<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm just saying if we're talking about someone being "slightly" behind MJ then I'm going to need that guy to make it out of the 1st round in the "prime" of his career. (no excuses)</div> Well then that's bull**** because if you give Kobe, or whoever else you're trying to compare, the Atlanta Hawks roster, then obviously they won't make it out of the first round in the Western Conference playoffs. Is that really their faults that everyone around them sucks?
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Overall weaker???, no I didn't say that, I said that the SG/SF position is probably better, but player for player and team for team the 90's was better. I just don't see Kobe or the Lakers winning a title within the next 2 or 3 years (when Kobe will still be in his prime) which is why when it's all said and done with Kobe won't be in the same league as a Jordan.</div> The contenders in the 90's were weaker than the 80's. Hell, this era matches up better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> dude Shaq was the man before Kobe came along, yes he had help, but throw Shaq in his prime on any team and we have a title contender on our hands. Put Shaq in his prime (or any other player in my top 10) on this current Laker team and I guarantee you they're getting out of the first round.</div> Dude, Kobe was an eighteen year old, of course Shaq is going to get his shots first. Throw Shaq in his prime on the Heat and Wade will get off less shots. So would Jordan. That's a fact. <div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm just saying if we're talking about someone being "slightly" behind MJ then I'm going to need that guy to make it out of the 1st round in the "prime" of his career. (no excuses)</div> But you're making it seem like Kobe has played against a 42-40 team in the first round and hasn't gotten past them. That's not true. When Jordan was dropping 37 or 35 a night in the early 80's, he did jack in the playoffs. That's blind criticism.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> dude Shaq was the man before Kobe came along, yes he had help, but throw Shaq in his prime on any team and we have a title contender on our hands. Put Shaq in his prime (or any other player in my top 10) on this current Laker team and I guarantee you they're getting out of the first round.</div> yo, you don't know what we're dealing with. Assuming we'll face the Spurs in this upcoming playoff, do you think Shaq or any guys in your top 10 lists can beat the mighty Spurs who already have a hall of famer on their team in Tim Duncan? What you say is just pure comedy...
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't remember if Jordan got his team out of the first round before Pippen came along. Maybe you should enlighten me on that?</div> He got to the second round in Pippen's rookie year. Pippen wasn't close to being a great player then. Following the same procedure for comparing supporting casts as I did with Wade and Duncan, Jordan's teammates had a 12.4 PER that season and Kobe's teammates this year have a 13.6 PER.
The article states that Kobe's team sucks, but it sucks because of Kobe, not independently of his will...
Stop hatin. MJ and Kobe played in different era's. In today's game, NOBODY will get 6rings again. Just like nobody will score 100pts again like Wilt. What you aren't factoring in is the game has changed. Talent-wise, Kobe's the most skilled shooting guard in the history of the NBA. There aren't any SG's that can do the things he's done. The ONLY factor that MJ has over Kobe is the MENTAL aspect of it all. Not to say Kobe isn't focused. But MJ knew how to make teammates love him. Therefore, they played 10X harder for him. Kobe needs to learn how to push Odom into bein great, or challenge Smush to be more consistent. Bottomline, some of you are downplaying how inconsisent the Lakers really are. Outside of Kobe, EVERYBODY on that damn team is inconsistent. There is NO WAY you can argue that the Lakers should "automatically" get past the first round. Even MJ couldn't make that team a contender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is NO WAY you can argue that the Lakers should "automatically" get past the first round. </div> I disagree, lets just say I think they should at least be able to position themselves to the point where they won't have to face one of the west toughest teams in the first round....it's been 3 years now.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The contenders in the 90's were weaker than the 80's. Hell, this era matches up better. </div> I thought you were talking about the competition now compared to the 90's. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, Kobe was an eighteen year old, of course Shaq is going to get his shots first. Throw Shaq in his prime on the Heat and Wade will get off less shots. So would Jordan. That's a fact. </div> this isn't about taking less shots or about Wade, this about you saying that MJ is only "slightly" better than Kobe, and what I said is that any player in the top 10 that I listed in their "primes" (which Kobe is in) would get this Laker team out of the first round given 2 or 3 years, meaning Kobe is still far away from being mentioned in the same breath as the men that I listed (and that same thing goes for anyone in the game now except Duncan and Shaq).
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, lets just say I think they should at least be able to position themselves to the point where they won't have to face one of the west toughest teams in the first round....it's been 3 years now....</div> Do you even realize how tough it is to be in the Western Conference? The top 3 seats already got anchor by Mavs, Suns, and Spurs. I'm assuming the positions that you talking about is the 4th and 5th which is a potential seat that can advance to the 2nd round, and that what the Lakers were battling before the all injuries were taken place. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">this isn't about taking less shots or about Wade, this about you saying that MJ is only "slightly" better than Kobe, and what I said is that any player in the top 10 that I listed in their "primes" (which Kobe is in) would get this Laker team out of the first round given 2 or 3 years, meaning Kobe is still far away from being mentioned in the same breath as the men that I listed (and that same thing goes for anyone in the game now except Duncan and Shaq).</div> MJ or any one of your top 10, couldn't held this team together with the type of injuries the Lakers suffered this season. You don't win if your organization haven't put together enough talents to compete in the West man....get serious please! Nobody said Kobe is better than Jordan, certainly not statistics or accomplishments. MJ was the king of the beasts in that reguard. What we argue here is Kobe's SKILL, his TALENT ON THE COURT, is at the level of MJ. Tell me the things MJ does that Kobe can't? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He got to the second round in Pippen's rookie year. Pippen wasn't close to being a great player then. Following the same procedure for comparing supporting casts as I did with Wade and Duncan, Jordan's teammates had a 12.4 PER that season and Kobe's teammates this year have a 13.6 PER.</div> I hope you do realized that this statistics have nothing to do with the conference they are in. As much as everyone claimed the 90s were better, the eastern conference in jordan era wasn't as good as the western conference now. I'm amazed how people easily forget that if it wasn't for 1 rebound away, there weren't be any doubt that Kobe can took this team out of the 1st round. just woww man...
