That if the MAcs get eliminated and the phx suns advance (which is most likely to happen) to the 2nd round, Nah will get his 3rd str8 MVP award.. i just have a feeling
you know, I'm wondering about this, are all the awards being voted in BEFORE the regular season ends? And then they just releae the results later, one at a time?
This thread is pointlesss.. Firstly are the "Macs" the Mavs. Also the MVP voting is already in and they are just counting the votes right now. The MVP has nothing to do with playoff sucess. Dirk will still win MVP, he will be presented the award next season if he does not get to the next round.
If Dirk wins, he will receive the award in a Press Conference. Which is quite rare as the Most Valuable Player can usually lead their team to a first round victory ("valuable" players tend do that). Here is a pretty good article about it by Bill Simmons: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons Had they waited to cast their votes, even if the Mavs come back I'd have to assume Nash would win the MVP by far, so far Nash has only been spectacular (which everybody in Phoenix expects, he does it all the time, the media freaks out when he makes a great play or has a big game, but for those of us who see every game, that's just a normal day for Steve) while Dirk has been a disaster. Or as that article puts it: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Unfortunately, voting for the award happens right after the regular season, so voters weren't able to factor in your complete meltdown in Round 1 against Golden State. You didn't just fail to step up like an MVP should, you whined and complained the entire series, disgraced your teammates and embarrassed your fans. Not since David Hasselhoff has America been so embarrassed by a German</div> For all those "fans" on this forum who claimed Dirk was the obvious choice over Nash, anybody want to start the excuses? I'll even help you with the first few words... "But, but, but..."
The way the MVP is chosen is so stupid. If you can't advance your team out of the second round in the playoffs (at the very least) then you are not MVP worthy.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If Dirk wins, he will receive the award in a Press Conference. Which is quite rare as the Most Valuable Player can usually lead their team to a first round victory ("valuable" players tend do that). Here is a pretty good article about it by Bill Simmons: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons Had they waited to cast their votes, even if the Mavs come back I'd have to assume Nash would win the MVP by far, so far Nash has only been spectacular (which everybody in Phoenix expects, he does it all the time, the media freaks out when he makes a great play or has a big game, but for those of us who see every game, that's just a normal day for Steve) while Dirk has been a disaster. Or as that article puts it: For all those "fans" on this forum who claimed Dirk was the obvious choice over Nash, anybody want to start the excuses? I'll even help you with the first few words... "But, but, but..."</div> Even taking the first round of the playoffs into account, why is Nash the obvious choice? Heh.
I never said Nash was the obvious choice, I have said numerous times that I felt the MVP was a 3-man race (Dirk, Nash, Kobe), though I wouldn't really consider Kobe because he was on a 7th seed team, didn't win his division and barely broke .500. So for me it was up in the air, well at least until the 1st round... which proved Dirk isn't the leader Nash is, can't carry his team on his back like Nash can, and if he's not scoring he's not adding anything valuable to his team, at least Nash can still run the offense and set others up if his own shot isn't falling. It was everybody else claiming Dirk was the obvious choice over Nash because... well I don't know why other than they hate Nash because he's the best leader in the NBA and beats their favorite team. In any case Dirk will win the MVP tomorrow according to Marc Stein; he had a great regular season, I hope the press conference is nice -- I'm sure Nash would love to be there but he's busy with the Playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I never said Nash was the obvious choice, I have said numerous times that I felt the MVP was a 3-man race (Dirk, Nash, Kobe), though I wouldn't really consider Kobe because he was on a 7th seed team, didn't win his division and barely broke .500. So for me it was up in the air, well at least until the 1st round... which proved Dirk isn't the leader Nash is, can't carry his team on his back like Nash can, and if he's not scoring he's not adding anything valuable to his team, at least Nash can still run the offense and set others up if his own shot isn't falling. It was everybody else claiming Dirk was the obvious choice over Nash because... well I don't know why other than they hate Nash because he's the best leader in the NBA and beats their favorite team. </div> He doesn't beat the Spurs and they are a team I don't like but respect to a much greater degree. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In any case Dirk will win the MVP tomorrow according to Marc Stein; he had a great regular season, I hope the press conference is nice -- I'm sure Nash would love to be there but he's busy with the Playoffs.</div> Playing against who? Exactly. You see, that is your mistake. Fans of the NBA continue to forget about Duncan. Simply putting him into the discussion would mean that Nash would not be the obvious choice if Wins + Playoff success (how about defense too?) is taken into account. In addition, if you're going to criticize Dirk for his failure in this post-season, then I would add that the PHX Suns a couple years ago looked pretty pitiful against the Spurs (and Dirk has at least taken his team to the Finals, unlike Nash who has even more talent around him). I would have also given the MVP to Duncan that year (2004-2005).
