Rick Bucher: Kobe "Demands" Trade

Ric Bucher is a fake he just wants fame

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Gators, plain and simple, Jermaine and Kobe give the Lakers a better shot at winning than Odom and Kobe. I'd do that trade in a heart beat. I know we would have to take Dunleavy or Murphy's contract, and I wouldn't mind that. L.A. would really push for Marquis Daniels, though.</div>

I agree with you there that JO and Kobe give them the best chance to win, but do you think that that would bring them back up to the top? I just think it's basically suicide for the Lakers franchise because personally I think teams such as Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, Utah, and Houston are better teams then LA with basically just Kobe and JO. Not to mention Portland, Golden State, and New Orleans are all on the rise and Denver could be dangerous with AI and Melo and their supporting cast for an entire season. Then don't forget the other team from LA. I just don't really see this trade benefiting the Lakers enough to sacrifice all chances to make a move for the next 3 years. I think this will move would cause the demise of the Lakers. If it doesn't work out they can't do any moves because they won't have any pieces really worth trading to get someone else. Basically if you do this move this will be your team for the next 3+ years regardless of how good/bad they do.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well my stance has changed since hearing Kobe's last interview. I really wish they would respect him and trade him to a team that give a damn about winning now. I'm fed up with this organization...it's disgusting, they're full of lying b*llsh*tters.</div>

It's hard to build a championship franchise man. It's not like it's easy and especially with the Lakers parts. It's not like every player is extremely talented. Like I've been saying they basically have 3 players that they can trade(if they are still building around Kobe): Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown's expiring contract, and Andrew Bynum. You need to sort of rebuild with these contracts and get players on their rookie deals or middle ranged contracts(like Artest), not 15-20 million dollar a year for 4-5 more years past their prime type guys or having some concerns about attitude or injuries. Instead of using Bynum to get a big name player(either past his prime and/or guy with questions with a huge contract), use him to trade up into the lottery with the deep draft this year or use him to try to get another first or a future 1st or something so that you actually have worthy talent to either put around Kobe or trade for the big time superstar that the Lakers traditionally do.

They are trying to make the team into a championship team. I guarantee you they aren't thinking to themselves how are we going to screw Kobe and either a) not get into the playoffs or get a 7-8 seed and get eliminated in the first round. They don't want to completely throw away the future for practically 1 or 2 seasons of possible WCF's and mediocrity after that. Again, do you really think that a lineup of Farmar, Kobe, Walton, ???(Cook/Vlad/Turiaf????), JO with absolutely no bench would be able to compete for a title? The trade is absolutely pointless UNLESS you feel like you can win a title with that team. Do you think you can win a title with that team?

Me being a Magic fan and always having to mutter those hated 4 words of "wait til next year" or "look at the future". Us Magic fans always have to look at the bright side of things, so we can see some of the things that could haunt the Lakers such as cap hell. I can see why they aren't handcuffing themselves. Laker fans are spoiled of always contending, always being in the playoffs, and never rebuilding. All the players that you mentioned Artest/Baron/Boozer/Kidd all had question marks at the time and they could have turned out bad and with their giant contracts(other than Artest) the Lakers would have been royally ******.(all caps btw) So I can see why they didn't trade some future pieces for him. There was no exit clause on these contracts and no one would be willing to take them if they failed in LA. If the Lakers made any of these trades(other than Artest) and the player failed then the Lakers would basically have set back their franchise at least 4-5 years.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The thing is though, you don't promise a player of Kobe Bryant's stature that you're going to go out and do everything possible to get him championship pieces, but tell Phil Jackson in his exit interview that the team is looking to build for the future and aren't that interested in building a championship team right away. You don't blatantly lie to Kobe Bryant like that. Dr. Buss promised him changes would be made. He told Kobe that even if he signed with CHI or LAC, that he was going to trade Shaq because there is no way in hell he was going to pay him 30 million a year. Kobe could've signed with the Bulls and they would have a core involving Hinrich and Deng (I don't think Gordon was in that year's draft, he might've been, though). He could've signed with the Clippers with a core of Brand, Maggette, and Kobe.

