I like how the whole suns team is complaining about the spurs play... they are really not meant for playoff basketball in my opinion. They should just go out there and play instead of crying to the media.
I'm not a fan of either team, but it's clear the Spurs are allowed to play physical and Phoenix. Both have been aggressive, but if the officials allow Tim Duncan to play with 10 fouls, Phoenix has no chance. Duncan is getting away with shoving Phoenix players with both hands behind the back. There was also a blatant foul on Duncan with the official in clear sight of the slap, but no foul was called. I believe it would have Duncan's 5th official foul early in the 4th which would have altered the entire game plan for the Spurs. I also the extremely late whistle by Danahugh (sp) giving the Spurs the benefit of the call based on fan reaction. Two best teams in the league, and the officials are getting all the spotlight. Gotta love it [sarcasm]
<div class="quote_poster">amador08 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I like how the whole suns team is complaining about the spurs play... They should just go out there and play instead of crying to the media.</div> Amare is the whole Suns team? Grab a media guide, you're in for a surprise! He wasn't "whining" or "complaining" he made a simply statement, "Bowen is dirty" and most of this forum agrees with that statement as you can clearly see. Most of the NBA has agreed with that statement for years, but the media only reports it when somebody like Isiah or Amare say something. They are trying to play, but it's hard when Bowen and Duncan gets away with murder and Amare gets fouls every time down the court. No Suns player has come out and said the real problem, the refs are awful in this series, especially Eddie Rush in Game 3... 8 on 5 isn't fair! It's gotta be bad when fans on this forum who have no invested interest in either team and making comments about how biased the refs are in this series. Even Jon Barry (whose brother is a Spur) made several comments, showing reply after reply of awful calls going the Spurs way. The one call that went the Suns way was when Marion got Manu's eye, and I'm sure they'd have called that flagrent had they seen it. I hope Pop's got some money after all the bribes are paid out.
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Amare is the whole Suns team? Grab a media guide, you're in for a surprise! He wasn't "whining" or "complaining" he made a simply statement, "Bowen is dirty" and most of this forum agrees with that statement as you can clearly see. Most of the NBA has agreed with that statement for years, but the media only reports it when somebody like Isiah or Amare say something. They are trying to play, but it's hard when Bowen and Duncan gets away with murder and Amare gets fouls every time down the court. No Suns player has come out and said the real problem, the refs are awful in this series, especially Eddie Rush in Game 3... 8 on 5 isn't fair! It's gotta be bad when fans on this forum who have no invested interest in either team and making comments about how biased the refs are in this series. Even Jon Barry (whose brother is a Spur) made several comments, showing reply after reply of awful calls going the Spurs way. The one call that went the Suns way was when Marion got Manu's eye, and I'm sure they'd have called that flagrent had they seen it. I hope Pop's got some money after all the bribes are paid out.</div> Whether or not the Spurs as a team are better than the Suns, Tim Duncan is clearly the best player in this series (even taking away the calls he's gotten). The Spurs got screwed last year so I don't really feel sorry for the Suns at all, though I respect them as well. Edit- It does not look good for the Spurs now btw.
I love how the Suns have battle back against the Spurs tonight. Nash is simply brilliant. And there's NO way Duncan can handle AMare. Those two behind the back passes by Nash to Amare for lay-ups were awesome! Amare went RIGHT around Duncan and left him pinned to the floor. I'm suprsied he didn't throw somthin nasty down on TD's chrome dome. Anyway, Robert Horry's a punk with that forearm shivver. I'm really rooting for the Suns, here, you guys have really weathered the storm!
If Amare gets suspended for this it would be a travesty. All of the suns players and fans would have been happy if this whole incident had not ocurred. Horry gets suspended, big deal, the Spurs don't need him. If they suspend Diaw and Amare, how is that justice? Amare's post game comments should make it impossible for them to prove anything. How can they say he was not checking in??
