<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That isn't the point. Even if he played 20 games, that is still a lot of games. Do you need to play 60+ games to tell how well you are playing?</div> You've CLEARLY said multiple times that "Bonzi played poorly the whole season". If I'm not mistaken, he only played about 1/4th of the season. That's not a "whole season", that's more like a "stretch" of games. Which explains why Bonzi needed more time to adjust. But fans like you along with JVG came to the conclusion we didn't need him. Well guess what, JVG's fired now and Bonzi happens to be the one the organization wants back. I wonder who was wrong in that situation <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Covering for JVG? More like you are covering for Bonzi. Which seems mroe logical?. Jvg being fired for not getting passed the first round after 4 years or JVG getting fired for his treatment of Bonzi... You can't be that stubborn.. Sure JVG was stubborn in handling Bonzi, but its HIS SHIP TO RUN. Tell me, if you were Bonzi, would you have handled it different? It took 2 months just for Bonzi to talk to JVG and say he wanted playing time and would work hard. If he had done that from the beginning and kept his attitude good, he wouldn't have been in the doghouse for so long.</div> Coaches should never hold grudges. If Bonzi & JVG had problems early, JVG should've been more receptive to talk things out. A player should never be forced to speak to a coach. In this situation Bonzi was forced to speak to JVG because the coach wouldn't even acknowledge him. That was the first sign JVG had a "grudge" against Wells. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">A) I don't recall you mentioning our rotation was too thin..But, I'll give that to you. We did not really shoot that many jumpers in the playoffs. Tmac was actually penetrating, and Yao was at the low post. Jazz actually shot more jumpers than we did (off of screens and such). THe problem is, not many of our players can shoot off the dribble. Only Tmac did that, and hes shot poorly all series. C) It's not that we relied too much on defense, its just that our offense wasn't efficient enough. All the teams in the Conference Finals rely heavily on defense (with the exception of Utah). D) Problem was, Bonzi himself wasn't up to the task. Sure he can be a third option, but he took himself out of that role.</div> If you don't remember me going on a tirade about our rotation in the regular season then you have amnesia. We had very long debates about JVG's 8-man rotation. Also, you Foo, happen to be the ONLY person who still believe we weren't a jumpshooting team. I mean that was the easiest observation for a Rocket fan. You've already lost that argument, give it up. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We knew that he was a defense oriented coach. But let me ask you this. If we would have gotten up to the WCF (which was very possible), would you be saying fire JVG? You probably would have regardless of how well we did.</div> The fact is we LOST AGAIN in the 1st round. No if, ands or buts about it. You can't do hypotheticals in this situation. I never liked JVG's coaching decisions, strategies or rotations. While you, FOO82, supported JVG and belittled Rock4life in the process. Again, JVG is TERMINATED now. I was the one who saw it coming <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now you are just arguing semantics. My "whole season" comment was in regards for his play during the season. Your reasoning is incredibly flawed. Are you saying a groin injury is much more devastating then a broken Fibia, or even a hyperextended knee? You are just giving excuses to Bonzi. I don't know about you, but I would rather take the groin injury. What you said seems to me that he was just finding excuses. I did expect Bonzi to struggle, and that had nothing to do with his groin injury. It had more to do with his mental state. He is getting payed roughly 1/3rd of his original offered Salary in Sacramento. Don't tell me that had no effect.</div> Bla...Bla...Bla...This had nothin to do with salary. JVG, the one who got fired, was the problem all along. Remember, Bonzi's the one who's been asked to be back on the team. If his attitude was so terrible I'm sure Alexander wouldn't have said he would love Bonzi back in a Rockets uniform. He has his health back, a chance at training camp, and a new coach willing to use him the right way. Too bad ur guy JVG couldn't get the job done NOTE: You said Bonzi played poorly the "whole season". That's not true. But maybe you weren't thinking. I'll let you slide this time. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did you even watch the game? AK wasn't even on Hayes. He was on Tmac most of the time.