As I said, I've got no basis for this; I'm just putting it out there: According to Chad Ford, Sacramento was targeting Roy Hibbert with the #10 pick. Now that Hibbert's going back to Georgetown, they're going to start looking for someone else. If Spencer Hawes (and Mike Conley) are taken before #10, I think they'll start looking to deal the pick. Now, a lot depends on who Sacramento hires as their next head coach and whether he's in place before the draft. But, if their intent is to hire someone who thinks he can reform Artest, then they have to move Bibby. The team either has to be Artest's or Bibby's, it can't be both. The Warriors could look to deal O'Bryant and the #18 to Sacramento. That way the Kings get their big man plus they can take a pg at #18 if they're really serious about parting ways with Bibby. Jarvis Crittenton and maybe even Acie Law should be available at #18. There are 10 guys that I either really like or I think will definitely be gone by the #10. Here's my wishlist: 1. Oden 2. Durant 3. Jianlian 4. Horford 5. Conley 6. B. Wright 7. J. Wright 8. Brewer 9. Noah 10. Green Other than Conley (who they don't need), if the Warriors got any of the guys on that list, I'd be ecstatic. At least one (and probably two or three) of the guys on that list is going to be available at #10. Noah, B. Wright, and J. Wright would all be perfect fits for the Warriors at pf.
Sounds interesting, and we do essentially move up for nothing... I'd be reluctant to trade our 18, though. Mullin has proven he can get a quality international big (Biedrins) and hidden talent (Ellis) and I want him to have every opportunity to do so. If Sacramento could be coerced to give us the pick for O'Bryant and Pietrus, maybe?
I hope Yi falls to the Warriors or we trade up by getting rid of decent starting or role players that I don't really like (Al Harrington). Aside from the lousy music on one of Yi's highlight videos on YouTube, I was very impressed to see a 7 foot guy move so quickly (like a danged guard). But... I don't think Al Harrington is going to move anybody to trade down if Yi's a top 5 pick for sure. I just hope poor workouts and his agent getting involved force him to get passed up on and then eventually fall to the Warriors. Luckily, he's not a center, and the debate between the defintion of what a good "tweener" is, rides on. Is he versatile/skilled enough to redefine an existing nba position to the point where nobody can contain him or is he a guy that doesn't fit any position? Ah, I don't care about that, it just means that if we draft him, Baron Davis could get in the all-star game, and Yi as a warrior would definitely get into the all-star game so he could start next to Yao. The first Warriors all-star in a decade! Thx to China and their enormous population, of course.
Does everyone think POB is "nothing?" I mean, we got him #9 -- why will we do any better this year at #10? If we trade last year's #9 pick (plus this years #18 pick) for this years #10 pick, how does that make sense for this team, unless we're getting a sure thing? I mean, if you had the #9 and the #18 picks in this year's draft, would you trade them both for the #10? Obviously the answer to that rhetorical question is no. I know the 2007 draft is different from the 2006, but nonetheless we've seen so little of POB, we have to consider that he still was our lottery pick from last year. I mean, Julian Wright, Jeff Green and Joakim Noah are nice prospects, but are they really that much better than the potential of POB plus what we can get at #18? IMO, no.
I guess I'm selling O'Bryant a little short. I did like the 5 minutes of playing time I saw out of him. It looked like he could really jump for his size. I dunno. Whatever will happen will happen, I guess I needn't bother speculate. *edit - after reading that, it sounds really smarmy. not meant to be*
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Does everyone think POB is "nothing?" I mean, we got him #9 -- why will we do any better this year at #10? If we trade last year's #9 pick (plus this years #18 pick) for this years #10 pick, how does that make sense for this team, unless we're getting a sure thing? I mean, if you had the #9 and the #18 picks in this year's draft, would you trade them both for the #10? Obviously the answer to that rhetorical question is no. I know the 2007 draft is different from the 2006, but nonetheless we've seen so little of POB, we have to consider that he still was our lottery pick from last year. I mean, Julian Wright, Jeff Green and Joakim Noah are nice prospects, but are they really that much better than the potential of POB plus what we can get at #18? IMO, no.</div> Three things: 1) O'Bryant doesn't fit with the Warriors style under Nelson. I still think he's a good prospect, but he's just not a good fit for this team. 2) This year's draft is MUCH better than last year's. Think about it, Joakim Noah was supposed to be a top 3 pick last year. His drop to the mid to late lottery doesn't have as much to do with him having a bad year this year as it does with there being so many more great players this year. Everyone last year even said that if Noah waited until 2007 to come out, he'd have no shot at #1, because that was going to Oden. 3) You have to pay a premium for the unknown. No one knows who the best players will be from this draft. Oden and Durant are about as close to sure things as you get, but they aren't guarantees. It gets even murkier when you start looking at other prospects. In five years, we'll look back and say X team was CRAZY to draft Y player so high, even if it didn't seem so at the time.