If the organization planned on mediocrity over the next 4-5 seasons, they should have mentioned it to Kobe. They shouldn't have promised him a contender. I don't want to sound like I'm all over Kobe's balls, because I'm sticking up for Odom and Walton here too, both players who want to win now. Does Walton want to re-sign with this team? I'm not so sure now. Reportedly, Sacramento is interested in him and would deal Artest in a S&T for Walton and a filler or two, but does the organization want to bring in Artest? They've got that option on the table again...they passed on it the first time, how will they react the second time. If things do work out with this trade and Walton, Cook, and a pick are traded for Artest that would give us a lineup of:

Farmar
Kobe/Evans
Artest/Vlad
Odom/Turiaf
Kwame/Mihm.

Hypothetically, if that deal works out they still have the pieces needed to acquire Jermaine O'neal. Say the ship Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown and the 19th pick for Jermaine, Murphy, and David Harrison. Would Indy do this? Well if the rumored offers for Jermaine are true, this is a top one. They get a draft pick, Odom, and Bynum and Kwame's expiring K. That definitely beats Theo Ratliff and the number 5 pick from Boston, considering how deep this draft is.

Our lineup:
Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant/Mo Evans
Ron Artest/Vladimir Radmanovic
Jermaine O'neal/Troy Murphy/Ronnie Turiaf
Chris Mihm/David Harrison

Let's say we take that lineup into the FA signing period. We've got the MLE to offer. We split it between Steve Blake and Jamaal Maagloire (I don't know how much he'll command, doesn't deserve much)...

Steve Blake/Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant/Mo Evans
Ron Artest/Vladimir Radmanovic
Jermaine O'neal/Troy Murphy/Ronnie Turiaf
Jamaal Maagloire/Chris Mihm/

With this lineup, you got a good shot at contending for a title, something the fans, the media, Kobe and Phil want. However, it's something that Jim Buss probably doesn't like because when he becomes the full-pledged owner of the team, he'll be left in a salary cap hell. Also if all these moved did happen, we'd be returning one starter from last year...how would these players adapt to Jackson's triangle offense? If we can make at least one move to try and improve this team...we should. Whether it be Jermaine or Artest, we need to do something. As it is, I doubt we make the playoffs next year with the West improving even more through the draft and probably through free agency.

Something working against these moves, specifically the FA moves? Money. Too often MLE players are getting more than they're worth. Jared Jeffries, for example. Luke Walton is in a Jared Jeffries situation. If he wants to leave L.A. to sign a contract worth 7-8 million a year, it's going to be on a table because people will pay that price for a role player who has occasional offensive outbursts and a high basketball IQ. That's why I think it might be hard to split the MLE between Blake and Maagloire. Maagloire is a solid center who can give you 10 and 10 a game. People will pay money for that.

Ah, who am I kidding? A lot has to go right for that to be even fathomable. I forgot we've got:
<ul>
[*]Mitch Kupchak who has no power in the organization as our General Manager,
[*]Jerry Buss who is out with some 23 year old bimbo getting a DUI ticket as our owner,
[*]Jeanie Buss who is pissed off at her brother Jim Buss for calling out Phil Jackson as our PR Manager,
[*]Jim Buss who is mad at Jeanie Buss for calling him out and is striving to build his own legacy in the future with this team as our future owner and basically the most powerful man in our organization,
[*]Phil Jackson who wants more say in team moves and wants to win now as our head coach,
[*]and an unhappy superstar in Kobe Bryant who wants to win now.
[/list]
It's just frustrating right now, because as you said, Laker fans aren't used to being in the middle of the pack. It's even harder when we've got the pretty much undisputed most talented player in the game right now. It's painful to watch his prime wasted. I hope Orlando can build around Dwight the right away, unlike we've done around Kobe.