</div> No Foo.....Wrong again. Fisher spent the most time on Tmac. Go back and youtube the games if you don't believe me. Moving along......... <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi isn't a player that can defend. He's too slow to guard quicker players. I'm judging solely on his performance this year. Not on his potential, and certainly not in his Sacramento days.</div> Bonzi played a few games for us, BIG DEAL. We didn't get to really see him at his best. Due to our former coach's silly grudges. I still didn't see him as a poor defender this year. Luther however, a different story. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Would you have handled the situation the same as Bonzi? No idiot would do that if they want playing time. The only thing that got in the way was Bonzi's ego. Bonzi didn't even talk to the coach for a while. After he said he was willing (after 2 months) to work hard to the coach and try whatever is necessary, JVG inserted him into the lineup. If Bonzi had done that earlier, he could have gotten even more pt.</div> JVG made no effort to speak to Bonzi at all. He quickly blackballed Bonzi from the team and foolishly decided that Bonzi didn't fit. Thank heavens he's not coaching us anymore
Bonzi is gunna regan his spark under Adleman, like is Sacramento when he was some what of a force. Hopefully he can get there, and help the rockets and T-Mac.
bonzi seems like a really honest, genuine guy, and that is hard to come by in this day and age. i dont think he will be greedy and opt out and resign for more money because he would also be risking not getting signed, if her were to want more money, he would play really well next season and be re-signed nextn offseason. i think you guys are in a good situation and you shouldnt be so upset wioth each other.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You've CLEARLY said multiple times that "Bonzi played poorly the whole season". If I'm not mistaken, he only played about 1/4th of the season. That's not a "whole season", that's more like a "stretch" of games. Which explains why Bonzi needed more time to adjust. But fans like you along with JVG came to the conclusion we didn't need him. Well guess what, JVG's fired now and Bonzi happens to be the one the organization wants back. I wonder who was wrong in that situation</div> Again, You are arguing semantics and wording. My whole season doesnt mean all 82 games. My whole season means the 2006-2007 season. Bonzi played 28 games which is roughly 1/3rd of the whole season. But that doesnt change the fact that he did play poorly in those games. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Coaches should never hold grudges. If Bonzi & JVG had problems early, JVG should've been more receptive to talk things out. A player should never be forced to speak to a coach. In this situation Bonzi was forced to speak to JVG because the coach wouldn't even acknowledge him. That was the first sign JVG had a "grudge" against Wells. </div> Again, why does the coach have to initiate everything? JVG already made his expectations clear. If Bonzi did not want to step up to it. That is purely his fault. Again, this JVG's team, not Bonzi's team. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> If you don't remember me going on a tirade about our rotation in the regular season then you have amnesia. We had very long debates about JVG's 8-man rotation. </div> Sorry, I don't pay attention to half the things you say considering that most of it is rubbish. All I remember you saying was that you wanted a ridiculous 10-man rotation. JVG did not run an 8-man rotation in the playoffs. He ran mostly a 7 man rotation with Deke coming in for like 5 minutes. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, you Foo, happen to be the ONLY person who still believe we weren't a jumpshooting team. I mean that was the easiest observation for a Rocket fan. You've already lost that argument, give it up. </div> Again, you seem to fail in reading comprehension. My definition of jumpshooting does not match yours. You seem to take jumpshooting as anyone who shoots a ball. My definition requires that you able to create your own jumpshot. We run an inside out system in which the open man takes a 3. My definition requires something like a pick and roll pull up jumpshot. Or an off the dribble pull up jump shot. Besides tmac and rafer, no one else on our team really does that. I do not classify open 3's as a jumpshooting team. I do not classify Yao's low post fadeaways or hooks as a jumpshot either. My definition is closer to the stuff Deron Williams pulls off on the pick and roll. Tell me, why do players take jumpshots? It is to get over the defender guarding them. We are hardly shooting shots over defenders heads. Most of our shots are set shots in which their feet are already positioned. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> The fact is we LOST AGAIN in the 1st round. No if, ands or buts about it. You can't do hypotheticals in this situation. I never liked JVG's coaching decisions, strategies or rotations. While you, FOO82, supported JVG and belittled Rock4life in the process. Again, JVG is TERMINATED now. I was the one who saw it coming </div> And again it's not like we were blown away. Did you see at the beginning of the season that Golden State would blow away dallas? I knew it would be close. I kinda thought we would lose from the beginning of the series. Durvasa thought that too. You even flamed Durvasa for even thinking that. You said we would beat Utah, and now you are the one backtracking and saying you knew all along we would lose. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Bla...Bla...Bla...This had nothin to do with salary. JVG, the one who got fired, was the problem all along. Remember, Bonzi's the one who's been asked to be back on the team. If his attitude was so terrible I'm sure Alexander wouldn't have said he would love Bonzi back in a Rockets uniform. He has his health back, a chance at training camp, and a new coach willing to use him the right way. Too bad ur guy JVG couldn't get the job done NOTE: You said Bonzi played poorly the "whole season". That's not true. But maybe you weren't thinking. I'll let you slide this time. </div> Again, you must be incredibly....nm. If you can't see that Bonzi wasn't upset over his contract, and if you can't see that affected his attitiude and his play, you really need help. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> No Foo.....Wrong again. Fisher spent the most time on Tmac. Go back and youtube the games if you don't believe me. Moving along.........</div> Yes..in the games that we won, Fisher guarded him. Later on, Kirelenko switched on to tmac. In fact Fisher didn't really get all that much pt in the second half the series. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Bonzi played a few games for us, BIG DEAL. We didn't get to really see him at his best. Due to our former coach's silly grudges. I still didn't see him as a poor defender this year. Luther however, a different story. </div> Bonzi was slow on defense. Period. I've counted so many times in which players would burn by him. Then again, you see Juwan as a great defender, so I'm not going to take your judgement on defense seriously. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> JVG made no effort to speak to Bonzi at all. He quickly blackballed Bonzi from the team and foolishly decided that Bonzi didn't fit. Thank heavens he's not coaching us anymore</div> Tell me why is it the coaches problem to deal with Bonzi? You still haven't responded to my analogy of the boss. JVG IS THE BOSS. YOU LISTEN TO YOUR BOSS AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. IF YOU CAN"T GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS. If your boss is a real asshole, and you get fired for your refusal to listen to him or follow what he says, you only have yourself to blame. There are 2 types of people. Those who blame themselves for their mistakes and try to correct them (Yao Ming). The other type of people blames other people (you). This is pointless. You are clearly ignoring the points that I provided for you, while spouting out the same **** against me without even reading or comprehending my explanation. There no point arguing with you. If you want to carry out a debate, you need to address all points, not pick and choose, and then reinterpret the opposing sides words.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Again, You are arguing semantics and wording. My whole season doesnt mean all 82 games. My whole season means the 2006-2007 season. Bonzi played 28 games which is roughly 1/3rd of the whole season. But that doesnt change the fact that he did play poorly in those games.</div> I didn't switch ur words around Foo. You said "Bonzi played poorly the whole season". That's not true. He only played 28 games and didn't finish many of those. Can you say rush to judgement <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Again, why does the coach have to initiate everything? JVG already made his expectations clear. If Bonzi did not want to step up to it. That is purely his fault. Again, this JVG's team, not Bonzi's team.</div> Um, because he's the coach When Bonzi was healthy (for atleast 2-3months) and ready to play, he was held inactive by who? THE COACH. Ur judging Bonzi Wells by the last eight games and totally ignoring what happened in between. I know what ur gonna say, "But he played poorly". But 28 games is no indicator of what a player is capable of. That's why this falls mostly on the coach, (well former coach) Jeff Van Gundy. Maybe if he'd given Bonzi a little more time to get established he'd still have a coaching job. Who knows <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, I don't pay attention to half the things you say considering that most of it is rubbish. All I remember you saying was that you wanted a ridiculous 10-man rotation.