Kobe is better than wade true. But wade is closer to jordan than kobe is. Meaning this. Its as simple as playing styles. Wade attacks the basket with the same frequency jordan did and doesnt bail out the defence the way kobe does with three point shooting. Great players dominate from 15 feet on in. Kobe is a great 3 point shooter but 3 point shots dont make the defence work. Kobe is more skilled than jordan ever was but skill doesnt determine greatness. Wade plays like jordan. thats how he was able to take over the Dallas series. Because when you attack attack attack ( the way mike did ) The refs are forced to blow the whistle more often. Even when you look at it from a team aspect. the more agressive team normally draws the most fouls and get the benefit of the doubt on charging calls.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have watched him, and yes, although he does have a lot of isolations set up for him, the guy genuinely sets up looks for his teammates as well. When your teammtes don't knock them down or pass the ball right back to you </div>Well you have to ask yourself why is it that the players that Kobe sets up can't knock it down or pass it back to him? Did the Lakers just happen to get really unlucky with a bunch of great shooters that suddenly came to L.A. and now they're passing back or dropping bricks??? All the guys who can't knock down shots happened to land in L.A.??? Seems unlikely. More likely it is a great 1-on-1 player trying to run an offense which is not his game at all.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not really. Kobe goes on runs, which sometimes ends up in the Lakers winning, sometimes not. Wade puts the team on his back and takes over the game, which more often ends in his team winning. </div> What's the difference? Kobe's taken over games many times this season. Our past couple of wins were mostly all come from behind wins orchastrated by Kobe Bryant. Wade takes over games and his team wins, but Kobe takes over games and his team loses? That is probably because the Lakers are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. You can't blame Kobe when your team can't play defense. If Wade leads his team back, and his team doesn't play any defense, the Heat wouldn't win either <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Otherwise known as The Shaq Excuse. While there might be a grain or two of truth to that, how do you explain Wade's first year, pre-Shaq where he immediately assumed the identity of leader and led the team deep into the playoffs one year after being a 20-win team......</div> Then how do you explain how Kobe lead the Lakers to 7 games against 2nd seeded Phoenix Suns in a series where nobody even gave the Lakers a chance? Most expected the Lakers to get eliminated in 4 or 5, but Kobe lead the team to 7 games, and if it wasn't for 1 lucky rebound, the Lakers would have pulled off a huge upset
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Then how do you explain how Kobe lead the Lakers to 7 games against 2nd seeded Phoenix Suns in a series where nobody even gave the Lakers a chance? Most expected the Lakers to get eliminated in 4 or 5, but Kobe lead the team to 7 games, and if it wasn't for 1 lucky rebound, the Lakers would have pulled off a huge upset</div>okay good point, although bear in mind a team like the Suns with no inside presence and no defense would have let a lot of teams into that series...
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">okay good point, although bear in mind a team like the Suns with no inside presence and no defense would have let a lot of teams into that series...</div> Still not a good excuse. The Suns were stacked with talent, which is why they finished with the top record in the league. Either way though, the "MVP" should have never let the series get so close
no doubt MJ is better than kobe no 1 will ever be better then MJ but dont say that at the moment d wade or steve nash is better than kobe...its a known fact that kobes the best player in the NBA at the moment, not career wise, but RIGHT now hes the best. ask any NBA player who he fears the most or who he thinks is the best player in the NBA and its Kobe. ask any real NBA analysist who the best player is and theyll say kobe ask any coach in the nba who the best player hardest to play against its kobe he takes the sweep no doubt about it
becuz the article says d wade is CURRENTLY better than kobe so that guy who made the article isnt to bright either