<div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">3) You have to pay a premium for the unknown. No one knows who the best players will be from this draft. Oden and Durant are about as close to sure things as you get, but they aren't guarantees. It gets even murkier when you start looking at other prospects. In five years, we'll look back and say X team was CRAZY to draft Y player so high, even if it didn't seem so at the time.</div> I agree with your first two points; I can see POB having problems in Nellie-ball, and I do understand this is a deeper draft than 2006. But your #3 point actually supports my logic, I think: why give up value to trade up, when you can't be sure what you're going to get? Especially when you may land a player at #18 who could make as big an impact as anyone at #10? I mean, we could easily trade up, draft McRoberts at #10 and then in a few years have the whole league laughing at GS for drafting him so high. I think the big thing to determine here is the value of POB. Is he a prospect, still? I'd have to argue that we just haven't seen enough, yet... his potential is about as murky as the prospects in this year's draft -- who knows, he could turn into a star, or a bust... But he did do well in the NBDL league, which is a start, and Mully/Nellie did bring him back up (for whatever reason). I'm not saying POB is the messiah (I actually argued that we should have drafted Marcus Williams over POB at the time). But IMO we've seen too little thus far to say that he's NOT a #9 pick anymore. To me, until there is evidence to the contrary, POB is still a lottery pick. To me, his status is exactly what it was on draft night a year ago. He's a lottery pick -- otherwise, why did they draft him in the first place? So, in making any trades, I just wouldn't consider POB a toss in yet. I'd equate him to a lottery pick, something that is a true commodity in the NBA. To give him up now, just to move up a few notches in a murky draft with many unknowns... it could payoff, but it's probably a bit too risky IMO. Of course, GMs don't make their money playing it safe... we should have drafted Amare, lol! You do have to take risks to be good, you do have to make gambles.... But I think by the same token, why not take a gamble on the guy you drafted... take a risk, roll the dice on POB -- he could turn out to be a terrific starter for you... plus, you'll still have the #18 to fall back on... put both eggs in one basket, get a #10 that ends up busting, and then you're out cold. That's not to say I am adamantly against trading POB in the right deal, of course, but just to move up a few notches doesn't do it for me. I can't say I'm an expert on this year's draft class, though.. If there's a guy at #10 who seems like a definate winner, by all means I'd like to know -- I'm still trying to do my homework on these guys...
Anybody for POB, Al Harrington for Charlie V and Dan Gadzuric? Personally, I'd rather see what POB can become, but you know Nelson... he doesn't like traditional bigs or centers in general. But, I would really hate it if POB turned out to be a really good center and he was the missing piece to get a championship ring. Don Nelson ball just doesn't win championships IMO because they try to aim for one tempo and that only beats teams up to a certain point in the playoffs. We saw it when Nelson was last coaching here over a decade ago. All perimeter driven and transition offense, limited defense. Anyway, I kind of like Charlie V's game. Plus Dan Gadzuric could be an ideal backup center for the run n' gun theme (athletic 240 pound, tall, lanky big men). I'm not sure how much it would actually improve the rebounding situation, but Gadzuric + Charlie V have to be better than no nba ready center or capable backup center and Al Harrington. Plus, Charlie V is a nice passer and he can play some center or even small forward. It would make possibly losing Zarko Cabarkapa easier for his fans. For our #18 pick, I hope we can get Nick Young or Tiago Splitter (as long as Splitter doesn't cost that much to buyout). Josh McRoberts could be interesting if it turns out that he's a better performer in the running game, but I really don't know what motivates him. I'd rather avoid him altogether because of the Duke hype, but him at #18 wouldn't be a bad pick, actually. He's not a sloth that can't even jump over a tic-tac at least and he's not a rockhead either. Great passer and dunker. Nice ballhandling too. The last guy I would probably want is Julian Wright. I like the kind of players that can create their own shot and set up other players, but can also play defense as well. The only knock about this guy is he's a disappearing act, his shot isn't that good, and he's only nailing low 60% from the stripe. Ehh.... I'm starting to think we don't need any more chokers at the foul line. I'll take Nick Young or Thad Young instead or if we want a Euro either Bellinelli or Rudy Fernandez. I hope the Warriors have some great scouts out there because dang... I don't really know any of these players, but they look interesting.