</div> Absolutley FALSE. Never in Justbball history has Rock4life ever mentioned a 10man rotation. Maybe you should pay more attention my friend I did however mention JVG opening up his 8-man rotation a tad bit. Maybe interchanging Luther with Bonzi (or Snyder) depending on the match up. Also maybe letting Bonzi spell Tmac early in the game. It wasn't a bad idea, if you really consider Tmac's minutes in the 4th quarter. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Again, you seem to fail in reading comprehension. My definition of jumpshooting does not match yours. You seem to take jumpshooting as anyone who shoots a ball. My definition requires that you able to create your own jumpshot. We run an inside out system in which the open man takes a 3. My definition requires something like a pick and roll pull up jumpshot. Or an off the dribble pull up jump shot. Besides tmac and rafer, no one else on our team really does that. I do not classify open 3's as a jumpshooting team. I do not classify Yao's low post fadeaways or hooks as a jumpshot either. My definition is closer to the stuff Deron Williams pulls off on the pick and roll. Tell me, why do players take jumpshots? It is to get over the defender guarding them. We are hardly shooting shots over defenders heads. Most of our shots are set shots in which their feet are already positioned.</div> Um, that's why it's a JUMPshot It's really not that hard. Observing the Rockets style of play, it's easy to see we get most of our shots off screens. Even Yao's game is mostly midrange. Now let's say Yao's not in, then who's our penetrator? Tmac's unwillingness to drive the ball more often was his BIGGEST criticism from fans. Yes he showed flashes, I know. But he definatley didn't attack like he should of (and he's our only penetrator). Utah on the other hand got deep posts from multiple players. Deron Williams attacked Skip the whole series, while Hapring repeatley caught Mcgrady down low (and let's not talk about Boozer either) Utah did take jumpshots but mostly off penetration or double teams. Our jumpshots were mainly forced with a hand in the face. Again, ur notion that they shot more jumpshots than we did is TERRIBLE. They simply got better %shots then we did. Which is a key contributor in why we lost. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And again it's not like we were blown away. Did you see at the beginning of the season that Golden State would blow away dallas? I knew it would be close. I kinda thought we would lose from the beginning of the series. Durvasa thought that too. You even flamed Durvasa for even thinking that. You said we would beat Utah, and now you are the one backtracking and saying you knew all along we would lose.</div> I actually predicted Golden State would beat Dallas in 6, and that was before that series. It's documented if you wanna re-read my postsI intially thought we'd beat Utah considering Bonzi would play. But he didn't, and we lost <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Again, you must be incredibly....nm. If you can't see that Bonzi wasn't upset over his contract, and if you can't see that affected his attitiude and his play, you really need help.</div> Why would Bonzi let his contract slow him? Don't you know he'd be getting a BETTER contract considering how he played this season. Which means he'd really wanna prove himself this year. Think about it. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes..in the games that we won, Fisher guarded him. Later on, Kirelenko switched on to tmac. In fact Fisher didn't really get all that much pt in the second half the series.</div> WRONG..WRONG...WRONG...Fisher did an incredible job on Mcgrady. Go back and watch the games, I'm right, ur wrong. Kirilenko did NOT guard Mcgrady most of the time. Challenge this if you dare! <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi was slow on defense. Period. I've counted so many times in which players would burn by him. Then again, you see Juwan as a great defender, so I'm not going to take your judgement on defense seriously.</div> I've counted times where he got steals and blocks, so I differ once again. And quote me where I EVER said Juwan was a "great" defender. PLEASE DO THAT FOR ME! I'm tired of you misquoting my words for personal gain. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Tell me why is it the coaches problem to deal with Bonzi? You still haven't responded to my analogy of the boss. JVG IS THE BOSS. YOU LISTEN TO YOUR BOSS AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. IF YOU CAN"T GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS. If your boss is a real asshole, and you get fired for your refusal to listen to him or follow what he says, you only have yourself to blame. There are 2 types of people. Those who blame themselves for their mistakes and try to correct them (Yao Ming). The other type of people blames other people (you).