I keep hearing how Greg Oden is the best Center prospect since Patrick Ewing...and I feel as if everyone is over looking Dwight Howard. Isn't he up there as well? I mean he's 7 foot and was built right to start off. He is very athletic, and a great rebounder and is doing very good still as a young player. How can he not be considered as good as Oden? I don't get it. Maybe i'm overlooking something.
We had a discussion about this in the Magic forum not too long ago. It all comes down to this, Greg Oden is a phenomenal prospect but Dwight Howard is already proven. Dwight has proven that he can dominate against the best centers in the world. He led the league in rebounding off and on last season and has already competed in an All-Star game. He has racked up many 20/20 games including his one sensational 30 points, 25 rebound performance against the Warriors on January 11. His body is in perfect shape and he has all the physical tools to be great and he has consistently gotten bigger and bigger each season since entering the league by eating healthy and working extremely hard in the weight room. He has the work ethic and desire to be great and has never had any problems off the court. He has never missed a game due to injury and holds the Orlando Magic record for most consecutive games played despite being only 21 years old. While Dwight's offense is a bit raw, he is one of the most athletic players on the court and this is displayed each and every night. He has also worked on his offense a lot since entering the league, showing his work ethic. He has dedicated this entire offseason to improving his offense and free throw shooting so the big test will come next season. Most big men who come out of high school breakout around this age (see Kevin Garnett) so it'll be interesting to see how Dwight does next season, both statistically and leadership wise. Last season was the first time he has ever faced double and triple teams at the professional level. At first, you could tell it was effecting his game but he adjusted and worked on passing out of the double team. His passing improved a lot last season and he provided his teammates with many open looks (which is a big reason Keith Bogans had a career high field goal percentage last season). He also averages nearly 2 blocks per game and nearly every analyst has said he will be the best center in the league any day now. Everyone is extremely high on Greg Oden but Dwight is another big man who has an unlimited upside. Everyone talks about Oden's amazing defense but I'm sure Howard could have been similarly effective at the college level. I remember there was a game when Dwight was in high school when he had 17 blocks. Eventually, the other team just stopped driving in the paint because they realized he would just block all of their layups and dunks. Since Howard jumped right from high school, we never got to see how he would perform against college players much smaller than him. While I agree that Oden has loads of potential for a freshman in college, Dwight has already shown what he can do and he is the real deal. Everything with Greg is a guessing game right now. How good will he be? Will his wrist remain a problem throughout his career? Can he live up to the hype? All of these questions remain to be answered while Howard is already an NBA All-Star. Don't get me wrong, Oden is a great shot blocker and is very mature for his age and has all the physical tools to be great but there is still a chance things don't workout for him. Nobody knows how he will make the transition from college to the pros. He could be a legend or he could bust, nobody knows at this point. Dwight on the other hand is already showing he can be a force both offensively and defensively each and every night at this level.
Greg Oden will be a candidate for the All-NBA Defense team his first year in the league. That's what separates the two right now.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Greg Oden will be a candidate for the All-NBA Defense team his first year in the league. That's what separates the two right now.</div> How do we know that though? He could get hurt in his first game and never play again. We just don't know.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Greg Oden will be a candidate for the All-NBA Defense team his first year in the league. That's what separates the two right now.</div> Really durvasa? He's that far ahead defensively? Why do you have such conviction in Oden?
<div class="quote_poster">Swish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How do we know that though? He could get hurt in his first game and never play again. We just don't know.</div> Well similarly, Dwight could get hurt the first game of the season and never play again, but we'll lay that speculation aside as those aren't the more likely scenario's.
In collage, Oden didn't even jump to block shots. He put his hand up and popped the ball up and caught it. To be on the All-NBA D-Team, in your first year, you gotta be spectacular. I don't know one guy in his first year to do that, so all of a sudden Oden can. You basis is on collage whihc just isn't right. Howard is proven and I think he will be way more dominate then Oden.
