<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Never said bad defense is only attributable to one player. Certainly Kirk Snyder and Luther Head have their share of breakdowns on defense. It's about putting a group out there that will minimize mistakes and improve your overall chances of winning. We were playing well, for the most part, throughout March, so Bonzi wasn't added to the rotation. After more recent slipups, Bonzi was given a chance to get himself back in, but he quit because he wasn't happy with his play/role. This is the type of player you wanted on the team, remember? Selfish, mentally unstable. Our team has too many good guys, we need more of those types of players, right? Well, this is the result.</div> You blamed a bad stretch of defense on one player. That tells me that you never really liked Bonzi on the team. That belief is the SAME belief JVG had on Bonzi. Bonzi was NEVER gonna get a real chance to play. The margin of error was too thin. He was a late signee, didnt go thru training camp, coming off injury, and needed ample time to find his place on this team. JVG wasn't willing to give him the time he needed to be a significant factor. Even when Bonzi attempted to talk to JVG, JVG refused to listen. Bonzi wasn't selfish or unstable, he just wanted to be treated fairly. But he wasn't. JVG had a personal grudge against Bonzi and Bonzi knew it, which led to him leaving the team. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're assuming that Bonzi was forced to stay away from the team or he was forced to be deactivated. What makes you think he wasn't given the choice whether to be around the team, and decided on his own not to? He proved at the end that he wasn't eager to be around just to give the team company. If he wasn't contributing significantly on the court, I don't think Bonzi wanted anything to do with the Rockets, and that's why he quit. Apparently you have a different theory on how things went down. Swell, nothing more to discuss.</div> Ur just excusing everything that happened in between. Bonzi's ego was hurt, and he felt like he couldn't prove himself to JVG. Which I can understand, because JVG is a prick. Every athlete we've signed in the last three years has left here angry. If we're currently one piece away from a championship, that piece will not come under JVG. He's NEVER used our bench and alwayz puts the burdeon on our superstars to win. The role players are normally old, washed up and X-Knick players. That was Bonzi's biggest setback, that he hasn't ever played for the Knicks. <div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">R4L, you never give up. I'll give you a brief post, but look at my previous post up there for more. I'm just wonder, what has Bonzi done that's so great? He's been largely ineffective all year, even when given the chance. The things you praise him for are hardly reasons to praise him. You claim he's got a great post game. It may be true, but much like Q-Rich, he doesn't use it. He'd rather stand on the perimeter and jack up jumpers. And even with that, his range is limited. He's never been a good three point shooter and his midrange game is decent at best. You claim he's good at getting to the foul line, and that's hardly true. He averages less than 3 attempts per game for his career and his FT% is right around 70%, so even when he does get to the line, he's not very good there. As for defense, he's hardly good at that as well. He's never been a great defender and he never will be. And lastly, Bonzi is hardly an athletic player. He doesn't get great elevation anymore (due to the fact he's overweight and still largely out of shape), his stamina isn't that great nor has it ever been, etc. I'm just wondering when you'll finally admit you're wrong and stop beating a dead horse with all your lame excuses.</div> A couple things. Bonzi is a very solid player. He's been solid everywhere he's played. So if ur attempting to say he's not, then ur obviously dellusional. Contrary to what you stated, he's great at getting to the free throw line and has great post game. Looking at our team, we desperatley need a 3rd option and we're last in the league at free throws. We could REALLY use Bonzi. But JVG feels otherwise, just as he felt with Jim Jackson, Stromile Swift & Derek Anderson. The cycle never stops. The truth is we'll NEVER have a consistent 3rd option under JVG because Tmac & Yao do 98% of the creating and our role players getting the leftovers. We'll never be like Dallas, San Antonio or Phoenix, all who have multiple threats on offense. Unless we make a coachig change. I'll admit that
Man time and time again Rock, 55%. You can go on and on about his 70% for his career, but 70% is a bad percentage too for a guard. Fact is, he's had ample opportunites at the stripe this season and 55% has been the end result. He didn't and wasn't going to help us at the line. And Bonzi got 21 minutes of playing time every game. How much more time does he need to prove himself? Had he played well, he'll have gotten more minutes; simple as that. Mutombo gets 17 minutes a game and you have to admit that he gets a real chance to play. What do you consider a real chance to play? 40 minutes?