<div class="quote_poster">*Scotch Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If Amare gets suspended for this it would be a travesty. All of the suns players and fans would have been happy if this whole incident had not ocurred. Horry gets suspended, big deal, the Spurs don't need him. If they suspend Diaw and Amare, how is that justice? Amare's post game comments should make it impossible for them to prove anything. How can they say he was not checking in??</div> I think that the decision the league makes will be very telling about just how messed up and potentially corrupt the league is. That should be a one man suspension. Anything else is petty favoritism.
He was checking in, it was an offense/defense substitution, a foul occured, play is dead, he's in. He nor Diaw never got near the fight, they may have if the coaches weren't holding 'em back, but they were a good 10-20 feet away from the crowd of players. With everything Bowen has gotten away with, yes suspending Diaw or Amare for the next game would be outragous. Of course the rules are far more clear with players getting off the bench than the subjectivity that comes with dirty plays. I don't even think Horry should be suspended, they gave him the flagrant 2, the NBA should fine him and let everybody play, it's been a tough series, both teams are getting physical, it's the refs/NBA fault for allowing so much contact.
Wow...if you guys are to be believed, Amare is really dramatic when he checks in to games. It's a pity that emotion doesn't always translate to the actual game. And his focus is to be admired, too. It isn't easy to ignore a shoving match on the floor as you run to check in to the game, over protesting coaches and teammates, seemingly oblivious to the fact that there'd be plenty of time to check-in after everything is sorted out. Get real. It's a tough situation, but the league would really be setting a bad precedent if it didn't suspend Amare and Diaw for game 5. Horry should be gone, too, of course.
<div class="quote_poster">yodawgsup Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow...if you guys are to be believed, Amare is really dramatic when he checks in to games. It's a pity that emotion doesn't always translate to the actual game. And his focus is to be admired, too. It isn't easy to ignore a shoving match on the floor as you run to check in to the game, over protesting coaches and teammates, seemingly oblivious to the fact that there'd be plenty of time to check-in after everything is sorted out.</div> Now you're just being obtuse. Nobody said he got as far down the sideline because he was checking in, they're saying he was up in the first place because of that. He stepped a few feet forward when the fight broke up, but neither him nor Diaw were even close to the fight. I agree with Charles Barkley's postgame comments that it would not be fair to punish the Suns and take away two key players for what Horry did out of frustration. That would just be ridiculous.
<div class="quote_poster">Downtown Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now you're just being obtuse. Nobody said he got as far down the sideline because he was checking in, they're saying he was up in the first place because of that. He stepped a few feet forward when the fight broke up, but neither him nor Diaw were even close to the fight. I agree with Charles Barkley's postgame comments that it would not be fair to punish the Suns and take away two key players for what Horry did out of frustration. That would just be ridiculous.</div> I'm not contending his standing up. That's fine. What I'm contending is that he moved a few feet forward IN THE DIRECTION OF the incident (to where coaches sit), in what looked like impulsive rage. It's not important that he regained composure, held back, and didn't get involved; what's important is that he pretty clearly violated a notoriously unforgiving rule, and that only he and Diaw made any movement towards the brawl (out of two teams). That said, I agree that it would be a lame game 5 if either of them is suspended. I just wouldn't be satisfied with the resulting precedent.
Great win for the Suns last night. I wish I could've watched the game, but I can't where I'm currently at and I've been missing the Bulls as well. No matter, I can't believe that foul by Horry on Nash. That should've been more then a flagrant foul, he should've been tossed and fined IMO. That was a blatent forearm check and this isn't ice hockey.
It's unfortunate and I don't agree with it, but the league is likely going to suspend both Amare and Diaw. I'm not sure if they both get suspended at the same time, or it's split one and one. The NBA cracked down on bench clearing brawls after the Ron Artest and Pistons incident. They might want to tweak the rule over the summer, but I imagine they will enforce it in Game 5. <div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Great win for the Suns last night. I wish I could've watched the game, but I can't where I'm currently at and I've been missing the Bulls as well. No matter, I can't believe that foul by Horry on Nash. That should've been more then a flagrant foul, he should've been tossed and fined IMO. That was a blatent forearm check and this isn't ice hockey.</div> Horry was ejected from the game and given a flagrant 2 foul.