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In collage, Oden didn't even jump to block shots. He put his hand up and popped the ball up and caught it. To be on the All-NBA D-Team, in your first year, you gotta be spectacular. I don't know one guy in his first year to do that, so all of a sudden Oden can. You basis is on collage whihc just isn't right. Howard is proven and I think he will be way more dominate then Oden.</div> I watched every Ohio State game on ESPN Full Court from this past season, and I don't know where you get that from - Invalid Video Link Invalid Video Link Invalid Video Link By the way, the kind of a block you're describing, "popping it up and catching it," isn't that the point of a block, to get the ball back? What's the point of swatting a shot out of bounds and loosing possession? Oden's like Russell, Duncan, and very few other big men on the defensive end of the floor. He's a heady, smart player whose intimidating presence changes the way that opponents run their offenses. Too many NBA fans have an opinion on college players, but most of those opinions are just second hand. Did any of you who are down on Oden actually watch his games, or are you just going off of highlight reels, a single tournament game you saw, and the analysis of some overpaid sports writer?
<div class="quote_poster">og15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well similarly, Dwight could get hurt the first game of the season and never play again, but we'll lay that speculation aside as those aren't the more likely scenario's.</div> Good point but I guess the point I'm trying to make was that at this point, Oden hasn't done anything at the professional level while Dwight has. It's all just guesswork with Oden while Dwight has played in an All-Star game, playoff series, and with Team USA. Voodoo, I've sat down and watched Greg Oden both in the regular season and the tournament. The notable games I remember watching start to finish were the Tennessee-Ohio State game, the Florida-Ohio State game in the regular season, and then every tournament game he played in. Like I said in my first post, I agree that Oden has loads of potential for a freshman in college. I think he is going to be a great player and has the potential to be better than Dwight but the point I'm trying to make is that Dwight has already made an impact in the NBA while Oden has not at this point.
<div class="quote_poster">Swish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo, I've sat down and watched Greg Oden both in the regular season and the tournament. The notable games I remember watching start to finish were the Tennessee-Ohio State game, the Florida-Ohio State game in the regular season, and then every tournament game he played in. Like I said in my first post, I agree that Oden has loads of potential for a freshman in college. I think he is going to be a great player and has the potential to be better than Dwight but the point I'm trying to make is that Dwight has already made an impact in the NBA while Oden has not at this point.</div> I understand the point of your thread, but I was replying to Ford_11. As for the topic though, Howard is truly overlooked, but I just don't see the same potential for dominance when I watch Howard that I see in Oden. Yes, they're both raw offensively at this point, but Oden has a better feel for the fundamentals offensively than Howard, from what I've seen at least. He establishes position better, keeps the ball high, and has an amazing sense of where the ball is at all times. He may not have been as dominant as Durant offensively on the collegiate level, but give him another year, and he sure as hell could have been. You have to remember that he missed about half of the season, and when he did come back, it was way ahead of schedule. He was understandably out of shape and only had use of his left hand. Not only that, but he wasn't involved in the Ohio State offense until about the Tennessee game. Not only do I think he has greater offensive potential, but I think he's more complete defensively, as he's twice the shot blocker Howard will ever be, and I don't think durvasa is out of line at all in saying that he'll be an All-NBA defender his first year in the league.