[/QOUTE] Um, isn't Lex Alexander the "Boss"? Ur quite a character Anyway, I've never argued that JVG ran the team. But when I harshly critized him early in the regular season, you bashed me. Now he's fired for the same reasons I critized him and ur backtracking. That's probably why ur frustrated [quote name='foo82;819961']This is pointless. You are clearly ignoring the points that I provided for you, while spouting out the same **** against me without even reading or comprehending my explanation. There no point arguing with you. If you want to carry out a debate, you need to address all points, not pick and choose, and then reinterpret the opposing sides words.</div> Not only have I answered all ur points, but I've actually corrected most of them. All ur doing is throwing a hissy fit. Answer my points for a change: -Bonzi played only 28 games. Was it a rush to judgment to say he played "poorly the whole season"? -You suppored JVG. He got fired for reasons I've been going over for years now. Do I deserve some credit? -You seemed pretty satisfied with JVG's 8-man rotation before the playoffs. I was highly skeptical and drew tons of criticism from a few of you. Do I deserve some type of credit for that as well? Especially after we needed that "extra body" against Utah? -Do you think JVG gave too much confidence in Luther going into the playoffs? Especially knowing that he's never played a playoff series. -Knowing what we know now, would Chuck Hayes REALLY start for any team in the NBA other than a JVG team? and FINALLY............ -You REALLY wouldn't KOBE BRYANT on ur team?
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't switch ur words around Foo. You said "Bonzi played poorly the whole season". That's not true. He only played 28 games and didn't finish many of those. Can you say rush to judgement </div> As I said earlier, you are nitpicking at words. I already told you what I meant. Whole season encompasses all the games he played in that season. If he played 28 games, then 28 games is his whole season. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Um, because he's the coach When Bonzi was healthy (for atleast 2-3months) and ready to play, he was held inactive by who? THE COACH. Ur judging Bonzi Wells by the last eight games and totally ignoring what happened in between. I know what ur gonna say, "But he played poorly". But 28 games is no indicator of what a player is capable of. That's why this falls mostly on the coach, (well former coach) Jeff Van Gundy. Maybe if he'd given Bonzi a little more time to get established he'd still have a coaching job. Who knows </div> I never argued what Bonzi was capable of. My argument was that he played poorly in those 28 games. I know what Bonzi was capable of, and I was hoping he would reach that, but unfortunately, he never pulled through. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Absolutley FALSE. Never in Justbball history has Rock4life ever mentioned a 10man rotation. Maybe you should pay more attention my friend I did however mention JVG opening up his 8-man rotation a tad bit. Maybe interchanging Luther with Bonzi (or Snyder) depending on the match up. Also maybe letting Bonzi spell Tmac early in the game. It wasn't a bad idea, if you really consider Tmac's minutes in the 4th quarter. </div> You wanted Bonzi+Snyder in addition to the 8 man rotation. 2+8 = 10. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Um, that's why it's a JUMPshot It's really not that hard. Observing the Rockets style of play, it's easy to see we get most of our shots off screens. Even Yao's game is mostly midrange. Now let's say Yao's not in, then who's our penetrator? Tmac's unwillingness to drive the ball more often was his BIGGEST criticism from fans. Yes he showed flashes, I know. But he definatley didn't attack like he should of (and he's our only penetrator). Utah on the other hand got deep posts from multiple players. Deron Williams attacked Skip the whole series, while Hapring repeatley caught Mcgrady down low (and let's not talk about Boozer either) Utah did take jumpshots but mostly off penetration or double teams. Our jumpshots were mainly forced with a hand in the face. Again, ur notion that they shot more jumpshots than we did is TERRIBLE. They simply got better %shots then we did. Which is a key contributor in why we lost. </div> We don't get most of our shots from screens. Tmac gets most of his shots from screens. All the other shooters usually tend to only shoot wide open shots (with the exception to rafer who does whatever the hell he feels like). Luther head doesn't seem to like to shoot off the dribble. Neither does Battier. Tmac in the series against Utah attacked the basket tons of times, which explains why he went to the freethrow line so many times. I consider shots that are taken wide open to be set shots, in which they have to get position to shoot. Deron Williams didn't only attack skip. He got tons of shots off of screens in which skip was unable to get around. We had more points within 10 feet of the basket then Utah. I actually counted them to post it in the Jazz forums because they were complaining that we went to the line too much, and that the refs were helping us. Jazz actually shot more shots outside 10 feet than we did. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I actually predicted Golden State would beat Dallas in 6, and that was before that series. It's documented if you wanna re-read my postsI intially thought we'd beat Utah considering Bonzi would play. But he didn't, and we lost</div> Trust me, we wouldn't have won with Bonzi in his current condition. If he played how he did in Sacramento, then I'm with you. But from his play this season, I highly doubt it. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Why would Bonzi let his contract slow him? Don't you know he'd be getting a BETTER contract considering how he played this season. Which means he'd really wanna prove himself this year. Think about it. </div> If he wanted to prove himself this year. Why did he act the way he did? Tell me this then. Do you honestly believe there was nothing Bonzi could have done to improve his situation? Bonzi didn't exactly try his hardest. He also didn't exactly seem to want to "prove" himself this year either. His biggest obstacle wasnt JVG, it was his ego. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> WRONG..WRONG...WRONG...Fisher did an incredible job on Mcgrady. Go back and watch the games, I'm right, ur wrong. Kirilenko did NOT guard Mcgrady most of the time. Challenge this if you dare! </div> I said it before. Fisher didn't play much at the end of the series. AK got more playing time towards the end. AK did guard Tmac a lot at the end of the series. Why am I mentioning the end of the series? Because we won our first 2. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I've counted times where he got steals and blocks, so I differ once again. And quote me where I EVER said Juwan was a "great" defender. PLEASE DO THAT FOR ME! I'm tired of you misquoting my words for personal gain. </div> I also counted the many times he got burned. Well, maybe you didn't say great, but you said Juwan was just as good as Hayes. At least Hayes got in his opponents face and contested every shot. Rafer gets tons of steals. Would you argue he is a great defender? <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Um, isn't Lex Alexander the "Boss"? Ur quite a character </div> This just shows me you probably havent worked a day in your life. If you can't even realize that your boss might have a boss....well that's just sad. My boss isn't the CEO of the damn company. My boss has a boss, and his boss has a boss. Use your noggin. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Anyway, I've never argued that JVG ran the team. But when I harshly critized him early in the regular season, you bashed me. Now he's fired for the same reasons I critized him and ur backtracking. That's probably why ur frustrated </div> Of course I bashed you. You were coming up with all these silly ideas of what JVG should do which includes your ridiculous rotation that wouldn't work (Snyder,Bonzi, Tmac, Luther, Howard) or something like that. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Not only have I answered all ur points, but I've actually corrected most of them. All ur doing is throwing a hissy fit. Answer my points for a change: -Bonzi played only 28 games. Was it a rush to judgment to say he played "poorly the whole season"? </div> See above. You and I both know what I meant. You also got my point. You are just arguing over my choice of using the word "whole". You aren't even arguing the point I was trying to make. You are merely sidestepping the entire issue and focusing on what the definition of whole season is. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> -You suppored JVG. He got fired for reasons I've been going over for years now. Do I deserve some credit? </div> Deserver credit for what? Criticizing him? That isn't something exactly unique to you. You step over to the clutchfans forums and the majority of people criticize him. Him and Rafer are the two biggest objects of criticism. Tmac follows behind. Next is Yao. All coaches and players have their flaws. One thing you don't seem to focus on is that Defense wins playoffs. And JVG is one of the best coaches in terms of defense. We all know that his offensive scheme wasn't too great. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> -You seemed pretty satisfied with JVG's 8-man rotation before the playoffs. I was highly skeptical and drew tons of criticism from a few of you. Do I deserve some type of credit for that as well? Especially after we needed that "extra body" against Utah? </div> Um...I thought Snyder would be a part of that...And yes, I think he would have helped a lot. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> -Do you think JVG gave too much confidence in Luther going into the playoffs? Especially knowing that he's never played a playoff series. </div> Tbh, I never really fully liked Luther. In fact, I cringe whenever I see the ball in his hands. I do agree that Head probably should have gotten less minutes after it was apparent he was playing poorly. Before the series though, he was shooting phenomenally. <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> -Knowing what we know now, would Chuck Hayes REALLY start for any team in the NBA other than a JVG team?</div> Knowing what I know now is the same as know what I know then. My opinion of Hayes stays the same. I've already expressed my opinions on the issue. I've even said in the past, he won't really cut it on other teams. But with Yao and Tmac, he was a much better fit than Juwan was. Numbers proved it. You seem to dislike statistics, but statistics is nothing but overview of what happened. To deny the value of stats is to deny what happened. and FINALLY............ <div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> -You REALLY wouldn't KOBE BRYANT on ur team?</div> No, Simply because I don't like him. There's no other reason than that. Sure, he might make our team better, but I flat out dislike him. Always have, and always will.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> We had more points within 10 feet of the basket then Utah. I actually counted them to post it in the Jazz forums because they were complaining that we went to the line too much, and that the refs were helping us. Jazz actually shot more shots outside 10 feet than we did. </div> Hmmm...hard to believe, I want to see shot charts that back this statement up.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hmmm...hard to believe, I want to see shot charts that back this statement up.</div> Well think about it. Yao took a lot inside, and Tmac penetrated A LOT. Those two accounted for a lot of the shot attempts. This is excluding freethrows in which the majority of it was caused because Tmac drove and Yao going low post. On the other end. Boozer took quite a bit of midrange shots over Yao. He certainly wasn't going to post him up. There were also tons of screens set for Deron Williams. Reason why it seemed like we were taking more shots was simply because we took more 3 point shots. Our midrange game is pretty crappy. The Jazz did not rely on 3pointers, but had a great midrange game against us. Tmac, Yao, and Howard are the only people who shoot from midrange. Rafer and Luther do very seldomly. Hayes almost never. Battier is almost exclusively a 3 point shooter/post up jumphook.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well think about it. Yao took a lot inside, and Tmac penetrated A LOT. Those two accounted for a lot of the shot attempts. This is excluding freethrows in which the majority of it was caused because Tmac drove and Yao going low post. On the other end. Boozer took quite a bit of midrange shots over Yao. He certainly wasn't going to post him up. There were also tons of screens set for Deron Williams. Reason why it seemed like we were taking more shots was simply because we took more 3 point shots. Our midrange game is pretty crappy. The Jazz did not rely on 3pointers, but had a great midrange game against us. Tmac, Yao, and Howard are the only people who shoot from midrange. Rafer and Luther do very seldomly. Hayes almost never. Battier is almost exclusively a 3 point shooter/post up jumphook.</div> I don't think points in the paint were in our favor, I still would like to see hard evidence of what you're saying.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think points in the paint were in our favor, I still would like to see hard evidence of what you're saying.</div> I'm gonna go over it one day. Just too lazy to recount them all atm. Anyways, one thing stats don't pick up is fg attempts due to fouls. The difference in freethrow attempts were definately in our favor (and its not because of jumpshots). How else can you explain the fact that the close to dead last team in fta beat the first place team in fta? Unless, you really do believe the refs were calling in our favor. Just goto the espn website and do the shot chart for a generalized view. One interesting thing I did notice was that Jazz shot from pretty much everywhere on the court. You will notice Rockets shooting large clump of shots from a particular area ..probably due to the areas where Yao Ming is posting up.