The NBA is in the middle of a serious shift. We saw the Kobe/Shaq era disappear, now the Dallas and San Antonio teams could be on the verge of extinction in favor of the younger, more athletic Golden State/Phoenix teams. Where does that leave the Rockets? I think we can still have Yao and play a semi-uptempo style. The problem with JVG was that his style is a little outdated. Teams don't really "slug it out" anymore due to rule changes and the personell of players. Would you guys like to see us run more? Maybe this was the vision Stern had when he abolished the handcheck rule. Either way, this is the direction the NBA is going. Do you believe we can survive with the "shift" occuring. ..............
well we will definitely have to become quicker to succeed ultimately, but I hate the way the games are officiated now....the reason scoring was down was not because teams were "slugging" it out like the NBA thought, it was because players just don't know how to shoot anymore (and they have lack of other basketball fundamentals also)...I mean really think about it, the rockets are a suppossed "slug" it out team, but yet we hoist up over 20 3 pointers a game...the problem is having players that can consistently knock down open shots....I mean the rockets title team from '95 gave up over 100 points a game yet they were a pretty damn good defensive team....people get excited over the Suns throwing up big numbers, but I remember the days where seeing that was normal....anywho I'm just complaining now......
I think the Rockets slow it down tempo is good for their roster, it definitely takes advantage of Yao's strengths, and avoids his weaknesses. Although I agree with Dream that the Rockets should either find a way to improve their 3 point shooting, or take less 3 pointers.
None of the teams who've made "the shift" have won a championship yet. 2006 - Miami 2005 - San Antonio 2004 - Detroit 2003 - San Antonio Here's a statistical breakdown of the remaining teams in the playoffs. I judge them by their offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, and pace. All the numbers are standardized -- the higher the better for the offensive and defensive efficiency. I show their numbers for the full regular season, and also for the second half (last 41 games): <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Entire Season Second Half<br/>Off DefpaceOffDef pace<br/>PHO+2.90 +0.11+1.46 +2.41-0.29 +1.07<br/>SAS+1.13 +1.97-0.88 +1.22+1.81 -0.94<br/>DET+0.92 +0.77-1.80 +0.83+1.01 -1.83<br/>UTA+1.09 -0.22-0.03 +1.24-0.22 -0.23<br/>CLE-0.45 +1.50-0.44 -0.06+1.72 -0.35<br/>CHI-0.50 +2.05+0.63 -0.89+1.87 +0.48<br/>NJN+0.02 +0.05-0.34 +0.02-0.24 -0.34<br/>GSW+0.23 -0.27+2.81 +0.22+0.07 +2.96<br/></div> These three ratings (offense, defense, and pace) are pretty good for summarizing the styles of these various teams. Some things are missing -- doesn't tell you how much they rely on the outside shot, for instance. Just looking at pace, only Phoenix, Golden State, and Chicago played fast in the regular season. And despite its relatively fast pace, you can also see that Chicago was primarily a defense-oriented team. San Antonio is still strong -- probably the favorite to win it all -- and they are the prototype for what wins traditionally. Detroit is a balanced team in terms of offense and defense, but they played at the slowest pace in the league. Cleveland is up and coming, and their style is in the mold of San Antonio.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">None of the teams who've made "the shift" have won a championship yet. 2006 - Miami 2005 - San Antonio 2004 - Detroit 2003 - San Antonio Here's a statistical breakdown of the remaining teams in the playoffs. I judge them by their offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, and pace. All the numbers are standardized -- the higher the better for the offensive and defensive efficiency. I show their numbers for the full regular season, and also for the second half (last 41 games): <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Entire Season Second Half<br/>Off DefpaceOffDef pace<br/>PHO+2.90 +0.11+1.46 +2.41-0.29 +1.07<br/>SAS+1.13 +1.97-0.88 +1.22+1.81 -0.94<br/>DET+0.92 +0.77-1.80 +0.83+1.01 -1.83<br/>UTA+1.09 -0.22-0.03 +1.24-0.22 -0.23<br/>CLE-0.45 +1.50-0.44 -0.06+1.72 -0.35<br/>CHI-0.50 +2.05+0.63 -0.89+1.87 +0.48<br/>NJN+0.02 +0.05-0.34 +0.02-0.24 -0.34<br/>GSW+0.23 -0.27+2.81 +0.22+0.07 +2.96<br/></div> These three ratings (offense, defense, and pace) are pretty good for summarizing the styles of these various teams. Some things are missing -- doesn't tell you how much they rely on the outside shot, for instance. Just looking at pace, only Phoenix, Golden State, and Chicago played fast in the regular season. And despite its relatively fast pace, you can also see that Chicago was primarily a defense-oriented team. San Antonio is still strong -- probably the favorite to win it all -- and they are the prototype for what wins traditionally. Detroit is a balanced team in terms of offense and defense, but they played at the slowest pace in the league. Cleveland is up and coming, and their style is in the mold of San Antonio.