<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well Duncan is better at winning if we wanna start. He is also a better rebounder.</div> better winner?....well considering a majority of Hakeems career was wasted because of mediocre teammates (and he won a title with mediocre talent around him) and the fact that he played in a much better era I can't agree with that one....rebounding?...if you consider .8 a significant difference I guess so (and once again you have to take in account the final years where Hakeems old age effected his rebounding numbers also) so really name "one" thing that Duncan just undoubtedly is better than Hakeem in.....he's not touching him defensively, and if you look at the stats he's not as good offensively (check the playoffs also).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol at Dream and Huevon going at it again.</div> I'm just interested because if you look at stats and their play against other big men of their time Hakeem is winning every single time...and I'm not even trying to be biased when I say this.
I'd give Duncan the edge over Hakeem simply because his rings span a greater period of time, which is really impressive to me. But Hakeem averaged 5.4 offensive boards per game in his ROOKIE SEASON.... that is more than ben wallace has ever done another season he averaged 14 rebounds....the guy is def. underrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd give Duncan the edge over Hakeem simply because his rings span a greater period of time, which is really impressive to me. </div> I'm serious when I say you have to take "eras" into account when you start using rings as an argument...seriously man the Nets and the Knicks???...........those teams were mediocre as hell....I think Duncan is the greatest PF of all time, but I won't use the ring argument on why I think he's better than Barkley or Malone, because Barkley and Malone had to face MUCH greater competition than Timmy.
I have never really thought about this until I saw this thread. Duncan is probably the best player since Jordan. Maybe one of the best power forward of all time, that's if you consider him as a powerforward. The guy is definitely underrated. People don't realize how important he is to his team. At first, before the playoffs, I was going for Nash to be MVP. But ever since I've been watching Jazz vs. Spurs series, it's amazing to know how different Spurs can be without Duncan. He is really valuable to his team, heck, more than Dirk Nowitzki. Besides Shaq and TD, there is really no other player that can be mentioned as one of the best since Jordan.
Tim Duncan, is in a league of his own out there. He gets the ball down low, and no on can stop him. I wonder though, if you where to put Hakeem in his prime, against Duncan right now, who would win. 1 game, head-head on Defence and Offence, back and fourth. I would give the edge to Duncan, becuase Duncan is the most clutch player in all of the NBA today. More then Kobe or LeBron or Arenas. Becasue those guys take shot, that arn't at a high percentage and are a big risk. Duncan I rather have the ball in the clutch then Kobe or LeBron.
its funny how finally this is being discussed on a higher platform cuz before this wasnt talked about as much but now all the guys who would be in this category like nash kobe and shaq are all out of the playoffs and theres only 1 true great player left in the playoffs now and thats duncan and its about time he got recognition
to Ford i would much rather have the ball in kobes hand in clutch because though hes not a PF he can still make a play and has done plenty of times and more then duncan. but in the head to head hakeem vs. duncan i would give hakeem the ups cuz hes the best shot blocker of all time and a very good offensive player. he stronger and bigger then duncan so i would expect him to win that
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1 game, head-head on Defence and Offence, back and fourth. I would give the edge to Duncan, becuase Duncan is the most clutch player in all of the NBA today</div> .....I'm going to be honest and say in this current era that Duncan should be doing what he's doing considering the comp he's played against...and clutch???...the same clutch guy who dissapeared in game 5 down the stretch a couple of years ago at detroit???...one of Duncans knocks how always been that he is kind of "soft" and "timid"....he's not a total cake (see Dirk) but throughout his career he has had his "not so clutch" moments. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan I rather have the ball in the clutch then Kobe or LeBron. </div> more than Lebron maybe yes...but Kobe?....I have to disagree on that one.
Duncan in the clutch over Kobe? You've got to be kidding me. Definitely over LeBron (the anti-clutch). Duncan is the best franchise piece since Jordan...the best talented player is without a doubt, 8x3.
Ok, Ill admit the over anixt with Duncan in the Clutch over Kobe, my bad. I think to replay to my own post, Hakeem should beat Duncan. And it's funny the bulls rather of taken Hakkem the Jordan, becuase to come across a big man like that was rare.
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, Ill admit the over anixt with Duncan in the Clutch over Kobe, my bad. I think to replay to my own post, Hakeem should beat Duncan. And it's funny the bulls rather of taken Hakkem the Jordan, becuase to come across a big man like that was rare.</div> Wasn't really a bad choice to take Hakeem. He got to the Finals before Jordan.
[quote name='THE DREAM;819822'].....I'm going to be honest and say in this current era that Duncan should be doing what he's doing considering the comp he's played against...and clutch???...the same clutch guy who dissapeared in game 5 down the stretch a couple of years ago at detroit???...one of Duncans knocks how always been that he is kind of "soft" and "timid"....he's not a total cake (see Dirk) but throughout his career he has had his "not so clutch" moments. Every player except probably Larry Bird has looked vulnerable throughout their career. Duncan is def. clutch.
He is clutch, but He is more a come out every game, always big numbers clutch. not a fourth quarter assiasn as much as kobe or Arenas.