<div class="quote_poster">Hotard Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4704480.html I never post...just watch... So will this end the Bonzi debates? Sweet Jebus I hope so. Edit: for link</div> ...damnit We'll know if it's JVG after the playoffs are over...if not, definately after 20 games into next season. I wonder if someone will offer Bonzi the full MLE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Every athlete we've signed in the last three years has left here angry. If we're currently one piece away from a championship, that piece will not come under JVG. He's NEVER used our bench and alwayz puts the burdeon on our superstars to win. The role players are normally old, washed up and X-Knick players. That was Bonzi's biggest setback, that he hasn't ever played for the Knicks.</div> Who are the old, washed up, and/or X-knick players on the current team? The adjectives "old" and "washed up" actually describe Bonzi Wells more than they do Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, Luther Head, or Kirk Snyder. JVG has used our bench. He just hasn't used the players you were hyping up in the beginning of the season. He doesn't believe in playing 10-man rotations. You can't name one good team in this league that does that. Bonzi's ego was hurt, clearly. But so was yours, and that's why you want to throw all the blame towards the coach.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who are the old, washed up, and/or X-knick players on the current team? The adjectives "old" and "washed up" actually describe Bonzi Wells more than they do Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, Luther Head, or Kirk Snyder. </div> Bonzi is only barely in his 30's and far from washed up. My point was JVG has previously gave minutes to Mark Jackson, Rod Strickland, Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley & Mark Brunson. If he can manage to work them into the rotation, why couldn't he atleast have activated a healthy Bonzi? <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">JVG has used our bench. He just hasn't used the players you were hyping up in the beginning of the season. He doesn't believe in playing 10-man rotations. You can't name one good team in this league that does that. Bonzi's ego was hurt, clearly. But so was yours, and that's why you want to throw all the blame towards the coach.</div> Ego hurt? That's the funniest thing you've said all season. It's a really a double edged sword for JVG. I'm sure he got satisfaction by running off Bonzi. He didn't like him, and wasn't ever gonna give him time to learn the system. But he'll find out (as will you) that there are serious holes in his current 8-man rotation. First off, our jumpshooting will only take us so far, that's why Carol Dawson actually signed Bonzi in the first place. If god forbid Tmac has an off series against Utah in the playoffs, and we lose, JVG will not have a job next season. So either way those silly mind games will come back to haunt JVG
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">A couple things. Bonzi is a very solid player. He's been solid everywhere he's played. So if ur attempting to say he's not, then ur obviously dellusional. Contrary to what you stated, he's great at getting to the free throw line and has great post game. Looking at our team, we desperatley need a 3rd option and we're last in the league at free throws. We could REALLY use Bonzi. But JVG feels otherwise, just as he felt with Jim Jackson, Stromile Swift & Derek Anderson. The cycle never stops. The truth is we'll NEVER have a consistent 3rd option under JVG because Tmac & Yao do 98% of the creating and our role players getting the leftovers. We'll never be like Dallas, San Antonio or Phoenix, all who have multiple threats on offense. Unless we make a coachig change. I'll admit that</div>How is Bonzi good at getting to the line? Contrary to what you say, stats say he's not. He's never gotten to the line often, as noted by his 2.9 career attempts per game. And I'm not saying he's not a solid player, I'm simply saying that he's not as great as you think he is. His post game may be solid, but again, he doesn't use it. If he did, he'd actually be getting to the line more than what he does, it's pretty simple. He far too often settles for the midrange jump shot, which he's only average at. And just a thought, you do have a rather consistent third guy. His name is Shane Battier. He's put together an extremely solid season for you guys and has proven that he can score when needed.