</div> Obcourse, San Antonio is the best balanced team in terms of offense vs defense. They know how to grind it out and at the same time fast break too. What you failed to realize is the two teams that were in the finals last year both got humiliated by faster, younger teams. The shift is as prevelant as ever.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Obcourse, San Antonio is the best balanced team in terms of offense vs defense. They know how to grind it out and at the same time fast break too. What you failed to realize is the two teams that were in the finals last year both got humiliated by faster, younger teams. The shift is as prevelant as ever.</div> Chicago is on the verge of getting swept by one of the slowest/oldest teams in the league, btw, so I wouldn't use them to illustrate your point. Our offense has to get better, and we should definitely try to get more athletic, skilled, and versatile players. But as long as we have Yao we're going to be a slow, half-court team. If we want to emulate a great team, we should look to San Antonio; not Phoenix or Golden State.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Chicago is on the verge of getting swept by one of the slowest/oldest teams in the league, btw, so I wouldn't use them to illustrate your point.</div> Have you watched Detroit? There offense isn't what I'd call slow, especially under Flip Saunders. Most of their bigmen are long, quick, and athletic. They have the ability to either go small or big. Their strong point is they can win a number of different ways, whether it be fast or slow. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Our offense has to get better, and we should definitely try to get more athletic, skilled, and versatile players. But as long as we have Yao we're going to be a slow, half-court team. If we want to emulate a great team, we should look to San Antonio; not Phoenix or Golden State.</div> I disagree, but agree. Yao does slow our offense down considerabley. But that doesn't mean we have to "bog down" every series thru him. Which was one thing JVG misunderstood about Yao. He just figured throw the ball to Yao and let him grind it out with whoever guarded him. That style of play wore on Yao as the series went by. What we need is a coach that can re-establish a more complex system in which uses Yao's A)passing skills and B)shooting touch. Yao CAN indeed spot up and shoot from the outside. That's why Adelman can take us to that next level.....
You can only change style if you have the players. Rockets only have 2 real athletic guys. Players make teams, Rockets have been stuck in the same situation for three or four years....not quick, big, or athletic enough. Rockets need another play maker, but even if they get one they still only have 2 strong finishers, and Yao aint one. The only way to Use Yao real effectively is to play like the showtime Lakers used Kareem. Have the Players able to push up the ball and score quick, and if that doesn't happen then Yao slowly comes up the court and posts. Like S.A. plays with T.Duncan TMac,Shane,Yao only untouchables. Been Looking for a decent starting PG and PF for a while.
I always thought that we should run more when Yao sits on the bench. I honestly don't see the reason why we can't run with a lineup of Rafer/Lucas/Head/Spanoullis Tmac/Head/Snyder Battier/Snyder/Novak Chuck/Juwan/Novak/Battier Juwan/Chuck There are hardly any dominant Centers in the game today so defense at the Center spot wouldn't be a problem, so I don't see why we can't go small and run.....we have shooters Battier,Head,Novak and we have people to start it Rafer,Lucas,Tmac,etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can only change style if you have the players. Rockets only have 2 real athletic guys. Players make teams, Rockets have been stuck in the same situation for three or four years....not quick, big, or athletic enough. </div> I really don't agree that we don't have athleticism or quickness....I'm not claiming we're the quickest or most athletic team (I even stated we needed to get a tad bit quicker), but Tmac,Shane, and Snyder and even Hayes are quick and athletic.....and Rafer,Lucas, Head are quick...