^ hallelujah, praise the lord the lord and thank you jesus, and huevonkiller. duncan desrves it more than dirk and nash. dirk will win mvp, but he knows, i know, everyone knows that he doesnt deserve it and that he is not mvp material. if the nba had some sence and some pride they would not give dirk mvp because he just isnt the mvp, mvp's dont lose in the first round of the playoffs to the 8th seed team that hasnt played a playoff game in 13 seasons and is full of other teams rejects. just disgraceful. i dont even think dirk is the best player on the mavs.
<div class="quote_poster">Lostmyluggage Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The way the MVP is chosen is so stupid. If you can't advance your team out of the second round in the playoffs (at the very least) then you are not MVP worthy.</div> Does the term regular season mvp come to mind? Dirk was the best player on the best team in the regular season, hence the season mvp. Dirk choked and their team got ousted in the first round, hence he will not be in the running for finals mvp. They are two different awards. Stop using performance in the playoffs to gauge whether someone should be deserving of a regular season mvp; now, if mvp was an award gauging both regular season and playoffs performance, then you argument is legit.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In addition, if you're going to criticize Dirk for his failure in this post-season, then I would add that the PHX Suns a couple years ago looked pretty pitiful against the Spurs (and Dirk has at least taken his team to the Finals, unlike Nash who has even more talent around him). I would have also given the MVP to Duncan that year (2004-2005).</div> Maybe you're too young to remember but 2 years ago Phoenix was in the Western Conference Finals playing a 2nd seeded Spurs team, not the first round against an 8th seed that barely made the Playoffs that nobody gave any chance to win the series. Plus Phoenix was injured and had no bench, so I wouldn't say Nash had the better team. Also Dirk made the Finals last year not this year, he was up 2-0, then had a complete breakdown and choked like he did this year in the Playoffs, he lost in the first round to that 8th seed, remember? Even if you include the regular season, Dirk flashed signs of choking, like against Phoenix late in their game which the Suns won (he missed quite a few late FTs as well as a couple game-winning shots). I don't agree Duncan is even in the MVP talk, just like most of the media, sports analysts, fans, etc. I'd rather give it to Kobe. Even if Tim won it, not everybody would agree (in-fact more would disagree with that choice). Just accept that this award is subjective and nobody can win it without somebody whining.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe you're too young to remember but 2 years ago Phoenix was in the Western Conference Finals playing a 2nd seeded Spurs team, not the first round against an 8th seed that barely made the Playoffs that nobody gave any chance to win the series. Plus Phoenix was injured and had no bench, so I wouldn't say Nash had the better team. Also Dirk made the Finals last year not this year, he was up 2-0, then had a complete breakdown and choked like he did this year in the Playoffs, he lost in the first round to that 8th seed, remember? Even if you include the regular season, Dirk flashed signs of choking, like against Phoenix late in their game which the Suns won (he missed quite a few late FTs as well as a couple game-winning shots).</div> Dirk hit a GW shot against those same suns. Don't the Suns have more talent around Nash? Whether or not Dirk choked last year, Nash has never been able to accomplish what he did (carry a team to the Finals). Next, Dirk was Ninth in PER this post-season, he played to a respectable level in most games but the Warriors are also a good match-up against them. Nash is not even close to being three time MVP caliber player anyway (where are the rings?). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't agree Duncan is even in the MVP talk, just like most of the media, sports analysts, fans, etc. I'd rather give it to Kobe. Even if Tim won it, not everybody would agree (in-fact more would disagree with that choice). Just accept that this award is subjective and nobody can win it without somebody whining.</div> Whether or not people whine, you cannot justify Nash being a three-time MVP as much as other players (Shaq, Duncan, what not). Why is Duncan not in the MVP talk? That's completely ridiculous, Duncan is a better overall player, has the offensive/defensive production of an MVP, and wins Championships with less talent. The media barely talks about the Spurs until the post-season rolls around.