Earlier this year I wasn't drinking the Oden cool-aid and thought that Dwight was the better prospect but recently I've been seing the light with Oden and now I think he is a better prospect than Dwight. The difference between the two is Oden's intangibles, the things that you can't see in stat sheets or stuff that isn't obvious. I know its cliche, but Oden has that quality very much like a Bill Russell where hes just a winner and that comes because he does so many things on the court, but on the stat sheet hes no different than your normal star big man. His presence defensively is unlike anyone that I've seen in a long time. Shots around the rim that are normally 80+% for a player all of a sudden go down to 60% just with Oden somewhere on the floor. Not to mention if hes actually in the vicinity, bothering the shot himself and probably blocking it. The only guys in the league who could give you an idea of this are Duncan, Kirilenko when hes on, and Zo in his prime. Also, another key thing is that Oden blocks a shot but makes sure his team gets the ball. This is an underrated aspect of blocking shots. Most players just try to swat it into the upper level but the whole idea of a block is to deny a FGA and get the ball for your team. This was something guys like Russell and NAte Thurmond were great at but has become a lost art in the NBA recently and I think Oden is great in this aspect. His actual man defense is quite good as well and hes got the length, strength, and athleticism to shut down any player in the league in the post. Hes an extremely smart guy, plays position defense well and understands how to play inside and get position. Once he learns to not foul so much he'll probably be a top 10 post defender in the league and it won't be long before hes on the level of the Camby's, Ben Wallaces, Duncan's, KG's, etc. Offensively hes got a ways to go but hes solid right now. I don't think he runs the pick and roll that well right now but with some better understanding of passing angles and how to get himself open he could be a monster in this area. If he gets the ball under the rim its going in for sure, probably a dunk. In the post hes got some decent moves as it is that are unblockable, he usually goes to his baby hook but because hes so athletic and big he can get by without great post moves. I don't think he'll ever be as good offensively as Duncan is but he can be damned solid and a top 5 scoring C in the league in his prime. Hes a good passer too and runs the floor well. In short, the thing that separates Oden from the rest of the recently drafted athletic, all around stud big men is his court presence. Defensively his presence alone can lower the opposing team's FG% because he'll always be in the back of their mind, hes a guy who will be able to shutdown any big in the league and dominate the inside within a year or two of his first game in the NBA.
I think its important to remember that when people talk about Oden its all in the hypothetical. No one's saying that he's better than Howard, but when you compare both of them heading into the draft, Oden is a better prospect than Dwight was, IMO. Now obviously there's no guarantees because developing in the NBA is a whole different story, but it is something substantial to base expectations off of. I do think that Dwight Howard gets overlooked far too often, but that's just in general and doesn't have anything to do with Oden.
<div class="quote_poster">Swish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We had a discussion about this in the Magic forum not too long ago. It all comes down to this, Greg Oden is a phenomenal prospect but Dwight Howard is already proven. Dwight has proven that he can dominate against the best centers in the world. He led the league in rebounding off and on last season and has already competed in an All-Star game. He has racked up many 20/20 games including his one sensational 30 points, 25 rebound performance against the Warriors on January 11. His body is in perfect shape and he has all the physical tools to be great and he has consistently gotten bigger and bigger each season since entering the league by eating healthy and working extremely hard in the weight room. He has the work ethic and desire to be great and has never had any problems off the court. He has never missed a game due to injury and holds the Orlando Magic record for most consecutive games played despite being only 21 years old. While Dwight's offense is a bit raw, he is one of the most athletic players on the court and this is displayed each and every night. He has also worked on his offense a lot since entering the league, showing his work ethic. He has dedicated this entire offseason to improving his offense and free throw shooting so the big test will come next season. Most big men who come out of high school breakout around this age (see Kevin Garnett) so it'll be interesting to see how Dwight does next season, both statistically and leadership wise. Last season was the first time he has ever faced double and triple teams at the professional level. At first, you could tell it was effecting his game but he adjusted and worked on passing out of the double team. His passing improved a lot last season and he provided his teammates with many open looks (which is a big reason Keith Bogans had a career high field goal percentage last season). He also averages nearly 2 blocks per game and nearly every analyst has said he will be the best center in the league any day now. Everyone is extremely high on Greg Oden but Dwight is another big man who has an unlimited upside. Everyone talks