Other than TMac and Snyder, everyone else plays below the rim. And thats my point from the athletic thing. Pass to Chuck underneath is still a question because he has to through it off the glass between taller guys. SKip aint dunkin on nobody and not a good enough playmaker to compensate. Rockets don't have the guys to compete in todays NBA. Needs: Quick athletic ball handler, Like G.S. whole starting lineup. Lucas and Head just aint big or strong enough.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Other than TMac and Snyder, everyone else plays below the rim</div> not all fast breaks end in dunks.....Tmac,Snyder,Battier,Rafer, etc. can all contribute to the fastbreak differently...
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I always thought that we should run more when Yao sits on the bench. I honestly don't see the reason why we can't run with a lineup of Rafer/Lucas/Head/Spanoullis Tmac/Head/Snyder Battier/Snyder/Novak Chuck/Juwan/Novak/Battier Juwan/Chuck There are hardly any dominant Centers in the game today so defense at the Center spot wouldn't be a problem, so I don't see why we can't go small and run.....we have shooters Battier,Head,Novak and we have people to start it Rafer,Lucas,Tmac,etc.</div>I think that could be a good idea. That was Miami's style when Shaq went to the bench, they would change their style to a faster pace. Otherwise with the Diesel in the game they would take advantage of a slower pace.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Have you watched Detroit? There offense isn't what I'd call slow, especially under Flip Saunders. Most of their bigmen are long, quick, and athletic. They have the ability to either go small or big. Their strong point is they can win a number of different ways, whether it be fast or slow. </div> They use up more shot clock than any other team in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">They use up more shot clock than any other team in the league.</div> And?
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And?</div> ....It means that they have a slow offensive setup.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">....It means that they have a slow offensive setup.</div> Well I think we're over analyzing things a bit. I don't think it's neccesarily a matter of speeding up the offense but more of taking quality shots and not being so dependant on the three. It's about getting something on the score board on every possesion. The biggets thing for me was that as much as JVG held players accountable for bad defense, he pretty much let you jack up anything on offense. Not once did I see him pull McGrady aside and make him stop shooting 3's. Or Rafer for that matter, look at Utah and SA. balance is the key.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well I think we're over analyzing things a bit. I don't think it's neccesarily a matter of speeding up the offense but more of taking quality shots and not being so dependant on the three. It's about getting something on the score board on every possesion. The biggets thing for me was that as much as JVG held players accountable for bad defense, he pretty much let you jack up anything on offense. Not once did I see him pull McGrady aside and make him stop shooting 3's. Or Rafer for that matter, look at Utah and SA. balance is the key.</div> I don't think that was the point. His point is that Detroit's offense isn't quick. Who said slow offense is a bad thing? I would much rather have a slow efficient offense than a quick offense. Playoffs are all about defense and half court offense. The more efficient you are, the better the chance. I don't really care about whether we run fast or slow, as long as we score. Durvasa's main point is to disprove Rock's point that Detroit's offense isn't slow.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think that was the point. His point is that Detroit's offense isn't quick. Who said slow offense is a bad thing? I would much rather have a slow efficient offense than a quick offense. Playoffs are all about defense and half court offense. The more efficient you are, the better the chance. I don't really care about whether we run fast or slow, as long as we score. Durvasa's main point is to disprove Rock's point that Detroit's offense isn't slow.</div> I agree, that's why I said I don't think we have speed up the offense just take better shots.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think that was the point. His point is that Detroit's offense isn't quick. Who said slow offense is a bad thing? I would much rather have a slow efficient offense than a quick offense. Playoffs are all about defense and half court offense. The more efficient you are, the better the chance. I don't really care about whether we run fast or slow, as long as we score. Durvasa's main point is to disprove Rock's point that Detroit's offense isn't slow.</div> Detroit's offense is only slow when they "choose" it to be. They actually do have quick offensive plays they run (ex:backdoors, alleyoops etc...), not to mention they get out and run more than we do. Durvasa said he can't see us running with Yao, I disagree. I do agree with the notion we should aim for a style like San Antonio's.