I just have a question that I found interesting. Amare stated that the Spurs can be dirty players. When Amare fouled someone (either ticky-tack or trying to make a play on the ball), the crowd chanted "Dirty" in jubilation......but when Horry actually DID something that can be be considered dirty or excessive....where were those chants then?
If Amare & Diaw are suspended then Duncan and Bowen have to be suspended too, here is Steve Kerr's blog. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In a play that went entirely unnoticed until well after the game was over, both Duncan and Bowen actually left San Antonio's bench early in the second quarter after Francisco Elson and James Jones were entangled. Replays clearly show Duncan walking several steps onto the court as Elson and Jones appeared to be ready to get into it. Bowen then followed Duncan onto the floor, grabbed him and led him back to the bench. If the league does indeed follow the letter of the law, both Spurs players would also be suspended for Game 5.</div> LINK
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If Amare & Diaw are suspended then Duncan and Bowen have to be suspended too, here is Steve Kerr's blog. LINK</div> I don't remember the incident, but if that was the case, and the NBA is going to suspend Amare and Diaw, then they should definitely suspend Duncan and Edward Scissorhands.
From the Arizona Republic: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Phoenix is alerting league officials about a play in which Spurs players Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen left the bench during the second quarter of Monday's Game 4. This comes as speculation swells in the media and concern grows in Suns quarters that Amar? Stoudemire and Boris Diaw could be suspended for Wednesday's Game 5 because they left the bench when Spurs forward Robert Horry slammed Suns star Steve Nash to the ground in Game 4's final seconds. San Antonio center Francisco Elson dunked less than three minutes into the third quarter and hung on the rim and Suns swingman James Jones unknowingly walked under him, causing Elson to crash to the floor. On the play, Duncan popped off the bench and moved inside the three-point line. Bowen follows him to his side before pulling on his arm back to the bench. </div> Source If they are going to follow the rule to the letter, it would only be fair to suspend Duncan as well. If they don't suspend Duncan, they are huge hypocrites if they suspend Amare or Diaw.
<div class="quote_poster">Downtown Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">From the Arizona Republic: Source If they are going to follow the rule to the letter, it would only be fair to suspend Duncan as well. If they don't suspend Duncan, they are huge hypocrites if they suspend Amare or Diaw.</div> I agree, there cannot be a double standard here, and you have to give the Suns a lot of credit for reviewing the other incident and alerting the league about it. This is a tough ruling the NBA will have to make. Clearly both sides broke the rule of leaving the bench and stepping on the court. However, neither incident had effected the outcome of the game at all, and you're potentially suspending four starters from a playoff game, including two superstars. Obviously not having Duncan or Amare in a pivotal Game 5 is going to be a ratings hit, and a lot of people are going to lose interest in the series for at least the one game. Here's an excerpt from ESPN's Steve Broussard's Blog on the situation. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand having the rule in place, and I definitely believe that if a player leaves the bench and gets involved in the fight, he should be suspended. But the rule should not be interpreted strictly by the letter of the law. It is not hard to decipher from the videotape whether a player leaves the bench with intentions of fighting or whether he plays a role in escalating an altercation. Many of the league's rules -- flagrant fouls, technical fouls, ejections -- are judged subjectively on a case-by-case basis. This rule needs to be handled the same way: on a subjective case-by-case basis. If the player doesn't charge toward the scrum, what harm is he doing? If he takes a few curious steps onto the court far away from the rumble, what's the big deal? </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Fans don't want to see bench-clearing brawls, but neither do they want to see series winners -- and potentially, NBA champions -- determined by needless suspensions. </div>
I think the best bet would be to have Stern make an executive ruling saying that the whole game was mismanaged and in the spirit of the game (you know, BASKETBALL, in case any of us forgot) there should be no suspensions beyond Horry's for the F2. That would have been adequately fair to everyone. Instead we get this bullcrap.
Stu Jackson's official jackass comment when asked about his decision. "This is a very unfortunate incident, but the rule is the rule," Jackson said. "It's not a matter of fairness. It's a matter of correctness, and this is the right decision."
