"People there are excited to have me there," Dunleavy said. "The feeling is reciprocated. They understand basketball. They appreciate good basketball." -what good basketball has he been playing? if he played good ball, we would have no reason to trade him. give the pacers another week or so and his welcome will be worn out, and then he'll try to find someone to blame for playing "streetball".
Dunleavy is a smart basketball player and is well coached, but he has no nba skill to take matters into his own hand to lead the way for teamplay. He doesn't set the tone, either because he can't shoot, he is slow, or is weak for SF or PF. He's had some great games, but he doesn't do anything particularly well and he is inconsistent because he is not physically competitive. All he can do is flop when he is outquicked or outmuscled.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All he can do is flop when he is outquicked or outmuscled.</div> And if the league gives T's for flops, Dunleavy will have nothing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And if the league gives T's for flops, Dunleavy will have nothing.</div> Haha. At least he'll still has his hair, though I don't foresee that lasting longer than another ten years. Soon he'll be like his dad.
Dunleavy is a little better than Luke Walton and needs to find his niche. If he was on the Lakers he'd be called "the glue they're missing." If he played on the Pistons he'd be Sixth Man of the Year. He's a legitimate NBA player. Look at Radmanovic, you telling me he's better than Mike D? No way. And Mike's got better hair too. Put him on the Mavs and he becomes an all time scrapper playing with Damp and Devin Harris on the 2nd team. Harrington is an upgrade, but only in terms of scoring. Look how weak Harrington is around the rim, unbelievable. Al's got a nice shooting touch and gets some easy slams and he's got 16. But his rebounding and D? Pretty pathetic for someone 6'9". Just because Mike D was picked 3rd, everyone's got these huge expectations. That's not his fault, he did not demand to be picked 3rd, that's on St. Jean. Look at Stackhouse, he went 2nd and what's he ever done but get a max contract? Now he finally went to the Mavs and now he's a lifesaver when the games on the line. Its all about your team.
<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Put him on the Mavs and he becomes an all time scrapper playing with Damp and Devin Harris on the 2nd team.</div> I take offense to that! Dunleavy a scrapper? The guy touched his own forehead more than he ever touched loose balls. I can't remember him diving on the floor and I sure can't remember him fighting to box-out. I'm not trying to bash him, but dude is no "scrapper" lol. <div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Its all about your team.</div> So what are you saying, that because he was on the Warriors he didn't get show how good he was? He was given a starter's role when he didn't earn it, given a starter's contract when he didn't earn it, and given ample minutes when at times he should've been benched. Dunleavy had every opportunity with this team to prove he could play. So what, put Dunleavy on the Mavs and he becomes an "all time scraper?" Why wasn't he an "all time scrapper" on GS? Were Baron, JRich, Biedrins, Murphy, Pietrus and Monta not good enough to let him shine? Putting Dunleavy on a championship team won't make him any better; it'll just make it easier to hid his many weaknesses by playing him in limited reserve minutes. <div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If he played on the Pistons he'd be Sixth Man of the Year</div> Philsmith, I'm not trying to call you out, but c'mon man! 6th man of the year? How is he suddenly going to go from being an underachieving softy with a poor outside shot, to the best non-starter in the league? I just don't see it.
<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">But his rebounding and D? Pretty pathetic for someone 6'9". </div> Dude, Dunleavy is listed at 6-9 and is averaging 4.9 rebounds this year, and his D? Pretty pathetic. Harrington is listed at 6-9 and averages 6.7 rebounds this year.
There is no question that Dunleavy was blamed far more than what he deserved. However, that doesn't make him a valuable contributor either. Over years, people said Dunleavy just didn't meet the right fit. Well, he went through 3 different coaches and two different teams, but his reputation and production remained pretty much same. Even in this year... Warriors: 27 mins, 11.4 pts, 4.8 reb, 3 ast, .97 steal, 44.9% fg, 34.6% 3pts, 77% ft Pacers: 35 mins, 12.8 pts, 5.1 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.05 stl, 43.7% fg, 31.5% 3pts, 76% ft. Dunleavy is actually doing little worse in Indiana, and Pacers fans are already finding out that he just isn't a good outside shooter. If he went through that many situation changes and still remains the same, I seriously doubt that he will become a valuable member on some team all of sudden. He may not be booed in Indiana like in here. But, they won't hesitate to ship him if they can. Stackhouse was a legit 20+ pts scorer, and the reason he became valuable to Mavs is becaue Mavs have so many talents around him, and they can afford to bring him from the bench. If that type of gifted scorer can come off the bench, it's no wonder he will be a lifesaver in 2nd unit. I mean, if we can afford Carter to be our 6th man, he will be as valuable as Stackhouse for us. I just don't see that type of change from Dunleavy, since he just don't have enough tools to impact like that...