I am a draft freak, so I thought I'd throw out some info about prospects that addresses some of your points. Splitter's buyout is likely going to be too much to get him to the states this year unless it is a top 8ish pick due to the type of contract he would receive as teams can only contribute I think a little less than a million and the last I heard Tau wants around 5 million. Also, Fernandez is another guy that might want to hang around Europe another year if he is drafted in the lower part of the draft as he is a star on his team at the higher euroleague level and doesn't want to sit on the bench while he is trying to develop his consistency and defense (both things he needs to do to stick in the NBA). Belinelli had an interview about a year ago that said he didn't want to go to the NBA to sit on the bench as well, and thought that he would be able to go to the NBA and be able to "take over" the game once he reached 23-24. Belinelli really needs to work on his mid range game and defense for him to be worth picking, and he knows this, as he said so in another article I read from about the same time where in a Q&A with fans one dude just ripped him and that just stood out in my mind. I know I'm portraying both of these guys as being cocky, but it's mostly my wording since I'm trying to remember small quotes. I think both Fernandez and Belinelli would be great picks if this draft wasn't so deep, so I am kind of hoping Fernandez falls to the second round because of his unwillingness to come to America. That would be amazing to get him in the second, he would be ginobili redux. Similarly, I hope that Belinelli pulls out of the draft since he's got skills, and he's got ability, but he needs to work on himself and seems comfortable at the level he is at now. Also, he seems a bit like Dunleavy-consistent. He was shooting 44% from threes, 53% for twos (Euro stats break them up rather than do overall) and we are talking Ray Allen like shooting last year, where he shot an average of 10 threes per 48. For a 19 year old at the international three point line....yeah, sick..This year, he is hovering around 30% and shooting threes at a slightly higher pace. He is shooting only 44% from 2s. He is the key focus of the opposing defense, on a professional team with mostly guys at least 5-10 years older than him, so that has to be taken into account, but the guy's got work to do. Next year, if he can add a secondary skill like passing or rebounding, or even slashing to the basket and being a drive and dish type, he would be alot more value for us and the rest of the league I got more stuff to say about Young, Wright, McRoberts and POB so I'm gonna pull a CR2 and go into another post
Damn, I just typed an essay-like post and my computer crashed. anyways, quick version Nick Young=Kobe Bryant mid-range game, not good enough rebounder/defender/creator to look at his positives. Julian Wright=Awesome in every way (you'll probably see me elaborate this closer to the draft) sum up points: Athletic Terror on D Tells teammates where to go both on offensive and defensive sets Rebounds more than Hawes, Noah, B. Wright, and J. Green at the same age Guy is three days past his 20th birthday Makes similar passes to big man that Nellie ran for Biedrins earlier in the year Knows Zone really well Doesn't shoot bad threes, 1.36 points per shot (great considering he isn't a post up guy or a shooter and isn't great at the free throw line. i.e. lots of room for improvement.) Basically, he's efficient. Oh, and can dominate a game without shooting outside the 3pt line (very important, even if it's off tip ins) (see 33pt game against Missouri) McRoberts=I flip flop every day, so I hope someone else picks him Duke=bad Webber comparison without as much athleticism=bad Crying video=bad Duke=bad Dunks=good, Passion/Emotion=good, example: Dunk Contest when he was a HS senior. S+B/PF, the most common eval of defensive ability at this level is huge, as he's got 2.5 blocks a game, higher than I thought it would be. Problem is he fouls guys alot too, so upside is if he's suffering from curable Biedrins syndrome, then that stat will get even better. Bad side is if it doesn't, we've got tons of PF/C types that are picking up 4-6 fouls a game. Addressing trading POB, I am really against it, but I think if he does get traded, that it will mean you guys are right and if he doesn't that Nelson still likes him. I thought the same thing about Pietrus when we didn't draft Brewer last year. I really think POB does fit in Nelson's system because he did run a pretty good 3/4 court sprint in the combine before the draft. He can get out and run. He got injured at the beginning of training camp and I think that hurt him alot. He seems like a personable guy but not the type of guy that's going to exude confidence. Therefore, Nellie sees the person POB and not the player for a few weeks and then looks at him practicing and decides that he needs to be tough on this guy to get his motivation up. I have a similar personality to what I think I see in POB and I had problems with my college Track/XC coaches who had a similar style as Nellie. Anyways, getting long again. POB has an outside shot. He has outstanding rebounding and defensive potential. He's averaged 15.5 rebs/48 in the last three years between college and the NBDL. He's also 21 years old. He's got a 7'6 wingspan. He's still not done growing into his body and needs more conditioning. This time next year if he's not averaging 5/5 with better than average defense but still having foul trouble issues, then I will have problems that you guys are having. I just want him to get another shot as everyone knew this guy was going to take 2-3 years to even get into the starting lineup. It's easy for me to see Nellie looking at POB getting tired during practice, not showing that tenacity that biedrins shows, and label him a certain way. I am positive that once POB gets more weight in the right places, gets some endurance, that he will suprise people.