<div class="quote_poster">NewYorkBalla33 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Are you serious. your saying that wade is the next or close to being jordan, what has wade done that kobe hasn't done, sure he was the finals mvp, but wade has a much better TEAM then kobe does, and shaq was still young when he was on LA,so thats why kobe didnt get mvp.was wade close to getting season mvp, nope.kobe led his team to the playoffs,alone.Wow wade is better.</div> You just answered your own question. Anyways it's not so much about accomplishments as it is style of play and approach to the game. Both Wade and Kobe are similar to Jordan in different ways; you could argue either way which player is closer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What is your point???????? Last time I checked those dudes didn't have rings. I'm sick of hearing about Kobe's non-supporting-cast. I LOVE Kobe. But anyone who watches him play can tell that he's a 1-on-1 type of player. He's a good weapon to have, but he does not bring the best game out of his teammates. Not like Nash, Dwayne, or Tim Duncan or yes, even Shaq. Has anyone on Kobe's team really improved since playing with him? Not really. Luke Walton maybe, but that's more cause of him, not Kobe. </div> I agree.....when watching Tmac the other night me and another rowdie made the same observation....I'm not saying Tmac is better than Kobe (because he's not), but Tmac is much better at making people around him better....the excuse of "kobe doesn't have any teammates" is kind of lame imo because the whole point of making people around you better is just that (see Larry Bird taking a scrub team to a 60 win team in one year, see Hakeem taking a group of mediocre players to a championship, see Nash making guys like Diaw and Tim Thomas look like all stars). Tmac held the fort down with Yao out, and not only scored but also did a great job of getting his teammates involved...and I'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that the supporting cast around Kobe is that much worst than Alston,Head,Battier,Howard,and Hayes.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I said it because I'm trying to avoid yet another Wade vs. Kobe or Kobe vs. MJ debate. The whole point of the article was to shut down the Kobe vs. MJ topic, which it did. However, I guess I'll make an exemption. With each passing year and the Lakers players I see surrounding him, it's hard to see Kobe Bryant being what he is destined to be: a winner. So far on his independent journey, Kobe's career has resembled Dominique Wilkins' more than anything, although even Wilkins could get his team past the first round of the playoffs. It's easy to say that "if Kobe was as great as MJ, he would have won the MVP over guys like Nash" (which is esentially what the author states at one point), but once again, that's "pure speculation" as the author themself had said - contradiction on his/her part, because that's what he had knocked Hill for. Who's to say that MJ would lead a team with Smush and Brian Cook as regular contributers past the first round? It's ridiculous to compare even MJ's earlier teams to the team that Kobe has surrounding him currently. MJ's greatness was escalated because his teammates were just the perfect players to compliment him. Where was Michael Jordan's greatness when he was averaging 37.1 ppg on a team that finished 40-42 and were swept in the first round? The Bulls didn't become the Bulls that turned into winners until Jordan got LEGIT help around him. Check the Bulls records before the arrivals of guys like Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen, Charles Oakley, Bill Cartright (I'm talking pre-1990's). Each of those 4 players are/were EXCELLENT complimentary players that would do well on any team. Pippen himself became a hall-of-fame player. So, where was Jordan's brilliance without these guys? 40-42? 30-52? 38-44? C'mon, surely those can't be the records of MJ's teams? Well, they were. Granted, the 30-52 record was when Jordan was injured but either way, the point is simple. Surround Kobe with players that have the caliber or potential of a Bill Cartright, Charles Oakley, Pippen and John Paxon, and you will obviously see results.</div> You wrote all that, I was actually talking to the guy who posted above you
Wow, Brian, alot of "if this, and if that" ..."if we get this rebound" "if Kobe had a better team"... Well guess what??? None of that happened... Lakers lost...Kobe didn't come through...oh, but he did...he showed his selfishness and his ego in that last game, didn't he... How about this??? "What if" Kobe could swallow his pride and set aside his ego, keeping Shaq on the Lakers??? "What if" they were both still playing together??? Yeah, that didn't happen because Kobe couldn't deal with not being "the man"...oh yeah, that's right, he's not a man, he's a "mamba"...what kinda guy gives himself a nickname...hahahaha
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, Brian, alot of "if this, and if that" ..."if we get this rebound" "if Kobe had a better team"... Well guess what??? None of that happened... Lakers lost...Kobe didn't come through...oh, but he did...he showed his selfishness and his ego in that last game, didn't he... How about this??? "What if" Kobe could swallow his pride and set aside his ego, keeping Shaq on the Lakers??? "What if" they were both still playing together??? Yeah, that didn't happen because Kobe couldn't deal with not being "the man"...oh yeah, that's right, he's not a man, he's a "mamba"...what kinda guy gives himself a nickname...hahahaha</div> To be fair, Shaq kind of kicked him self out of LA with his attitude. His demand for a lucrative extension, coupled with Kobe's desires to not want to play second-fiddle, kind of made the management choose between the two. Shaq is Shaq, but he was around 32 when he got traded, while Kobe was just entering his prime. Obviously, the management chose who they thought would be the btter player to build around at that point and time.