philsmith75, you're comparing apples to oranges by doing Dunleavy to Al Harrington. Dunleavy is playing more SG for the Pacers, so you have to compare him to Stephen Jackson who's been playing SG-SF (swingman) for the Warriors. Dunleavy Pacers: 35 mins, 12.8 pts, 5.1 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.05 stl, 43.7% fg, 31.5% 3pts, 76% ft. Jackson Warriors: 36.3 mins, 17.7 pts, 3.2 reb, 4.2 ast, 1.4 stl, 43.7% fg, 33.3% 3pts, 80% ft. Advantage JACKSON in every major category except rebounds. Just for giggles, I did a comparison of Troy Murphy to Al Harrington. Murphy Pacers: 27.3 mins, 10.1 pts, 7.1 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.5 stl, 45% fg, 40% 3pts, 71% ft. Harrington Warriors: 36 mins, 18.7 pts, 7.3 reb, 2.8 ast, 1.1 stl, 44% fg, 41.7% 3pts, 65% ft. Advantage HARRINGTON even in rebounding. The only area where he's worse is free throws. Dammnit, why do players become worse free throw shooters when they arrive in Golden State??? Both AL's and Jax's numbers are lower than when they were with Indy. BOTTOM LINE: On top of this, we beat the Pacers in a game at Indiana this year. Thus, we ripped off the Pacers in trade for this year for sure!!!!1111!!!!1111 .
Wow. Look at the pent up knives. Mike D, is he soft? Only if you judge purely on whether or not he gives hard fouls and does not run over people. Look at his improvement the past 4 years, he played hard and fought for position and rebounds. Look at how guys like Bibby and Iverson play D, you telling me they're any tougher? Yeah I pushed Mike D's case a little beyond what it is probably but I still think his contributions are more valuable on a better team. I'm not saying the trade was bad, I think the team is better now. But that's not Dunleavy's fault, its the fault of the guys who put the team together (and I love Mully.) Jackson is a welcome addition and fun to watch because he hits big shots and has confidence (wish he wouldn't dribble so much though).
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Just for giggles, I did a comparison of Troy Murphy to Al Harrington. Murphy Pacers: 27.3 mins, 10.1 pts, 7.1 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.5 stl, 45% fg, 40% 3pts, 71% ft. Harrington Warriors: 36 mins, 18.7 pts, 7.3 reb, 2.8 ast, 1.1 stl, 44% fg, 41.7% 3pts, 65% ft. Advantage HARRINGTON even in rebounding. The only area where he's worse is free throws. Dammnit, why do players become worse free throw shooters when they arrive in Golden State??? Both AL's and Jax's numbers are lower than when they were with Indy.</div> Let's see i prorated Murphy's numbers to match the 36mins Harrington plays and came up with these: Murphy Pacers: 13.3 pts, 9.36 reb, 2.11 ast, 0.66 stl, 45% fg, 40% 3pts, 71% ft. A little bit of an improvement, but still ways off.
Wow good stuff guys. I for one like to hear all sides of where we stand on the Dunleavy issue. I think it's interesting to hear what kinds of things we expect to see in any kind of player, in any position. I think Dunleavy Jr. is a good team player for certain kinds of games. In college he was a consensus top 3 pick with a legit outside threat and inside threat on Duke's team. In the nba, he's probably a 2nd round or late first round because the speed and strength of the nba is very demanding. Also, he doesn't fit a true position (which is no problem if he didn't have so many weaknesses). His versatility as a big player that can play like a guard was better served in college where many players weren't that big compared to him, nor were there superior ballhandlers or guys his size that had top flight footspeed or power to their games. Dunleavy's strengths are relative to the competition he played in, and to me there were warning signs where he would not make the adjustment to the nba if his body didn't go through massive changes (speed, strength) or he didn't improve his jumpshot. I bet Dunleavy could beat my ass running down the floor easily, but in the nba he's slow. It's all relative and I think he's relatively one of the poorer starting players compared to any other starting nba forward. I tend to agree with Philsmith and Kwan that Dunleavy is unfairly blamed for the Warriors problems (which are never simple to explain in one paragraph) and he is better served on a team with a slower-paced, well rounded, star powered inside and outside game like Duke had. But I was really demanding that we took a chance on a big man with some skill because Dunleavy's upside to me was just so... narrow. He would never be a star, he wouldn't even be defensive or aggressive minded like Shane Battier. It turns out neither Chris Wilcox, Nene, or Tskitishvilli were that great either. Only Amare was hot stuff but he had red flags. Caron Butler was also hot stuff right now, but he had red flags and we didn't need another wing because of Jamison... but then again why did we pick Dunleavy? Were people hoping his unique skill type for his size would create a new position far from prototypical small forwards set by Elgin Baylor and Julius Irving? How could a consensus full of draftnicks and nba executives pick this guy when the biggest risk is he won't be any better than he was in college because his nba upside was an illusion if he couldn't get really strong or become a good shooter. But hey 2002 had many bad players in the first round that are no longer in the nba... And there was no surefire big man answer except for what went at #9.
Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading. Dunleavy is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever seen on a Warriors team, and there's been a lot of them. Would he look nearly as bad if he were getting paid $1 million a year and playing 20 minutes a night? No. But still, I can't put into strong enough words how much I despise his pansyass, lead-footed, Chardonnay-sipping game. Jackson and Harrington have some problems but it's still SOOOO refreshing to see them out there rather than Dun and Murph. Bye bye Mike!
<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading. Dunleavy is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever seen on a Warriors team, and there's been a lot of them. Would he look nearly as bad if he were getting paid $1 million a year and playing 20 minutes a night? No. But still, I can't put into strong enough words how much I despise his pansyass, lead-footed, Chardonnay-sipping game. Jackson and Harrington have some problems but it's still SOOOO refreshing to see them out there rather than Dun and Murph. Bye bye Mike!</div> Oh yeah, he was horrible for us in the last two years. I wouldn't even give the guy a chance in his sophmore and 3rd year (which I think he was better). I still had bad emotion tied to what our basic expectations of him were after those first three years and he signed big early money. He was pretty bad for us after signing the deal...
<div class="quote_poster">openglfx Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Let's see i prorated Murphy's numbers to match the 36mins Harrington plays and came up with these: Murphy Pacers: 13.3 pts, 9.36 reb, 2.11 ast, 0.66 stl, 45% fg, 40% 3pts, 71% ft. A little bit of an improvement, but still ways off.</div> I'm not going to double check because I'm sure it's right. Good idea factoring in minutes because per game stats doesn't really give an idea what type of role they're playing. I bet coaches are telling these players to do specific stuff, but if the players have free reign, I'm sure Murphy and AH will do whatever it takes to pad their stats in the ways they know how.
<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mike D, is he soft? Only if you judge purely on whether or not he gives hard fouls and does not run over people.</div> That's not how I judge toughness in the league. Anyone can give a hard foul -- that doesn't make you soft or tough. To me, toughness is more mental than anything. D-Wade is one of the toughest players in the game. He perseveres. He makes plays even when the entire defense knows what's coming. He doesn't let the pressure get to him. He goes straight to the rim with the intent to FINSISH STRONG every time he goes. He loves contact. He's tiny by NBA standards, yet he doesn't get intimidated by anybody. He tries to dunk over 7 footers. He never slows down, going 100% the whole time. He doesn't seem to even get tired. When you look at his face, you see a leader, a winner, a guy who knows he's about to take over the game. By contrast, when I look at Dunleavy's face, I see a drunken donkey who forgot where he left his horseshoes. The only time he's EVER shown any heart on the court was staged -- that one time he ripped off his jersey, I'm willing to bet his PR people came to him that week and told him he needed to do that to prove his doubters wrong. It just looked so contrived and fake and occurred right around the time there was talk about his lack of emotion and heart on the court. The funniest part about that was he wasn't even "fired up" about a confrontation with an actual player -- he was "raising up" and getting in the face of a little old referee, lol, and then he rips off his jersey like he's superman. I didn't see him doing that all those times he took hard fouls or got knocked on his ass by actual players who were 6 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter than him. Mental toughness is probably the most important trait to suceed in the NBA. It starts in the mind and transcends through your body. Without it, well, you're going to get eaten alive. Dunleavy is so soft. It's not his fault. And it doesn't mean he can't play in the NBA. It just mean he can never excel in the NBA. But regardless, to tell me that he'd be an "all time scrapper" on Dallas or "6th man of the year" on Detroit -- well, that's just crazy, IMO!
The biggest problem I had with Dunleavy is that he simply never was able to hit a constant jumper. There is not much he can do with the strength or speed, because he wasn't born with those. But, anybody can develop is a reliable jumper. Throughout the league, there are tons of players, who entered the league with range of 5', eventually develop a reliable jumper throughout his career. And, those players usually have something else to rely on to begin with, such as defense, post up plays, or rebounding. So jumper becomes nice addition to their career. Dunleavy didn't have anything to rely on, so Dunleavy should have developed a consistant jumper throughout his career. Instead, his jumper never developed from his rookie year, and if he didn't go to the hole occassionally, his shooting % would have hovered below 40%. He might not deserve to be booed after he missed a single jumper. But, he didn't help his situation by barely improving his skills, if any, in last five years. Good thing Mullin was able to dump both Dunleavy and Murphy for rather nice package in return. But, what in the world was he smoking when he signed that contract?
The only thing i can figure is that Mullin thought Dunleavy would bust-out and that in a year from that deal it would actually be considered a bargain. If Dunleavy became 20pts 7rbs 4ast guy, that deal would have ended up looking great and Mully would be considerd genius for signing him early. But I doubt anyone in their right mind would say Dunleavy was poised for a break-out year, especially when it turned into a break-down year for 'ol MDJ.
Pacers have lost 8 in a row and are now in the 7th playoff spot in the east with NY (8) and Orlando (9) a game back of them. They're playing @ Cleveland tomorrow on the second game of a back to back and then another back to back @ Min and vs. Washington. How crazy would it be if we made the playoffs and they didn't?