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Ego hurt? That's the funniest thing you've said all season. It's a really a double edged sword for JVG. I'm sure he got satisfaction by running off Bonzi. He didn't like him, and wasn't ever gonna give him time to learn the system. But he'll find out (as will you) that there are serious holes in his current 8-man rotation. First off, our jumpshooting will only take us so far, that's why Carol Dawson actually signed Bonzi in the first place. If god forbid Tmac has an off series against Utah in the playoffs, and we lose, JVG will not have a job next season. So either way those silly mind games will come back to haunt JVG</div> I think it's funny how you keep complaining about us relying on the 3-point shot. Apparently you don't remember how we won our championships. We were 23rd out of 25 teams in free throw attempts and 1st in three point attempts in both of our championship seasons. I know very well there are holes in our roster. I wasn't the one predicting we'd roll to the Finals (that was you, remember?). I just don't think we'd be much improved with Bonzi integrated in there. I think he could add in some areas, but the change in the rotation would subtract in other areas. And whether Bonzi plays or not, if T-Mac doesn't have a good series we probably are not going to beat Utah. Bonzi doesn't come close to replacing what McGrady gives us.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How is Bonzi good at getting to the line? Contrary to what you say, stats say he's not. He's never gotten to the line often, as noted by his 2.9 career attempts per game. And I'm not saying he's not a solid player, I'm simply saying that he's not as great as you think he is. His post game may be solid, but again, he doesn't use it. If he did, he'd actually be getting to the line more than what he does, it's pretty simple. He far too often settles for the midrange jump shot, which he's only average at. And just a thought, you do have a rather consistent third guy. His name is Shane Battier. He's put together an extremely solid season for you guys and has proven that he can score when needed.</div> Bonzi's game was another option on offense. By him posting up, he was gonna get to the free throw line eventually. When Tmac's not hitting, and Yao's struggling, it's nice to have another low post option. I've never said Bonzi was great. But he would've been great addition to a team lookin for another consistent 3rd option. If you think Battier is our 3rd option, then you obviously don't watch the Rockets. Battier is a spot up shooter, not a scorer. I don't know why you'd enter a debate without during ur homework.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi's game was another option on offense. By him posting up, he was gonna get to the free throw line eventually. When Tmac's not hitting, and Yao's struggling, it's nice to have another low post option. I've never said Bonzi was great. But he would've been great addition to a team lookin for another consistent 3rd option. If you think Battier is our 3rd option, then you obviously don't watch the Rockets. Battier is a spot up shooter, not a scorer. I don't know why you'd enter a debate without during ur homework.</div> Apparently neither do you. Sorry you have no business making a statement about "doing YOUR homework". Since you rarely ever use stats and the basis for all your opinions are backed up with more opinions. Your concept of "doing ur homework" is listening to what Bill Worrel and Matt Bullard says. Never once did i see you use any sort of fact to back up any sort of argument you have made. You say Bonzi is a great low post scoring option. Several problems. He is very adept at losing the ball when hes at the low post. He is a horrible free-hrow shooter this season (something you knock Chuck Hayes for, yet you overlook it on Bonzi). He is usually left open when hes at midrange and he can't convert those. You even overlooked the fact that the other Rockets produced while coming off the injury, yet somehow I guess a groin injury is much harder to overcome a back injury, broken leg, broken hand, hyperextended knee (which somehow excuses him from playing poorly THE WHOLE SEASON).