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Nash is not even close to being three time MVP caliber player anyway</div> That's fine, though myself and most NBA experts disagree (including Magic Johnson). And he was close, I'm sure he finished second in the MVP voting which would have been his 3rd, so he was very close to being 3-time MVP. If Nash leads the Suns to the Championship this year, you'll make other excuses up, it's not that Nash hasn't won anything (he's only had 2 previous chances and both times the Suns had major injuries and a thin bench) it's that people dislike Nash for the same reason I used to hate Jordan (except Jordan wasn't ever the nice guy that Nash is, so it was easy to dislike him). I just don't put Duncan in MVP talks, it's simple, in the same way you discredit Steve "MVP" Nash.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That's fine, though myself and most NBA experts disagree (including Magic Johnson). And he was close, I'm sure he finished second in the MVP voting which would have been his 3rd, so he was very close to being 3-time MVP.</div> Most NBA experts that I hear always have a vague understanding of what the MVP is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If Nash leads the Suns to the Championship this year, you'll make other excuses up, it's not that Nash hasn't won anything (he's only had 2 previous chances and both times the Suns had major injuries and a thin bench) it's that people dislike Nash for the same reason I used to hate Jordan (except Jordan wasn't ever the nice guy that Nash is, so it was easy to dislike him).</div> So he's the Finals MVP now too? And you're probably right about Jordan being a jerk, but Nash is inferior to him on the basketball court, so what's your point? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I just don't put Duncan in MVP talks, it's simple, in the same way you discredit Steve "MVP" Nash.</div> No it's not simple, what are you talking about?
Ok I have time for a real reply, so here we go... <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Playing against who? Exactly.</div> The Suns are playing the Spurs, it's tied 1-1, pretty good series so far. Yes, I realize you meant that Nash isn't playing today (Friday), but he does have practice and can't just go off willy-nilly. Besides I was making a sarcastic comment about Dirk not being in the Playoffs while Nash still is (which I'm sure you knew). He's not getting it today anyway, they're moving it to next week. The arguement of Nash having better players around him ONLY come up when it's about his MVP awards. Otherwise the other Suns completely suck... anytime I mention Marion on this forum other team's fans find their way here to tell me how bad Marion is. Very few people consider Amare a top player until Nash and his MVPs come up. As for the other Suns (Barbosa, Bell, and Diaw) very few people outside of this forum probably even know 'em (well the Lakers forum knows Bell well, and they don't have a lot of good things to say about him). So either the Suns have a lot of good talented players or they don't, you can't have it both ways. Besides anybody who watched the Suns without Nash realizes Nash is the reason those players are good, everybody who plays with Nash has career years, that's why he's so valuable. Marbury/Marion/Amare (2004) = 29 wins Nash/Marion/Amare (2005, 2007) = 62, 61 wins Nash/Marion (2006) = 54 wins Take Amare off the Suns and Nash still led them to the 4th best record in the NBA, had Bell and Thomas not been injured the Suns may have won the Championship last year even without Amare. Nash didn't collapse and cause the Suns to lose in the Playoffs like Dirk did the last 2 years... Nash is the only reason the Suns made it within a couple wins from the Finals, but the Suns have suffered too many injuries in the Playoffs the last 2 years plus had no bench, this is really the first year they are healthy this time of year and have a decent rotation. If winning Championships is the key to getting MVPs why hasn't a Piston been named MVP? If Billups or Rip won it, everybody outside of Detroit would have a fit. Also why do so many Lakers want Kobe to win it? Since Shaq, he's missed the Playoffs and been bounced twice in the first round... so if you're blaming Nash for not getting to the Finals, at least he's got to the WCF, even without his big man. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So he's the Finals MVP now too? And you're probably right about Jordan being a jerk, but Nash is inferior to him on the basketball court, so what's your point?