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I hope you do realized that this statistics have nothing to do with the conference they are in. As much as everyone claimed the 90s were better, the eastern conference in jordan era wasn't as good as the western conference now. I'm amazed how people easily forget that if it wasn't for 1 rebound away, there weren't be any doubt that Kobe can took this team out of the 1st round. just woww man...[ </div> The statistics indicate that Jordan didn't get a lot of help in the late 80s. You're probably right that the West is tougher now than the East back then. But the fact remains, Jordan's accomplishments as a primary leader of his team in the playoffs far exceed what Kobe has done thus far in his career. Jordan not only put up better numbers consistently season to season, he also carried his team further. So I just don't get this notion that Kobe has "proven" that he could do whatever Jordan did. In a single game or a stretch of a few games, sure. But over the course of a season/playoffs (not to mention over a span of multiple seasons/playoffs)? Not at all.
I don't think Kobe is better than Jordan by any means, but it's definetly close. Kobe is probably the closest player to Jordan since Jordan himself
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The statistics indicate that Jordan didn't get a lot of help in the late 80s. You're probably right that the West is tougher now than the East back then. But the fact remains, Jordan's accomplishments as a primary leader of his team in the playoffs far exceed what Kobe has done thus far in his career. Jordan not only put up better numbers consistently season to season, he also carried his team further. So I just don't get this notion that Kobe has "proven" that he could do whatever Jordan did. In a single game or a stretch of a few games, sure. But over the course of a season/playoffs (not to mention over a span of multiple seasons/playoffs)? Not at all.</div> *ding ding ding*
I don't see what all the fuss is about, if you guys want to look at the scoring check em both out at http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_jordan Jordan clearly owns Kobe the stats don't lie ^^^
<div class="quote_poster">Detroit Madness Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see what all the fuss is about, if you guys want to look at the scoring check em both out at http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_jordan Jordan clearly owns Kobe the stats don't lie ^^^</div> Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant
Are you guys FU!@#!! kidding me? You dare compare those players to Michael Jordan? It is because of Michael Jordan why those players you mentioned are even here. You guys have jumpers, shot selections, lack of competition as your argument?! Check your facts, watch his games and learn about his history before you people make this outrageous, ridiculous, disrespectful statements that so and so is better than Mr. Jordan. Nobody, and I mean nobody from the players you mentioned can even come close to Michael Jordan in his prime. Nobody!
<div class="quote_poster">AMS_ice Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Are you guys FU!@#!! kidding me? You dare compare those players to Michael Jordan? It is because of Michael Jordan why those players you mentioned are even here. You guys have jumpers, shot selections, lack of competition as your argument?! Check your facts, watch his games and learn about his history before you people make this outrageous, ridiculous, disrespectful statements that so and so is better than Mr. Jordan. Nobody, and I mean nobody from the players you mentioned can even come close to Michael Jordan in his prime. Nobody!</div> I think Kobe is pretty close, but he's not better than Jordan
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Kobe is pretty close, but he's not better than Jordan</div> Kobe is no Jordan. But like you said if there is somebody who can come close to Jordan, it's Kobe. Fact is, he's the best player in the NBA right now. I've said this a number of times, I used to dislike Kobe and thought of him as a Jordan rip-off. Like I said on another thread, Kobe is the best today. Not Lebron, not Wade, definitely not <u>"AGENT EGO"</u> himself, Arenas (he doesn't even belong in the same sentence with the other players I mentioned) and please... certainly not Steve Nash. As good as a player he is, Nash didn't deserve both his MVP awards. Kobe got robbed last season. And that's the truth.
<div class="quote_poster">AMS_ice Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As good as a player he is, Nash didn't deserve both his MVP awards. Kobe got robbed last season. And that's the truth.</div> We all know that Kobe had some great individual accolades last year but he was missing the criteria that pretty much every MVP winner in the last twenty years had: being on a team that is a threat to go at least somewhat deep in the playoffs and coming out of the regular season with a decent record. The Lakers being in 7th spot in the west didn't exactly qualify him for that list. I'm not saying Nash deserved the 2nd MVP but Kobe certainly doesn't meet the criteria of the others who have traditionally won the award.
<div class="quote_poster">Detroit Madness Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://www.nba.com/fantasy/features/ltf_070330.html</div> that article is on point imo....
Kobe just needs a big hoop earring on his ear like Mike and Pippen wore during their championship runs. Then he'll be the ish!!!