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Apparently neither do you. Sorry you have no business making a statement about "doing YOUR homework". Since you rarely ever use stats and the basis for all your opinions are backed up with more opinions. Your concept of "doing ur homework" is listening to what Bill Worrel and Matt Bullard says. Never once did i see you use any sort of fact to back up any sort of argument you have made.</div> I make a statement. PPl like you ridicule it, only to have Bill Worrell or Matt Bullard say the same thing I said. So Who knows more about the Rockets, Bill Worrel or Foo82? Moving along <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You say Bonzi is a great low post scoring option. Several problems. He is very adept at losing the ball when hes at the low post. He is a horrible free-hrow shooter this season (something you knock Chuck Hayes for, yet you overlook it on Bonzi). He is usually left open when hes at midrange and he can't convert those.</div> ^^^^^Translation: Bonzi had a problem with his turnovers in the couple games JVG decided to play him. Is that common with a player who's joining a new team, new system & new players? Yes. Sometimes it'll take a player a whole half a season to adjust to a new team. Obcourse you won't EVER mention this with Bonzi, [red]no personal attacks allowed[/red] <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You even overlooked the fact that the other Rockets produced while coming off the injury, yet somehow I guess a groin injury is much harder to overcome a back injury, broken leg, broken hand, hyperextended knee (which somehow excuses him from playing poorly THE WHOLE SEASON).</div> Any person with any basketball IQ knows injuries differ. Different players heal quicker from different injuries. How can a player play poorly the "whole season" when the coach only played him about 30 games? [red]personal attack edited[/red] I'm not too surprised
[red]Warning: If you guys can't have a debate without personal attacks, I'll be forced to close this thread and hand out infractions. Drop the flaming and focus on the issue at hand.~Locke[/red]
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi's game was another option on offense. By him posting up, he was gonna get to the free throw line eventually. When Tmac's not hitting, and Yao's struggling, it's nice to have another low post option. I've never said Bonzi was great. But he would've been great addition to a team lookin for another consistent 3rd option. If you think Battier is our 3rd option, then you obviously don't watch the Rockets. Battier is a spot up shooter, not a scorer. I don't know why you'd enter a debate without during ur homework.</div>Maybe you should do your homework actually. First and foremost, way to go back on what you've been saying. Pretty much all season you've praised the ground Bonzi has walked on, acting like he could do no wrong. Now it almost sounds like you're somewhat backing down from that statement. But anyways, beyond this. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4Life:</div><div class="quote_post"> ^^^^^Translation: Bonzi had a problem with his turnovers in the couple games JVG decided to play him. Is that common with a player who's joining a new team, new system & new players? Yes. Sometimes it'll take a player a whole half a season to adjust to a new team. Obcourse you won't EVER mention this with Bonzi, no personal attacks allowed</div>So speaking of doing homework, here's a correction for you. You think Bonzi has only had TO issues a couple games? Hmm....that's interesting. If you actually take a look at his career stats, you'd see it's not just JVG and his system. It's Bonzi himself. Bonzi averages 2.2 turnovers per game for his career while only averaging about 26 minutes per game. If you throw that into a per 48 average, he's getting over 4 turnovers per game. Hell, this year alone he averages 2 per game in just 21 minutes. So, despite what you think, it's not just a recent happening, he's been doing it his entire career. And just a thought, you can't blame adjustment for turnovers really. I can understand intially, but if you're still having TO problems after half a season, you need to figure something out. TO problems can't always be blamed on the system, it's part bad decision on a lot of TOs. But wait, I forgot, Bonzi doesn't makes mistakes in your world, and his getting benched was because JVG doesn't like him. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">Any person with any basketball IQ knows injuries differ. Different players heal quicker from different injuries. How can a player play poorly the "whole season" when the coach only played him about 30 games? personal attack edited I'm not too surprised</div>It seems like you're stating the argument for him here. If a player is playing poorly, you'll typically not play. That's pretty much what it boils down to with Bonzi. He wasn't effective, plain and simple. Why mess with a rotation by putting an ineffective player in the rotation? Doesn't make sense to me.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe you should do your homework actually. First and foremost, way to go back on what you've been saying. Pretty much all season you've praised the ground Bonzi has walked on, acting like he could do no wrong. Now it almost sounds like you're somewhat backing down from that statement. But anyways, beyond this.