Kobe gets part of the blame for kicking Shaq out of LA, but Shaq pretty much sealed his own fate by asking for a huge contract. At the time, Kobe was still extremely young, I believe 24 or 25. Shaq was already 32 years old. If anything, Shaq should have stepped up and showed his maturaty by being the bigger man. Unfortunately, he didn't. He still acted like a little 5 year old, which pretty much sealed his fate. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree.....when watching Tmac the other night me and another rowdie made the same observation....I'm not saying Tmac is better than Kobe (because he's not), but Tmac is much better at making people around him better....the excuse of "kobe doesn't have any teammates" is kind of lame imo because the whole point of making people around you better is just that (see Larry Bird taking a scrub team to a 60 win team in one year, see Hakeem taking a group of mediocre players to a championship, see Nash making guys like Diaw and Tim Thomas look like all stars). Tmac held the fort down with Yao out, and not only scored but also did a great job of getting his teammates involved...and I'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that the supporting cast around Kobe is that much worst than Alston,Head,Battier,Howard,and Hayes.</div> That explains how he lead his team to a 21-61 record
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, Brian, alot of "if this, and if that" ..."if we get this rebound" "if Kobe had a better team"... Well guess what??? None of that happened... Lakers lost...Kobe didn't come through...oh, but he did...he showed his selfishness and his ego in that last game, didn't he... How about this??? "What if" Kobe could swallow his pride and set aside his ego, keeping Shaq on the Lakers??? "What if" they were both still playing together??? Yeah, that didn't happen because Kobe couldn't deal with not being "the man"...oh yeah, that's right, he's not a man, he's a "mamba"...what kinda guy gives himself a nickname...hahahaha</div> How did he show his selfishness and his ego in the last game? He barely shot at all in the 2nd half, and was trying to get his teammates involved. I have no idea about what you're talking about. Again, the Suns were expected to eliminate the Lakers in 4 or 5 games, yet the Lakers took them to 7, led by Kobe Bryant. If anything, the Lakers exceeded the expectations by making the series into an actualy series
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That explains how he lead his team to a 21-61 record </div> I'm talking this season homie....Tmac has matured a lot as a b-ball player since his days in Orlando....
Geez, how dare Shaq ask for a huge contract by being the best big man in the game??? Oh, that's just awful...the nerve... Lol, Shaq should have stepped up and showed his maturity??? ...how ridiculous!!! Kobe sure has shown he has no maturity. When things have gone wrong, he has always been the first to point fingers. What's he do when rape charges are leveled his way??? Point the finger at Shaq. Great integrity. Great teammate. Wonderful person. He even railed against Karl Malone for a whole bunch of nothing, he railed against Gary Payton, and D. Fish was basically his whipping boy. Why do people have to put up with his crap when all he's gonna do is throw them under the bus??? Why can't the Lakers sign a decent free agent??? Because no one wants to play with Kobe. They've heard it from all his ex teammates, and they've seen it on the court. Kobe trying to get his teammates involved in that Game 7??? What a joke. He was trying to prove a point, and to the detriment of his own team. What a leader. Close game, but let's not be a clutch player and win a Game 7. Guess that's not selfishness nor ego...guess some people will only see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe... * Do not write full sentences in caps
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Geez, how dare Shaq ask for a huge contract by being the best big man in the game??? Oh, that's just awful...the nerve... Lol, Shaq should have stepped up and showed his maturity??? ...how ridiculous!!! Kobe sure has shown he has no maturity. When things have gone wrong, he has always been the first to point fingers. What's he do when rape charges are leveled his way??? Point the finger at Shaq. Great integrity. Great teammate. Wonderful person. He even railed against Karl Malone for a whole bunch of nothing, he railed against Gary Payton, and D. Fish was basically his whipping boy. Why do people have to put up with his crap when all he's gonna do is throw them under the bus??? Why can't the Lakers sign a decent free agent??? Because no one wants to play with Kobe. They've heard it from all his ex teammates, and they've seen it on the court. </div> I think it has more to do with the Lakers lack of cap space than anything else. The problem wasn't that Shaq asked for an extension, the problem was that he asked for an extension while the season was going on, and it was a 30 (or so) MILLION dollar extension at that. Furthermore, Shaq was quite out of shape coming into that season and had ballooned in weight. As for Kobe fighting with Malone, they were quite close until Malone said something about "hunting little mexicans" (which still makes me laugh), or something of that nature. Wouldn't you be offended if somone said that about your wife? Gary Payton was mad that L.A traded him, he didn't have anything against Kobe as far as I know. As for "ex teammates over the years", the ones that have complained about Kobe's tendencies to be a "loner" were the ones that were teammates with him when he was a kid still trying to prove himself in the league. Eddie Jones, Derek Fisher, etc, all had respect for him. More so than teammates, coaches had a problem with Kobe. Del Harris, Rambis and Jackson all had thier seperate issues with him. However, it's strange to hold that over him now. Kobe is a much different individual and player than he was before the sexual assault case was laid on him. As Phil said, the case was pretty much a crossroads point in his life. Kobe himself has said that if he regretted anything, it would be not being able to work it out with Shaq. Yes, he did want to be the man, but I still believe that he would have perferred to continously compete for championships with the Lakers as opposed to being on a mediocre Lakers team with a guy named Smush as the starting point guard. If Shaq had given Kobe the alpha dog role and played second fiddle (which he refused to do in LA), I'm sure Kobe and Shaq's differences could have been reconciled. Going back to your point about ex-teammates, the only one who has complained about Kobe since Shaq left has been Chucky Atkins...and I don't give a flying **** about Chucky Atkins.
Botom Line: MJ is the best ever no one will ever be better Kobe is the best player in the NBA at this moment NOT d wade