</div> What are you talking about the Finals MVP for? You keep saying Duncan is the MVP because he has more Championships, so I said even if the Suns win the title this year, you'll never give Nash any credit because you simply don't like him. As for my Jordan comparison, where did I say he could beat Jordan on the court? I said you dislike Nash, like I used to dislike Jordan... not because they aren't great players, but because they ARE great players. I hated Jordan for beating the Suns in '93 (though really it was Paxson's three). I'm glad Nash isn't the MVP to be honest, the awards have never made him or Phoenix any happier that we didn't win the trophy and have only made other team's fans jealous and spiteful. Hating Nash is like hating Gandhi, he hasn't done anything to deserve being hated, he simply plays his game, gives back to the community, and is an all-around nice guy. He doesn't play dirty, he doesn't say hurtful things about teams, players, fans, or cities, everybody in the NBA likes him as a person and would love to be his teammate.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ok I have time for a real reply, so here we go...</div> Great, nothing wrong with that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Suns are playing the Spurs, it's tied 1-1, pretty good series so far. Yes, I realize you meant that Nash isn't playing today (Friday), but he does have practice and can't just go off willy-nilly. Besides I was making a sarcastic comment about Dirk not being in the Playoffs while Nash still is (which I'm sure you knew). He's not getting it today anyway, they're moving it to next week.</div> Yes I know, Tuesday... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The arguement of Nash having better players around him ONLY come up when it's about his MVP awards. Otherwise the other Suns completely suck... </div> I don't know what forum you've been arguing on, but Amare was always considered a stud (ROY and straight out of High School, remember?). Yes Nash is the best player on the team but how can one say that the "other Suns completely suck"? No one buys that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> anytime I mention Marion on this forum other team's fans find their way here to tell me how bad Marion is. Very few people consider Amare a top player until Nash and his MVPs come up.</div> And who exactly are you referring to? It doesn't matter what the average NBA fan thinks; most of them determine who is the better player by per Game numbers and other obsolete methods. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for the other Suns (Barbosa, Bell, and Diaw) very few people outside of this forum probably even know 'em (well the Lakers forum knows Bell well, and they don't have a lot of good things to say about him). So either the Suns have a lot of good talented players or they don't, you can't have it both ways. Besides anybody who watched the Suns without Nash realizes Nash is the reason those players are good, everybody who plays with Nash has career years, that's why he's so valuable.</div> Career years? Marion was pretty consistent without Nash but indeed, Nash is the best player on that team. How you determined that he is more deserving than Duncan is a completely different matter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury/Marion/Amare (2004) = 29 wins</div> Marbury played in 34 games that season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash/Marion/Amare (2005, 2007) = 62, 61 wins Nash/Marion (2006) = 54 wins</div> Yes I know, Nash is an MVP candidate, but how does this prove he is the most deserving player? Let's take a look at the Spurs for fun: 2002-2003 - 60-22 Duncan/Ginobili/Parker *Championship* 2003-2004- 57-25 Duncan/Ginobili/Parker *Lost in Second round in six games to Lakers* 2004-2005- 59-23 Duncan/Ginobili/Parker *Championship* 2005-2006- 63-19 Duncan/Ginobili/Parker *Lost in Seven games to the Mavs* Duncan wins Championships with role players and has MVP efficiency ratings. ~ Nash won the MVP in 04-05, and I can't see why since the Spurs throughly dominated them and Duncan won quite a few games himself. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Take Amare off the Suns and Nash still led them to the 4th best record in the NBA, had Bell and Thomas not been injured the Suns may have won the Championship last year even without Amare.</div> Well Tim Duncan doesn't play with all-stars either but he still gets the job done year in and out. Had Kurt Thomas played then Eric Dampier might have seen more action since he didn't participate in that series. It is pure speculation that the Suns would have beat the Mavs (which they lost to in Six games, not seven) and the Heat anyway. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Nash didn't collapse and cause the Suns to lose in the Playoffs like Dirk did the last 2 years... Nash is the only reason the Suns made it within a couple wins from the Finals, but the Suns have suffered too many injuries in the Playoffs the last 2 years plus had no bench, this is really the first year they are healthy this time of year and have a decent rotation. </div> The Spurs had a really deep bench in 04-05? Not really. Dirk also got his team to the Finals with a roster that had comparable talent to your Amare-less PHX roster. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If winning Championships is the key to getting MVPs why hasn't a Piston been named MVP? If Billups or Rip won it, everybody outside of Detroit would have a fit.</div> That's a terrible comparison because the Pistons are a team without an elite Superstar like Duncan. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also why do so many Lakers want Kobe to win it? Since Shaq, he's missed the Playoffs and been bounced twice in the first round... so if you're blaming Nash for not getting to the Finals, at least he's got to the WCF, even without his big man. </div> The Suns were also fortunate they got the Second seed (which would have gone to the Mavs in the current era). They were able to avoid the Spurs and that is also another reason they got to the WCF, so I wouldn't feel so proud about that. It even took a dubious "And 1" call from Dirk in Game Seven to win that Series against San Antonio. I didn't even mention Kobe, it seems he's the only guy you can pick on in this MVP fight. Do the Lakers have equivalent basketball talent? This is not even an issue. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about the Finals MVP for? You keep saying Duncan is the MVP because he has more Championships, so I said even if the Suns win the title this year, you'll never give Nash any credit because you simply don't like him.</div> How do you know who I'll give credit to and why? If Nash puts up crazy pace-adjusted numbers in the Finals, I'd be more than glad to give him credit. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for my Jordan comparison, where did I say he could beat Jordan on the court? I said you dislike Nash, like I used to dislike Jordan... not because they aren't great players, but because they ARE great players. I hated Jordan for beating the Suns in '93 (though really it was Paxson's three). </div> Ah well, how do you know why I dislike Nash? I dislike the Spurs like hell but Duncan is still a better MVP candidate this year, heh. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm glad Nash isn't the MVP to be honest, the awards have never made him or Phoenix any happier that we didn't win the trophy and have only made other team's fans jealous and spiteful. Hating Nash is like hating Gandhi, he hasn't done anything to deserve being hated, he simply plays his game, gives back to the community, and is an all-around nice guy.</div> I don't hate Nash. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He doesn't play dirty, he doesn't say hurtful things about teams, players, fans, or cities, everybody in the NBA likes him as a person and would love to be his teammate.</div> Sounds like Tim Duncan. He's a great guy too.
I just don't consider Duncan a contender for MVP in my mind this year. The Spurs didn't have a spectacular season (for 15 years they've been winning 55+ games), Dallas had the most wins in their franchise's history, Phoenix had the 2nd most in their's. Dallas and Phoenix both won 60+ games, plus both had historic winning streaks this year. Duncan's numbers are some of the lowest of his career (his rebounding was the lowest of his career), Nash almost had career highs across the board, bettering his numbers from his first 2 MVPs, plus he had the 19th highest APG in NBA history, the highest in 12 years. Dirk's FG%, 3P%, and FT% were career highs, but everything else was normal for him. The Spurs didn't win their division. The MVP hasn't been given to a non-division winner since Jordan nearly 20 years ago but he averaged 35 PPG (at the time, the 8th highest ever)... if I'm giving it to a non-division winner it'd be Kobe. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan wins Championships with role players</div> Parker, Ginobili, & Finley have all been All-Stars. Bowen has won numerous defensive awards, Barry is one of the best 3P shooters in NBA history (12th all-time with nearly 1300), and Horry is CLUTCH. So it's not like Duncan is playing with the cast of "Full House", Kobe and KG would trade teammates in a second. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes I know, Nash is an MVP candidate, but how does this prove he is the most deserving player</div> I never said he was the most deserving, please quote me if I did, I hate using the word "deserving" anyway, I just had a huge rant about that word in another post explaining that a number of players are "deserving" of the MVP. Would I vote for Nash? Yes. Do I think Nash would get the MVP if they waited until after Round 1 to vote? Yes. [Off Topic] I hear people say that anybody could replace Nash, he's a product of his system, but does anybody ever wonder why Banks, Barbosa, House, Joe Johnson, Smush Parker, and others have failed to backup Nash? It's true, Nash is better in this system than in any other, but that's why D'Antoni plays this style, what kind of coach would play a style not characteristic of their players? You'd have to have Nash's skills in order to do it, he shoots like Ray Allen (high FG, 3P, and FT percentages), slashes like Tony Parker, passes like Magic Johnson, and keeps his dribble alive like a Harlem Globetrotter. [Everybody please feel free to comment, a lot of what I say is directed to the general audience, not just to huevonkiller]
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I just don't consider Duncan a contender for MVP in my mind this year.</div> Well maybe I'd agree with you last year, because Duncan's offensive numbers dipped below weak-MVP PER for the first time in years, but this year that was not the case. Duncan should not be penalized just because his team moves at a slower pace. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Spurs didn't have a spectacular season (for 15 years they've been winning 55+ games), Dallas had the most wins in their franchise's history, Phoenix had the 2nd most in their's. Dallas and Phoenix both won 60+ games, plus both had historic winning streaks this year. Duncan's numbers are some of the lowest of his career (his rebounding was the lowest of his career), Nash almost had career highs across the board, bettering his numbers from his first 2 MVPs, plus he had the 19th highest APG in NBA history, the highest in 12 years. Dirk's FG%, 3P%, and FT% were career highs, but everything else was normal for him. </div> Dirk's PER was amazing this year, but this argument evolved into discrediting him because he was knocked out in the First round. If one wants to take Playoff success and Superstar ability into account, Tim Duncan has been and is currently the MVP (two out of the last three seasons). In addition, Nash's pace-adjusted numbers only increased by a small amount (and he did have Amare again this year). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Spurs didn't win their division. The MVP hasn't been given to a non-division winner since Jordan nearly 20 years ago but he averaged 35 PPG (at the time, the 8th highest ever)... if I'm giving it to a non-division winner it'd be Kobe.</div> If the Suns played in the Mav's division they wouldn't have been Division champs either. The Division format is extremely flawed and illogical. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Parker, Ginobili, & Finley have all been All-Stars. Bowen has won numerous defensive awards, Barry is one of the best 3P shooters in NBA history (12th all-time with nearly 1300), and Horry is CLUTCH. So it's not like Duncan is playing with the cast of "Full House", Kobe and KG would trade teammates in a second.</div> But like you said about "Marion, Amare (etc.)", Duncan makes those teammates of his better. He provides the spacing Manu and Parker need to take it to the hoop consistently; their style of play would indeed suffer without Duncan. Ginobili plays about 27 minutes a game per season, he should never have been an all-star. Tony Parker is a solid player but not up to the Level of Amare/Marion. As for Finley, he's only been a role player with the Spurs. His PER the last two seasons would indicate that this is quite a valid description of him. Bruce bowen is/was a great defender but aren't Marion and Bell good defensive players as well? There is no doubt the Suns have more talent around their superstar. (btw, we all know Kobe is screwed pretty bad teammate-wise so that doesn't need to be brought up) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I never said he was the most deserving, please quote me if I did, I hate using the word "deserving" anyway, I just had a huge rant about that word in another post explaining that a number of players are "deserving" of the MVP. Would I vote for Nash? Yes. Do I think Nash would get the MVP if they waited until after Round 1 to vote? Yes.</div> You also said Duncan wasn't in the MVP discussion. Go to 82games.com and check out Duncan's On/Off Court numbers (etc.). He was second only to "Regular Season" Dirk this year (Kobe did play more minutes than Duncan/Dirk and did have a comparable season, but this debate is about the "PC" MVP that wins games as well), so he indeed is more valuable than Nash (Duncan also got past the First Round).
