Although I think this is obvious, it is a little strange to say. I rate Shaq second. Duncan's accomplishments completely overshadow others like Kobe, Iverson, etc.- MVPs, 1st team all nbas, 1st team defense, championships, championship MVPs. Ive actually got to put him ahead of Malone as the greatest PF ever as the chamionships are the seperation. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan- strange, but true. Can anyone here put up an argument for another nominee?
My bets on Duncan, just because he's still got a few more years in him and I don't see him having as sharp a decline as Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's between Shaq and Duncan. Hard to choose between the two.</div> Indeed. I'd rank Duncan in the same league as Bird (maybe better).
Duncan is a great player, but before you compare him to Jordan he needs to win at least 3 titles IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">GoSuns Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan is a great player, but before you compare him to Jordan he needs to win at least 3 titles IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!</div> Nobody's comapring him to Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's between Shaq and Duncan. Hard to choose between the two.</div> Agreed, it's between these two. However, I think Duncan has been far more consistent on both ends of the court. I don't feel Shaq ever lived up to his full potential. Shaq was capable of putting up the Wilt Chamberlain numbers if he wanted to. Shaq could probably average 30/20 in a season and pop off for some 50 or 60 point performances if he dedicated himself for a full season.
im not comparing him to jordan, as i think jordan is on another level. bird and magic are on another level too, but duncan is simply the next greatest in line.
Duncan has easily been the best player to build around since Jordan. One can argue for Shaq, but I think he wasn't consistent enough on defense and dedicated to the game on the levels that Duncan is. He's a game changer offensively and defensively.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Agreed, it's between these two. However, I think Duncan has been far more consistent on both ends of the court. I don't feel Shaq ever lived up to his full potential. Shaq was capable of putting up the Wilt Chamberlain numbers if he wanted to. Shaq could probably average 30/20 in a season and pop off for some 50 or 60 point performances if he dedicated himself for a full season.</div> The pace of the game does not allow Shaq to average 20 RPG unless he just dedicated himself to rebounding and was playing over 48 MPG, which wouldn't happen; and even then he'd just be barely breaking 20 RPG. He could've been a 28-30 PPG guy with 13-14+ RPG and 3+ BPG every year of his prime though, but he wasn't. I'm definately going with Duncan though, for their careers, I would rank Shaq slightly ahead of Duncan, 1-2 spots, but Duncan's consistency has been very nice in the post Jordan years.
<div class="quote_poster">og15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The pace of the game does not allow Shaq to average 20 RPG unless he just dedicated himself to rebounding and was playing over 48 MPG, which wouldn't happen; and even then he'd just be barely breaking 20 RPG. He could've been a 28-30 PPG guy with 13-14+ RPG and 3+ BPG every year of his prime though, but he wasn't. I'm definately going with Duncan though, for their careers, I would rank Shaq slightly ahead of Duncan, 1-2 spots, but Duncan's consistency has been very nice in the post Jordan years.</div> Why would pace effect Shaq's ability to average 20 rebounds a game? Shaq was never a factor on the offensive glass, which is where he should be able to make the most improvement in his rebounding numbers. Shaq only went after rebounds in his first few years in the league. He averaged close to 14 his rookie year, and normally you see a player improve each season. Maybe 20 is a little farfetched, how about 18?
If we're talking regular season basketball, I'd say Duncan because of effort. Playoffs are another story. The playoffs were usually when Shaq let the beast within out. Monster scorer, rebounder, shotblocker. You name it. So in terms of pure raw ability, I'd give the nod to Shaq. But 5 years down the road, I think it's easily gonna be Duncan. His overall skillset is at a much higher level and is so more varied. So when he loses most of his athleticism, he'll still be effective.
brian, nash needs to win a title first before you start comparing him to m.j. sorry thats just how other people will look at it. just like in pro football. people don't look too much at dan marino's career because he never won a title. even though he was great.
Tim Duncan has been the best player in the world since Shaq's last title run in 2002 and in my opinion is the best power forward of all time. You can put Tim Duncan on any team in the league and they are a playoff team. I do not think that you can say that about any other player in the league right now. So if there was a poll I would say that Tim Duncan has been the best player in the league since the second retirement of Michael Jordan and is one of the 5 best players that this league has ever had.
and if Kobe doesnt take his team out of the first or second round before retiring he is going to end up like Dominique. Remember, Kobe has three rings, but Shaq has 3 NBA finals MVPs. I would venture to say that with Phil Jackson as the Lakers coach and a prime Eddie Jones/Ray Allen/T-Mac in place of Kobe, the lakers still get their 3 (with each finals matchup being a breeze against indiana, philly, NJ).
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and if Kobe doesnt take his team out of the first or second round before retiring he is going to end up like Dominique. Remember, Kobe has three rings, but Shaq has 3 NBA finals MVPs. I would venture to say that with Phil Jackson as the Lakers coach and a prime Eddie Jones/Ray Allen/T-Mac in place of Kobe, the lakers still get their 3 (with each finals matchup being a breeze against indiana, philly, NJ).</div> Dominique has ZERO rings. How do you draw the conclusion of Kobe ending up like Nique? I never understood the argument if you replace Kobe with player A, B, or C the Lakers would still win a title. If you replace Shaq with Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan than Kobe would likely be winning titles with them. Kobe and Shaq was a dynamic the league has never seen before. They should have accomplished a lot more together, because at one point they were Player 1, and Player1A in the league. I think they're going to look back after retirement and regret a lot of decisions they made as players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan- strange, but true. Can anyone here put up an argument for another nominee?</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So if there was a poll I would say that Tim Duncan has been the best player in the league since the second retirement of Michael Jordan and is one of the 5 best players that this league has ever had. </div> I believe Tim is the best PF to play the game, BUT he's not top 5 imo....top 10 yes, but I still have (in no order) Magic Bird Michael Hakeem Wilt Kareem Oscar Russell and maybe Shaq ahead of him......Duncan is a great player but (and this is going to sound bad to some of you) he has played in one of the less competitive eras in basketball (when we're talking about team for team)...two of his title wins came against some mediocre (in other eras) New York and New Jersey teams
I think one of the reasons Duncan wouldn't be in my top 5 is because although he has 3 titles he has shown from time to time throughout his career to be somewhat timid (see the old laker battles and even the title against the pistons a couple seasons ago)....if I had a big game to win I think I'd take everyone on that list (my top 10 list) over him....