about Oden's amazing defense but I'm sure Howard could have been similarly effective at the college level. I remember there was a game when Dwight was in high school when he had 17 blocks. Eventually, the other team just stopped driving in the paint because they realized he would just block all of their layups and dunks. Since Howard jumped right from high school, we never got to see how he would perform against college players much smaller than him. While I agree that Oden has loads of potential for a freshman in college, Dwight has already shown what he can do and he is the real deal. Everything with Greg is a guessing game right now. How good will he be? Will his wrist remain a problem throughout his career? Can he live up to the hype? All of these questions remain to be answered while Howard is already an NBA All-Star. Don't get me wrong, Oden is a great shot blocker and is very mature for his age and has all the physical tools to be great but there is still a chance things don't workout for him. Nobody knows how he will make the transition from college to the pros. He could be a legend or he could bust, nobody knows at this point. Dwight on the other hand is already showing he can be a force both offensively and defensively each and every night at this level.</div> I agree, Dwight Howard is proven while Oden is not. As a Portland fan I am being really optimistic that he could be the better of the two, but of course nothing is a giving. Also, while I feel the whole Bowie comparison to Oden is way out of porportion, it can still happen which is what a lot of us Blazer fans fear. But yes Dwight Howard easily gets overlooked, he is a pretty good baller.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Really durvasa? He's that far ahead defensively? Why do you have such conviction in Oden?</div> I think he's going to be a dominant defensive player, right out of the gate. I could be wrong, but that's my prediction.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think he's going to be a dominant defensive player, right out of the gate. I could be wrong, but that's my prediction.</div> Understandable, just that with that wrist of his I have some doubts (as far as his rookie year is concerned). Run's post was quite adequate in explaining this conviction of yours.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I watched every Ohio State game on ESPN Full Court from this past season, and I don't know where you get that from - Invalid Video Link Invalid Video Link Invalid Video Link By the way, the kind of a block you're describing, "popping it up and catching it," isn't that the point of a block, to get the ball back? What's the point of swatting a shot out of bounds and loosing possession? Oden's like Russell, Duncan, and very few other big men on the defensive end of the floor. He's a heady, smart player whose intimidating presence changes the way that opponents run their offenses. Too many NBA fans have an opinion on college players, but most of those opinions are just second hand. Did any of you who are down on Oden actually watch his games, or are you just going off of highlight reels, a single tournament game you saw, and the analysis of some overpaid sports writer?</div> Ok, I see what you are getting at. I know he does jump to block shots, I mean everyone does, I didn't mean to sound bad about it. But most of the time when I did see him, which wasn't as much as you, I admit, he stood in the post or stayed in the area, with his man, cause that's where he was and when some on drove he came in a a lil hop, and stopped it. Not a bad thing, but I'm saying. Those are just clips you can find on any player who did something nice. It proves to me nothing that you showed me this. I know he jumpes, but those arn't everyday shot blocks, those are things of beauty that don't happen very ofton.
I actually think he will be an All-Defensive level player, but won't get the votes because he's a rookie, but we'll see how it goes. I definately agree that from what I've seen from him, he's a superior defensive player to Howard, and as much as I love Dwight, he still has ways to go on the offensive end, and Oden has potential there too.
Not sure what Oden will do in the future, but he has the potential, I don't think he'll dominate his first season on the defensive end. Dwight's stronger and much more athletic, in terms of jumping and quickness. Oden probably has more length. But, I think both will be very good players on both ends of the court, Dwight dominates on the boards, and I think Oden won't be as good as a rebounder as Dwight. Once Dwight keeps developing his offensive game like he has the past off-seasons, plus better FT shooting he'll dominate on offense because of all the points he already gets of offensive rebounds, and then adding an offensive arsenal.
in my opnion, i dont see how oden can be to much better then howard. howard is built amazingly physically and is very athletic and strong, consistently improving his game, ahtleticism, and strength every year. his offensive game is steadily improving as well. he is a VERY good rebounder with many 20 point and 20 rebound games. i do see the stuff in greg oden in terms of fundamentals and a better understanding of the game....but i cant see him being a whole lot better if better at all then dwight howard
Howard is way too raw IMO. He just dunks on the offensive end. No moves. Oden has a more complete game, a better understanding of the game, and is a superior defensive player. He might not be better than Howard in his rookie year, but in the future I see him surpassing Dwight.