Kobe and Phil deserve better than how they've been treated by Laker management. They've been kept in the dark and lied to, they deserve to have a fair opportunity to return to greatness.</div>

well said bro.

it's unfortunate that the moves you mentioned (all feasible btw) will probably never happen because they make too much goddamn sense.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The thing is though, you don't promise a player of Kobe Bryant's stature that you're going to go out and do everything possible to get him championship pieces, but tell Phil Jackson in his exit interview that the team is looking to build for the future and aren't that interested in building a championship team right away. You don't blatantly lie to Kobe Bryant like that. Dr. Buss promised him changes would be made. He told Kobe that even if he signed with CHI or LAC, that he was going to trade Shaq because there is no way in hell he was going to pay him 30 million a year. Kobe could've signed with the Bulls and they would have a core involving Hinrich and Deng (I don't think Gordon was in that year's draft, he might've been, though). He could've signed with the Clippers with a core of Brand, Maggette, and Kobe.

If the organization planned on mediocrity over the next 4-5 seasons, they should have mentioned it to Kobe. They shouldn't have promised him a contender. I don't want to sound like I'm all over Kobe's balls, because I'm sticking up for Odom and Walton here too, both players who want to win now. Does Walton want to re-sign with this team? I'm not so sure now. Reportedly, Sacramento is interested in him and would deal Artest in a S&T for Walton and a filler or two, but does the organization want to bring in Artest? They've got that option on the table again...they passed on it the first time, how will they react the second time. If things do work out with this trade and Walton, Cook, and a pick are traded for Artest that would give us a lineup of:

Farmar
Kobe/Evans
Artest/Vlad
Odom/Turiaf
Kwame/Mihm.

Hypothetically, if that deal works out they still have the pieces needed to acquire Jermaine O'neal. Say the ship Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown and the 19th pick for Jermaine, Murphy, and David Harrison. Would Indy do this? Well if the rumored offers for Jermaine are true, this is a top one. They get a draft pick, Odom, and Bynum and Kwame's expiring K. That definitely beats Theo Ratliff and the number 5 pick from Boston, considering how deep this draft is.

Our lineup:
Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant/Mo Evans
Ron Artest/Vladimir Radmanovic
Jermaine O'neal/Troy Murphy/Ronnie Turiaf
Chris Mihm/David Harrison

Let's say we take that lineup into the FA signing period. We've got the MLE to offer. We split it between Steve Blake and Jamaal Maagloire (I don't know how much he'll command, doesn't deserve much)...

Steve Blake/Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant/Mo Evans
Ron Artest/Vladimir Radmanovic
Jermaine O'neal/Troy Murphy/Ronnie Turiaf
Jamaal Maagloire/Chris Mihm/

With this lineup, you got a good shot at contending for a title, something the fans, the media, Kobe and Phil want. However, it's something that Jim Buss probably doesn't like because when he becomes the full-pledged owner of the team, he'll be left in a salary cap hell. Also if all these moved did happen, we'd be returning one starter from last year...how would these players adapt to Jackson's triangle offense? If we can make at least one move to try and improve this team...we should. Whether it be Jermaine or Artest, we need to do something. As it is, I doubt we make the playoffs next year with the West improving even more through the draft and probably through free agency.

Something working against these moves, specifically the FA moves? Money. Too often MLE players are getting more than they're worth. Jared Jeffries, for example. Luke Walton is in a Jared Jeffries situation. If he wants to leave L.A. to sign a contract worth 7-8 million a year, it's going to be on a table because people will pay that price for a role player who has occasional offensive outbursts and a high basketball IQ. That's why I think it might be hard to split the MLE between Blake and Maagloire. Maagloire is a solid center who can give you 10 and 10 a game. People will pay money for that.