</div> No I haven't. To YOU maybe. You don't watch the Rocket as much as a Rocket fan does, so you can't appreciate what he could've brought to the team (when healthy). The other problem with most of you is you let Bonzi's previous experiences dictate ur opinion on him as a Rocket. You guyz already had built in excuses on why Bonzi wasn't playing. That shows me you weren't gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. <div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So speaking of doing homework, here's a correction for you. You think Bonzi has only had TO issues a couple games? Hmm....that's interesting. If you actually take a look at his career stats, you'd see it's not just JVG and his system. It's Bonzi himself. Bonzi averages 2.2 turnovers per game for his career while only averaging about 26 minutes per game. If you throw that into a per 48 average, he's getting over 4 turnovers per game. Hell, this year alone he averages 2 per game in just 21 minutes. So, despite what you think, it's not just a recent happening, he's been doing it his entire career. And just a thought, you can't blame adjustment for turnovers really. I can understand intially, but if you're still having TO problems after half a season, you need to figure something out. TO problems can't always be blamed on the system, it's part bad decision on a lot of TOs. But wait, I forgot, Bonzi doesn't makes mistakes in your world, and his getting benched was because JVG doesn't like him.</div> I think you guys get a kick outta exaggerating Rock4life's words. All I stated this season is our team could really use a Bonzi Wells. We already let go of Jim Jackson, Derek Anderson, Stromile Swift & now Bonzi's the latest Free Agent to come here empty handed. Eventually JVG's gonna have to be held accountable. Especially when he's recruited the likes of Charles Oakley, Clarence Weatherspoon, Charlie Ward, Mark Brunson & Mark Jackson. All of which never had a problem seeing the court as a Rocket. If Mark Brunson can get playin time as a Rocket, so can Bonzi. No excuses......... If you actually watched the games earlier, you'd of noticed the TO's Bonzi had were obviously from him adjusting to the system. <div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It seems like you're stating the argument for him here. If a player is playing poorly, you'll typically not play. That's pretty much what it boils down to with Bonzi. He wasn't effective, plain and simple. Why mess with a rotation by putting an ineffective player in the rotation? Doesn't make sense to me.</div> There were stretches where Rafer was highly ineffective, should he had been deactivated too? Theres no sense of balance in ur comments. Ur hatred for Bonzi becomes more evident the more you type.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No I haven't. To YOU maybe. You don't watch the Rocket as much as a Rocket fan does, so you can't appreciate what he could've brought to the team (when healthy). The other problem with most of you is you let Bonzi's previous experiences dictate ur opinion on him as a Rocket. You guyz already had built in excuses on why Bonzi wasn't playing. That shows me you weren't gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.</div>It's not just his previous expericene, it's this year too. First and foremost, lets go to the offseason. He said no to the Kings $30+mil offer because he thought he was worth more than that. Than he pouted all offseason about how he wanted more money and than had to take a paycut and play for the Rockets. Firstly, that's piss poor attitude right there. Not many people in his position would have turned down that offer from the Kings. He thought he was worth more than what he was getting, when in actuality, that's not the case. Furthermore, while all this is going on, he's sitting at home doing nothing. He's not trying to stay in shape in any way shape or form at all. Then when he finally did get a contract, he came into training camp what, some 40lbs overweight and out of shape beyond belief. And why? Who really knows. Now, to the season. He's never really shown a good attitude all year. He's complained about lack of playing time when he wasn't getting any. When he finally got some, he didn't do anything. He was highly ineffective in every way possible. His defense was pathetic (much like it's been most of his career), his offense was limited to the occasional post up and an inconsistent mid-range jump shot, and he was turning the ball over more than a person only getting 21mpg should. Oh, did I mention his piss-poor FT%? Now, we go to the most recent incident. To show no respect whatsoever, he just doesn't show up to a game. He doesn't tell the coach or really any players. Now, you're going to sit there and tell me that that's the type of attitude you want on the court? If that's the case, I hope to god you never coach, cause you'll have no clue what the hell you're doing. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you guys get a kick outta exaggerating Rock4life's words. All I stated this season is our team could really use a Bonzi Wells. We already let go of Jim Jackson, Derek Anderson, Stromile Swift & now Bonzi's the latest Free Agent to come here empty handed. Eventually JVG's gonna have to be held accountable. Especially when he's recruited the likes of Charles Oakley, Clarence Weatherspoon, Charlie Ward, Mark Brunson & Mark Jackson. All of which never had a problem seeing the court as a Rocket. If Mark Brunson can get playin time as a Rocket, so can Bonzi. No excuses.........</div>Where do I begin here. Well, lets start off with JJ. What's with this him not getting minutes garbage? The two years he was in Houston 39mpg and 41mpg respectively. Are you going to say it was JVG who traded him, cause that's not likely the case. Nextly, why would you want garbage like Stro Swift on your team anyways? What's he done in his career that made you want him? He's an undersized PF/C that relies far too much on athleticism for his own good. He doesn't have much of a jump shot or a post game either. The only thing he can do well is that he does get a good amount of rebounds for the minutes he plays. Aside from that though, he's pretty limited offensively and relies on his athleticism to score most of his points. Derek Anderson is another player like JJ. He was effective when he was in Houston, but can you completely blame JVG for letting him go? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting R4L:</div><div class="quote_post">There were stretches where Rafer was highly ineffective, should he had been deactivated too? Theres no sense of balance in ur comments. Ur hatred for Bonzi becomes more evident the more you type.</div>PRetty dumb argument here. If you deactivate Rafer, who's your point guard? Luther Head isn't a point guard, so who're you going to play, John Lucas? That argument makes no sense. The fact is is that Bonzi is replaceable, simple as that. He's an unnecessary commodity and that's really all there is to it.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not just his previous expericene, it's this year too. First and foremost, lets go to the offseason. He said no to the Kings $30+mil offer because he thought he was worth more than that. Than he pouted all offseason about how he wanted more money and than had to take a paycut and play for the Rockets. Firstly, that's piss poor attitude right there. Not many people in his position would have turned down that offer from the Kings. He thought he was worth more than what he was getting, when in actuality, that's not the case. Furthermore, while all this is going on, he's sitting at home doing nothing. He's not trying to stay in shape in any way shape or form at all. Then when he finally did get a contract, he came into training camp what, some 40lbs overweight and out of shape beyond belief. And why? Who really knows. Now, to the season. He's never really shown a good attitude all year. He's complained about lack of playing time when he wasn't getting any. When he finally got some, he didn't do anything. He was highly ineffective in every way possible. His defense was pathetic (much like it's been most of his career), his offense was limited to the occasional post up and an inconsistent mid-range jump shot, and he was turning the ball over more than a person only getting 21mpg should. Oh, did I mention his piss-poor FT%? Now, we go to the most recent incident. To show no respect whatsoever, he just doesn't show up to a game. He doesn't tell the coach or really any players. Now, you're going to sit there and tell me that that's the type of attitude you want on the court? If that's the case, I hope to god you never coach, cause you'll have no clue what the hell you're doing. Where do I begin here. Well, lets start off with JJ. What's with this him not getting minutes garbage? The two years he was in Houston 39mpg and 41mpg respectively. Are you going to say it was JVG who traded him, cause that's not likely the case. Nextly, why would you want garbage like Stro Swift on your team anyways? What's he done in his career that made you want him? He's an undersized PF/C that relies far too much on athleticism for his own good. He doesn't have much of a jump shot or a post game either. The only thing he can do well is that he does get a good amount of rebounds for the minutes he plays. Aside from that though, he's pretty limited offensively and relies on his athleticism to score most of his points. Derek Anderson is another player like JJ. He was effective when he was in Houston, but can you completely blame JVG for letting him go? PRetty dumb argument here. If you deactivate Rafer, who's your point guard? Luther Head isn't a point guard, so who're you going to play, John Lucas? That argument makes no sense. The fact is is that Bonzi is replaceable, simple as that. He's an unnecessary commodity and that's really all there is to it.</div> I don't think you're getting what "Rock4life" and I are saying, it's pretty simple, given the right situation Bonzi as a basketball player "Could" have been a plus to us. Now with that said were not saying to throw him in the rotation if he's not effective but under certain basketball scenarios(Blowouts, injuries,the team shooting poorly,Yao in foul trouble,etc.) Bozi has some value and skills. But like I posted earlier JVG and Bonzi <font size=""6"">both</font> are to blame. As much as you guys want to go and talk about Bonzi's troubled past there's one thing you can't take a away, the guy was <font size=""6"">Killing</font> the Spurs just last year......