<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who here thinks Bird is a better defender? Duncan doesn't play great Team Defense as well? What are you arguing about? As for who out of the two is better, it's tough to say and I'm not really interested in discussing that at the moment.</div> Did I say that Bird was the better defender. LOL You are making up things now. I said Bird is not as bad defensively as you think he is.
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did I say that Bird was the better defender. LOL You are making up things now. I said Bird is not as bad defensively as you think he is.</div> You are misleading people imo. Bird might not be a bad defender but like KG, he doesn't excel at the most important aspect of defense. I never implied that you meant Bird was a better defender...
It is difficult to compare them because one is a small forward and another is a power forward/ center. Duncan has the edge defensively, offensively its close but Bird is more versatile. Bird's court vision is superior and he does come up bigger in bigger games. IMO you are overrating Duncan slightly
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yes it is. Team Defense is the most important kind of defense. Wait huevonkiller who do you think is better Bird or Duncan?</div> ok, Team Defense is important. But to have tema Defense, everyone on your team needs to be a great defender, individually. To the bulls improved vastly becuase Ben Wallace is a great interior defender. Marcus Camby had a great year, interiorlly. Huevonkiller is right. Most winners, are interior, because the block is the biggist form of defense.
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It is difficult to compare them because one is a small forward and another is a power forward/ center. Duncan has the edge defensively, offensively its close but Bird is more versatile. Bird's court vision is superior and he does come up bigger in bigger games. IMO you are overrating Duncan slightly</div> You can't overrate Duncan, because he has done things that allow him to be talked about in a way that isn't over-rating him. You can compare. KG is a complete PF, he dosn't wait in the paint. He could play PG if his handles got better. HE also has great court sense, Hence all the Triple Doubles...Duncan dosn't have an edge. He is a better defender then KG or Bird, IMO and can block, come down with it and make a play.
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It is difficult to compare them because one is a small forward and another is a power forward/ center. Duncan has the edge defensively, offensively its close but Bird is more versatile. Bird's court vision is superior and he does come up bigger in bigger games. IMO you are overrating Duncan slightly</div> KG is better than Duncan offensively, and a better defender than Bird. Yet people consider Duncan to be better, so I do think Duncan vs Bird is a tough call to make.
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You can't overrate Duncan, because he has done things that allow him to be talked about in a way that isn't over-rating him. You can compare. KG is a complete PF, he dosn't wait in the paint. He could play PG if his handles got better. HE also has great court sense, Hence all the Triple Doubles...Duncan dosn't have an edge. He is a better defender then KG or Bird, IMO and can block, come down with it and make a play.</div> So who is better someone answer it Duncan or Bird?
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So who is better someone answer it Duncan or Bird?</div> Duncan, IMO. But, the thread isn't Who is better, Duncan or Bird. It's Duncan-Greatest PLayer since Jordan. And I think he is, along with Shaq. Burd is a great player Top 50 all time. But Duncan will be ahead of him if they re-do the list, which I think they will.
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan, IMO. But, the thread isn't Who is better, Duncan or Bird. It's Duncan-Greatest PLayer since Jordan. And I think he is, along with Shaq. Burd is a great player Top 50 all time. But Duncan will be ahead of him if they re-do the list, which I think they will.</div> Where do you think Duncan ranks all time?
<div class="quote_poster">Ford_11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan, IMO. But, the thread isn't Who is better, Duncan or Bird. It's Duncan-Greatest PLayer since Jordan. And I think he is, along with Shaq. Burd is a great player Top 50 all time. But Duncan will be ahead of him if they re-do the list, which I think they will.</div>Who the hell is Burd?