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He is clutch, but He is more a come out every game, always big numbers clutch. not a fourth quarter assiasn as much as kobe or Arenas.</div> i dont think you understand what clutch means. clutch means doing what you gotta do when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. clutch isnt playing consistently every game from the 1st quarter. thats why in terms of clutch kobe is at another level with very few people if any that are currently in the nba.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">how...seriously man can you name "one" thing as far as basketball skills are concerned that you can say that Duncan is significantly better than Olajuwon???....one thing....you said offense and looking at the stats you lose that one (especially considering how Hakeems stats dropped off because of his bum play in the last days of his career)... </div> Did you see their first ten/eleven years? Duncan does have slightly better PER. Why didn't Duncan produce better offensive numbers? How did you come to that conclusion? Offensively he was slightly better, that means your notion that Duncan does "nothing" better is incorrect. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> yeah he didn't accomplish much....only 3 finals apperances, 2 rings, 1 mvp trophy, 2 finals mvp trophy,2 defensive player of the year, all time leading shot blocker, domination over the other big men of his time (something Timmy didn't do as well as Hakeem), the best center of his era, multiple all star appearances, multiple all first teams (overall and defensive), an olympic gold medal (would be two had he been a citizen in 92), top 10 in all time steals, boards,points, and block shots (the ONLY player to do so), </div> When I refer to "much" I was referring to winning. IMO, 3 rings (possibly four) is just as good as three finals appearances and 2 rings back then. I'd take a couple of MVPs over DPOY and one MVP. Kareem/etc. would technically be the All-Time Leading Shot blocker had the stat existed back then. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> quadruple double, etc......yeah that's not much </div> Did you just refer to one game BTW? Lol. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> are you serious my man....FA wasn't as big back then as it is now, therefore there were better teams....scoring a 100 points was something that was considered normal.....can you give me a reason on why this current era from a team to team basis is better than teams from the 80's and 90's?.....has Duncan had to face any team as good as the A. Celtics that the rockets lost to in the 80's B. The Laker team that the rockets beat in the 80's C. The Sonics,Suns,Spurs,Jazz,Bulls,Knicks,Pistons,Trailblazers, etc. do you think those Nets and Knick teams are better than any of the teams I just mentioned..........can you seriously tell me that. Yes I have stated before the NBA has a lot of great individual talent today, but teams as a "whole" were much better back then.....Duncan is a great player and has accomplished a lot but the era that he accomplished a lot of his superiority in wasn't as competitive as eras in the past. </div> Don't the Suns have a bunch of talent? The Lakers didn't prevent Duncan from getting a few more rings himself? How did you come to the intelligent conclusion that Hakeem was more of a winner so easily? Does Duncan have that much talent around him anyway? Right... Are you saying that Shaq + Kobe shouldn't be able to knock off Duncan? Shouldn't TD have gone to the Finals last year? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> like you stated earlier D Rob was still really good during the first tiitle run and even a couple of years ago there were a lot of people who thought Manu should've won finals MVP for his performance against Detroit....Duncan has always had a really good supporting cast around him, the fact that he could have an off series (like he has had during title runs) and the spurs still come out as victors says measures about the talent around him.....Tony Parker could possibly be a future HOF if he stays healthy.... </div> Look at Duncan's playoff numbers, they are more than comparable to his regular season numbers. Manu and Parker were small factors in the second title run, D-Rob was good but not the dominant force in the first title run. To say he had really good talent around him is a stretch. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> yes he is imo.............Birds mental toughness and clutch ability (along with his other basketball skills) gives him a big edge over Duncan in my book.</div> So Bird can do more at the end of games but isn't as good of a defender. I wouldn't say so quickly that he was the better player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> chemistry wasn't the biggest problem....the fact that they didn't have Horace Grant or Rodman is why they struggled to beat the magic in the 2nd round</div> Possibly... Isn't this a bit off topic anyway? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> it was a little post humor my man...I never said PPG was the reason I say Shaq > Duncan, I just used his ppg to support part of my argument...</div> So PER is heavily flawed but PPG isn't? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">.....I'm going to be honest and say in this current era that Duncan should be doing what he's doing considering the comp he's played against...and clutch???...the same clutch guy who dissapeared in game 5 down the stretch a couple of years ago at detroit???...one of Duncans knocks how always been that he is kind of "soft" and "timid"....he's not a total cake (see Dirk) but throughout his career he has had his "not so clutch" moments.</div> Could you be any more vague? Did you refer to a single game, again? Lol once more.
So Bird can do more at the end of games but isn't as good of a defender. I wouldn't say so quickly that he was the better player. Well he's not a great 1 on 1 defender, but as a team defender he was excellent. His Steals per game weren't that bad. Plus guarding guys like Dominique Wilkins isn't that easy.
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So Bird can do more at the end of games but isn't as good of a defender. I wouldn't say so quickly that he was the better player. Well he's not a great 1 on 1 defender, but as a team defender he was excellent. His Steals per game weren't that bad. Plus guarding guys like Dominique Wilkins isn't that easy.</div> "Team Defense" isn't the most valuable aspect of playing defense though. Duncan has a good edge here.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Team Defense isn't the most valuable aspect of defense though. Duncan has a good edge here.</div> Oh yes it is. Team Defense is the most important kind of defense. Wait huevonkiller who do you think is better Bird or Duncan?
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yes it is. Team Defense is the most important kind of defense. Wait huevonkiller who do you think is better Bird or Duncan?</div> And that's why most of the DPOYs are interior defenders? Who here thinks Bird is a comparable defender? Duncan doesn't play great Team Defense as well? There really is nothing to argue about as far as Defense is concerned. As for who out of the two is better, it's tough to say and I'm not really interested in discussing that at the moment.