<font size=""6"">THE FREAKING SPURS!!!</font>That alone has to have value and should have been a reason to try and work him into the roster.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That alone has to have value and should have been a reason to try and work him into the roster.</div> Right. And we did try to work him into the roster at multiple points in the season. In November/December, he was just totally out of shape and not playing well. In January/February he got injured after playing a stretch of several games. And then he was given another chance recently, and he decided to leave the team instead of prove his worth. We've gone over the reasons Bonzi didn't play more so many times. It was never a great fit, and we had too much depth at his position (SG/SF) entering the season. Initially, the idea was Battier would play a significant amount of time at PF, which would have freed Bonzi for a lot more minutes. But we were better playing Chuck/Juwan at PF and Battier at SF. So, unless there was an injury to McGrady or Shane, there simply wasn't room in the rotation to give Bonzi a big role. That is, unless you want to significantly reduce Battier's playing time. And I don't think JVG wanted to make that tradeoff, because he values what Battier brings to the team more than what Bonzi would bring. I think that's a reasonable position for a coach to have.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not just his previous expericene, it's this year too. First and foremost, lets go to the offseason. He said no to the Kings $30+mil offer because he thought he was worth more than that. Than he pouted all offseason about how he wanted more money and than had to take a paycut and play for the Rockets. Firstly, that's piss poor attitude right there. Not many people in his position would have turned down that offer from the Kings. He thought he was worth more than what he was getting, when in actuality, that's not the case. Furthermore, while all this is going on, he's sitting at home doing nothing. He's not trying to stay in shape in any way shape or form at all. Then when he finally did get a contract, he came into training camp what, some 40lbs overweight and out of shape beyond belief. And why? Who really knows. Now, to the season. He's never really shown a good attitude all year. He's complained about lack of playing time when he wasn't getting any. When he finally got some, he didn't do anything. He was highly ineffective in every way possible. His defense was pathetic (much like it's been most of his career), his offense was limited to the occasional post up and an inconsistent mid-range jump shot, and he was turning the ball over more than a person only getting 21mpg should. Oh, did I mention his piss-poor FT%? Now, we go to the most recent incident. To show no respect whatsoever, he just doesn't show up to a game. He doesn't tell the coach or really any players. Now, you're going to sit there and tell me that that's the type of attitude you want on the court? If that's the case, I hope to god you never coach, cause you'll have no clue what the hell you're doing.</div> Again, you dislike Bonzi. I understand, you don't like the guy. That explains why you'd bring up his contract situation, being it has ABSOLUTLEY nothin to do with anything I've stated. Corey Maggette has been goin at it with Mike Dunleavy all season. Player/Coach disagreements happen everyday in this league, especially about playing time. The difference is Maggette was givin a legitimate chance in Dunleavy's system and not have to worry about making a mistake. In Bonzi case he was in JVG's doghouse from the beginning, which explains the long delays in his activation. <div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Where do I begin here. Well, lets start off with JJ. What's with this him not getting minutes garbage? The two years he was in Houston 39mpg and 41mpg respectively. Are you going to say it was JVG who traded him, cause that's not likely the case. Nextly, why would you want garbage like Stro Swift on your team anyways? What's he done in his career that made you want him? He's an undersized PF/C that relies far too much on athleticism for his own good. He doesn't have much of a jump shot or a post game either. The only thing he can do well is that he does get a good amount of rebounds for the minutes he plays. Aside from that though, he's pretty limited offensively and relies on his athleticism to score most of his points. Derek Anderson is another player like JJ. He was effective when he was in Houston, but can you completely blame JVG for letting him go?