Whoever thinks Duncan is not clutch needs to watch some of the tighter Spurs games again. I remember in the PHX series, I forget which game it was, but Duncan kept knocking down consecutive tough shots and demanded the ball with the game on the line. However, Kobe is still my #1 option in the clutch.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Whoever thinks Duncan is not clutch needs to watch some of the tighter Spurs games again. I remember in the PHX series, I forget which game it was, but Duncan kept knocking down consecutive tough shots and demanded the ball with the game on the line. However, Kobe is still my #1 option in the clutch.</div> Baron Davis, Paul Pierce and Chauncey Billups are just 3 players off the top of my head that are WAY more clutch than Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who the hell is Burd?</div> Maybe, that's how they spell it in Canada? :shrug: I know they spell a lot of things funny.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Baron Davis, Paul Pierce and Chauncey Billups are just 3 players off the top of my head that are WAY more clutch than Kobe.</div> Don't forget Horry. The King of clutch.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Don't forget Horry. The King of clutch.</div> In my opinion, Robert Horry is the most clutchest player in the history of NBA following Reggie Miller.
Those who rate Kobe as most clutch should reer to a recent Wall Street Journal (WSJ or NY TIMES- i forget) article. They rated current stars in terms of clutch play - top 5 and worst 5. Lebron was on the worst 5, suprise suprise. D-wade was ranked #1 as most clutch player today. Areneas was 4th and Kobe was 5th. A number of factors were considered. IMO, Hakeem gets the nod over Duncan, and Bird is definately better than both- no doubt there. Shaq and Duncan post Jordan are close, but Duncan will definately win that debate in 2 years. What about Kobe in comparision to Dr. J. To tell you the truth I think the Dr. was a bit overrated as his teams were stacked- even his 80s teams were stacked and he only won 1(or was that Moses' championship?). I really think Kobe has to LEAD his team to at least an NBA Finals to be considered a top 20 all time player.
[quote name='mmonte4;820526']What about Kobe in comparision to Dr. J. To tell you the truth I think the Dr. was a bit overrated as his teams were stacked- even his 80s teams were stacked and he only won 1(or was that Moses' championship?). I really think Kobe has to LEAD his team to at least an NBA Finals to be considered a top 20 all time player.[/QUOTE] That's unfair, and I can't let you slide on that. The guy has 3 rings under his belt. People say "well it's because he had Shaq" but Jordan had Pippen, Bird had Mchale, and Magic had Kareem. Kobe is the best shooting guard in NBA history other than MJ. Nobody has consistently put up numbers like Kobe from his position.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">[quote name='mmonte4;820526']What about Kobe in comparision to Dr. J. To tell you the truth I think the Dr. was a bit overrated as his teams were stacked- even his 80s teams were stacked and he only won 1(or was that Moses' championship?). I really think Kobe has to LEAD his team to at least an NBA Finals to be considered a top 20 all time player.[/QUOTE] That's unfair, and I can't let you slide on that. The guy has 3 rings under his belt. People say "well it's because he had Shaq" but Jordan had Pippen, Bird had Mchale, and Magic had Kareem. Kobe is the best shooting guard in NBA history other than MJ. Nobody has consistently put up numbers like Kobe from his position.</div> Best shooting guard in NBA History!?!?!?!? He was Shaq's Pippen/Worthy/McHale - none of whom are in the top 20!!! Bryant may be on par with John Stockton as far as all time greats. I put him somewhere between Dr. J and Clyde Drexler - I think that is a fair place. I rank stockton right around #20. How is Kobe better than Jerry West, Big-O? Youve got to be kidding if you think Kobe is above those guys. Kobe is a top 10 guard of all time - definately not in the top 5 though.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That's unfair, and I can't let you slide on that. The guy has 3 rings under his belt. People say "well it's because he had Shaq" but Jordan had Pippen, Bird had Mchale, and Magic had Kareem. Kobe is the best shooting guard in NBA history other than MJ. Nobody has consistently put up numbers like Kobe from his position.</div> If Jordan only cared about numbers and not wins, he'd do exactly what Kobe did and more. Kobe's putting up numbers, but he's losing. Anyone can jack up shots, score a bunch of points, and lose. In Kobe's 35.4ppg year he averaged an insane amount of shots and free throws per game. And like someone else said, Kobe was Shaq's Pippen. Not the other way around. And I don't share your opinion that Kobe is the 2nd best shooting guard ever. I'd take Clyde Drexler before I take Kobe. At least he lead a team to the Finals where he was the 1st option. Kobe is a volume shooter and an average defender on his best night. This year however he was consistently a terrible defender.