Great stuff flux, I pretty much feel the same way about a lot of these players. They got some interesting stuff, but I'm not really following these guys too closely under the microscope. The Euros might be risky anyway if they decide to stay back in their league, but I was hoping we could get our own San Antonio type pick with a Parker or a Ginobilli or a Fabricio Oberto. Then again... it might be better to avoid drafting Jiri Welsch part 2 or some shooter that doesn't quite meet the hype like Bostjan Nachbar. I really like Rudy Fernandez' game, but I think there's no way he can hang at shooting guard with the little amount he weighs. For American college players, I really wouldnt mind Josh McRoberts or Nick Young, but I totally agree they need to work on their games or get more consistent. There's things I really like about their games that could stand out on the nba level, and there's parts I think that don't. I think they've got some good upside though. Nick Young can shoot free throws at least and be an all-around type of guy if he wanted to and Josh McRoberts has good athleticism and passing ability and can score with either hand equally well (although I think he tends to favor one hand more than the other in-game which could disprove this positive aspect). And I agree Duke sucks. I hate Duke too! Overrated! I think we're not going to find any great talent with size at #18, but stranger drafts have happened and it's not like I really know anything outside of the top 5 power forwards or centers in this draft (for all we know Mullin could be targeting the next David West or David Lee who are very good role players). Personally, I still feel like if we can't get Splitter or it's not even feasible that Joakim Noah slips all the way to #18, I almost don't know if there's a big that fits our team to be taken at that number we have. I feel like we should take another guard (a swingman or a prototype two or a playmaking three) and find something to replace Pietrus with, but we still got Kelenna Azubuike who we could use for one year until the next draft or we trade for a dream shooting guard. I like Azu, the dude is unselfish and athletic and he's a decent defensive player for a guy with a decent wingspan for 6'5 (6'9). http://www.illiniboard.com/stories/nike_camp.php Earlier I said Azu had an average wingspan, but maybe that's average for the nba? Maybe his arms are short and his chest is wide because his arms don't look that long to me for some reason.
My current draft board, without Oden and Durant of course, goes like this.... Horford JWright Jeff Green Thad Young Thornton McRoberts Brandon Rush Nick Young Fernandez I'm starting to warm up to Thad, because of the likelihood of being in our range without a trade as well as the fact that he would play better as a 4 in a running system than as a 3 in the system he was in at GT, where he thought he needed to play on the wing to prove his metal to the NBA. Yeah, he failed that test, so he gets a HOF coach (hopefully) in Nellie telling him to get near the basketball and to work on dribbling skills before he can put the ball on the floor. He's got an outstanding crossover, just can't dribble in traffic for crap. I can go off on GTech games cause I saw at least 4, watching Thad the whole way. Like I said, draft freak On a tangent: Man, I wish Batum had stayed in the draft and remained in France playing for LeMans. That would have been perfect. He's got pietrus athleticism and frenchness/frenchousity and dunleavy "smarts" and skills. It's what we've all ways wanted!! I can understand him wanting a shot at #1 next year though.
<div class="quote_poster">StateofFlux Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My current draft board, without Oden and Durant of course, goes like this.... Horford JWright Jeff Green Thad Young Thornton McRoberts Brandon Rush Nick Young Fernandez I'm starting to warm up to Thad, because of the likelihood of being in our range without a trade as well as the fact that he would play better as a 4 in a running system than as a 3 in the system he was in at GT, where he thought he needed to play on the wing to prove his metal to the NBA. Yeah, he failed that test, so he gets a HOF coach (hopefully) in Nellie telling him to get near the basketball and to work on dribbling skills before he can put the ball on the floor. He's got an outstanding crossover, just can't dribble in traffic for crap. I can go off on GTech games cause I saw at least 4, watching Thad the whole way. Like I said, draft freak On a tangent: Man, I wish Batum had stayed in the draft and remained in France playing for LeMans. That would have been perfect. He's got pietrus athleticism and frenchness/frenchousity and dunleavy "smarts" and skills. It's what we've all ways wanted!! I can understand him wanting a shot at #1 next year though.</div> I like Jeff Green and Thad Young. I like Julian Wright, but what's up with the messed up free throws?