</div> Jim Jackson was traded for an undersized David Wesley. Stro was brought here to give us some athleticism, as well as Derek Anderson & Bonzi. How can you NOT blame JVG for them being let go of? He's personally brought in Mark Jackson, Charlie Ward, Mark Brunson, Charles Oakley, Vin Baker, Clarence Weathspoon & Rod Strickland. If those bums can be placed in the system, is it really that hard to play Bonzi Wells (Who is younger and better than ALL those guys at this point). This is where the debate turns. You can't justify JVG's decision to delay Bonzi's return, especially givin his track record on who he's chose to play before. <div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">PRetty dumb argument here. If you deactivate Rafer, who's your point guard? Luther Head isn't a point guard, so who're you going to play, John Lucas? That argument makes no sense. The fact is is that Bonzi is replaceable, simple as that. He's an unnecessary commodity and that's really all there is to it.</div> Anybody can be replacable in the NBA. But aslong as JVG's coach on this team, we're A) never gonna get significantly younger. B)never gonna have a consistent 3rd option off the bench and C)never gonna have a more flexible offense with athletic offensive minded players. An "JVG type" player is usually older than 37yrs old, undersized at his position, considerably slow, plays D but has absolutley no idea how to score. Bonzi doesn't fit that description, that's why he was stalled out by the coach
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Right. And we did try to work him into the roster at multiple points in the season. In November/December, he was just totally out of shape and not playing well. In January/February he got injured after playing a stretch of several games. And then he was given another chance recently, and he decided to leave the team instead of prove his worth.</div> What you fail to mention is how he was left inactive for long periods between his minor injuries. That ultimatley kills a players ryhthm, especially when learning a new system. Bonzi was gonna struggle, i expected that. But at this point in the season I figured he'd be slowly worked back in rotation. Instead he was left inactive then thrown back in a few weeks before the post season. Yea, JVG did a great job at giving Bonzi a chance to play <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We've gone over the reasons Bonzi didn't play more so many times. It was never a great fit, and we had too much depth at his position (SG/SF) entering the season. Initially, the idea was Battier would play a significant amount of time at PF, which would have freed Bonzi for a lot more minutes. But we were better playing Chuck/Juwan at PF and Battier at SF. So, unless there was an injury to McGrady or Shane, there simply wasn't room in the rotation to give Bonzi a big role. That is, unless you want to significantly reduce Battier's playing time. And I don't think JVG wanted to make that tradeoff, because he values what Battier brings to the team more than what Bonzi would bring. I think that's a reasonable position for a coach to have.</div> If Charles Oakley, Clarence Weatherspoon & Mark Jackson can get playin time on a JVG team, why couldn't a much younger Bonzi Wells get the same chance? Who determind that Mark Brunson was a "great fit" when he came in and immediatley got minutes. Or the famous Ryan Bowen? Bonzi had more potential than ALL those guys, yet ur telling me he's not a great fit? Hogwash
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">What you fail to mention is how he was left inactive for long periods between his minor injuries. </div> Read carefully. Blurr said there was no attempt to work Bonzi into the rotation. That's not true. He was given multiple chances, but he showed time and time again he couldn't stay healthy. The team was playing well without him, so JVG wasn't going to overturn the rotation to make room for a big role for Bonzi (who, you yourself admitted, plays poorly when returning from an injury). And Bonzi wasn't comfortable accepting a smaller role on the team, which has been proven. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If Charles Oakley, Clarence Weatherspoon & Mark Jackson can get playin time on a JVG team, why couldn't a much younger Bonzi Wells get the same chance? Who determind that Mark Brunson was a "great fit" when he came in and immediatley got minutes. Or the famous Ryan Bowen? Bonzi had more potential than ALL those guys, yet ur telling me he's not a great fit? Hogwash</div> Different teams, different roles, different circumstances. Did any of those guys have players even close to the caliber of McGrady and Battier ahead of them in the depth chart? Bonzi certainly could have gotten more minutes if our team was constructed differently, so it's silly to bring up past teams.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Read carefully. Blurr said there was no attempt to work Bonzi into the rotation. That's not true.</div> Whoa! there.....I never said "There was no attempt to work Bonzi into the rotation" And just to be clear my point is that he did not get consistent PT and a chance to get acclamaited for whatever reason, It's very true that after an injury it takes time to get your timing and such. You even agreed yourself that having him inactive was foolish and that in certain situations he "could" help the Rockets. JVG is very demanding on his players and he did not bend in this situation. Look lets be honest JVG never wanted Bonzi to begin with, and Bonzi probalby didn't want to be here either, the whole thing was doomed from the start.
