? But yea, I agree they should punish those who do flop. Be it .. game videos or on the spot.
Hopefully this will stop Kobe from flailing his elbows into defenders faces in an effort to get a cheap foul call.