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm gonna go over it one day. Just too lazy to recount them all atm. Anyways, one thing stats don't pick up is fg attempts due to fouls. The difference in freethrow attempts were definately in our favor (and its not because of jumpshots). How else can you explain the fact that the close to dead last team in fta beat the first place team in fta? Unless, you really do believe the refs were calling in our favor. Just goto the espn website and do the shot chart for a generalized view. One interesting thing I did notice was that Jazz shot from pretty much everywhere on the court. You will notice Rockets shooting large clump of shots from a particular area ..probably due to the areas where Yao Ming is posting up.</div> Well went to ESPN and added up the shots made in the paint(Roughly) and thru the seven game series and we only outscored Utah by 2 points in the paint(108-106) The shot chart proved what "Rock4life" and myself have been saying. Under JVG we took WAY too many 3's, another thing you mentioned about Tracy, in game 7, 4th quarter he go into the paint once but he touched the ball 19x's. He didn't drve the ball as much as you think. Utah's offense is all inside the three point arc(Higher %) while ours was based on setting for the three and hoping it went down.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well went to ESPN and added up the shots made in the paint(Roughly) and thru the seven game series and we only outscored Utah by 2 points in the paint(108-106) The shot chart proved what "Rock4life" and myself have been saying. Under JVG we took WAY too many 3's, another thing you mentioned about Tracy, in game 7, 4th quarter he go into the paint once but he touched the ball 19x's. He didn't drve the ball as much as you think. Utah's offense is all inside the three point arc(Higher %) while ours was based on setting for the three and hoping it went down.</div> I wasn't questioning the amount of 3's we took. My point was that they were shooting more from outside 10ft than we were. The numbers you counted also did not take into the fouls created inside (since field goal attempts do not count when fouled, unless you make them). As for Tracy, he did penetrate a lot. Thats why he got so many fta (much more than usual).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr#7:</div><div class="quote_post">Well went to ESPN and added up the shots made in the paint(Roughly) and thru the seven game series and we only outscored Utah by 2 points in the paint(108-106) The shot chart proved what "Rock4life" and myself have been saying. Under JVG we took WAY too many 3's, another thing you mentioned about Tracy, in game 7, 4th quarter he go into the paint once but he touched the ball 19x's. He didn't drve the ball as much as you think. Utah's offense is all inside the three point arc(Higher %) while ours was based on setting for the three and hoping it went down.</div> Your arguments before the playoffs about us taking too many 3-pointers centered on us consequentially not getting to the free throw line. Against Utah, we got the line 6 more times a game.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Your arguments before the playoffs about us taking too many 3-pointers centered on us consequentially not getting to the free throw line. Against Utah, we got the line 6 more times a game.</div> But those stats are misleading because Yao was the only one who was gettin fouled. The rest of the team as a whole did a poor job of gettin to the charity stripe. Blurr has a valid point..........
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">But those stats are misleading because Yao was the only one who was gettin fouled. The rest of the team as a whole did a poor job of gettin to the charity stripe. Blurr has a valid point..........</div> You are forgeting tmac. A lot of the fouls on Yao was a result of him going too deep inside. Are you still doubting that we had more attempts inside the paint? Look at the shot charts. You will see Jazz shooting from all over the court. A lot of our baskets come from either inside or at the 3 point arc. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=270430010 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=270503026 Theres more. I just picked 2 of the games.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You are forgeting tmac. A lot of the fouls on Yao was a result of him going too deep inside. Are you still doubting that we had more attempts inside the paint? Look at the shot charts. You will see Jazz shooting from all over the court. A lot of our baskets come from either inside or at the 3 point arc. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=270430010 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=270503026 Theres more. I just picked 2 of the games.</div> Yes but not by much, Utah had almost as many attemps in the paint without a true post player. That's were the issue lies, Yao and the few times Tracy decided to drive make up the bulk of our inside scoring were as Utah had Williams, Boozer, Harpring and Milsap getting inside for lay ups. Were was that "Stiffling" JVG D at?