Ah, who am I kidding? A lot has to go right for that to be even fathomable. I forgot we've got:
<ul>
[*]Mitch Kupchak who has no power in the organization as our General Manager,
[*]Jerry Buss who is out with some 23 year old bimbo getting a DUI ticket as our owner,
[*]Jeanie Buss who is pissed off at her brother Jim Buss for calling out Phil Jackson as our PR Manager,
[*]Jim Buss who is mad at Jeanie Buss for calling him out and is striving to build his own legacy in the future with this team as our future owner and basically the most powerful man in our organization,
[*]Phil Jackson who wants more say in team moves and wants to win now as our head coach,
[*]and an unhappy superstar in Kobe Bryant who wants to win now.
[/list]
It's just frustrating right now, because as you said, Laker fans aren't used to being in the middle of the pack. It's even harder when we've got the pretty much undisputed most talented player in the game right now. It's painful to watch his prime wasted. I hope Orlando can build around Dwight the right away, unlike we've done around Kobe.

Kobe and Phil deserve better than how they've been treated by Laker management. They've been kept in the dark and lied to, they deserve to have a fair opportunity to return to greatness.</div>
EXACTLY the same lineup I had in mind. I mean EXACTLY, top to bottom! As long as we have Kupcake and Jimmy Buss in the front office, I'm afraid we will never get back to the top again. Right now, I'm all out to trade Kobe.

 

Normally, I'd just think that Lakers fans need to get used to the salary cap era and not expect to watch a dynasty every year, but I do agree with Mamba's last post. The deception that's surrounding Kobe's resigning is disconcerting and, honestly, it makes the organization look terrible. There are legitimate grievances here. Right now, I think the team is in a similar situation as the New Jersey Nets. You have some stars and a good enough roster to make the playoffs and even the 2nd round (without injuries). But that's really the ceiling. If the goal is to win a championship, then the team needs to break down a lot of the roster and rebuild. But that risks alienating the star players, who clearly didn't sign up for that. I hope Kobe doesn't demand a trade, but I do hope he forces the organization to make a decision on this issue. Right now, it seems like they really haven't figured out what direction they're headed in and they won't accomplish anything until they decide on a plan for the next few years.

 

Basically, Kobe got tricked into re-signing. The Lakers had lost Shaq and the organisation lied to Kobe about the rebuilding period in order to resign him.

 

Well, turns out Ric Bucher wasn't lying after all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The story lines that have engulfed the Los Angeles Lakers in the last week hit a crescendo Wednesday when Kobe Bryant said he would welcome a trade.

"I would like to be traded, yeah," Bryant said on 1050 ESPN Radio in New York. "Tough as it is to come to that conclusion there's no other alternative, you know?"

Bryant, interviewed by Stephen A. Smith, was asked if there was anything the Lakers could do to change his mind.

"No," Bryant said. "I just want them to do the right thing."

"[The Lakers] obviously want to move in a different direction in terms of rebuilding," Bryant said, adding he could have opted to sign with the Los Angeles Clippers or Chicago Bulls instead. "Three years ago when I was re-signing they should have told me they wanted to rebuild."

Asked if he had any preference for a trade destination, he said "At this point I'll go play on Pluto."</div>

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No I don't think that would be diluted. Look, I never said that playing on a stacked team is like cheating. I said that bending the rules and forcing a trade to a stacked team is like cheating. If a team assembles multiple superstars through free agency, trades, the draft, etc., it should be commended and I wouldn't hold it against them. If a player gets tired of a losing situation and complains his way to a title, than I do think its tarnished a bit.</div>

Well of course playing on a stacked team is a bit like cheating, but people (like you) seem to be obsessed with rings and will generally overlook that fact (up to certain point at least I believe).

Let's say Kobe was traded to the Suns, you're telling me that winning a ring there wouldn't be a tarnished accomplishment?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
That doesn't make any sense. Yes, I don't believe that its Kobe's fault that his teammates are so terrible, and yes, he is losing an opportunity to win the MVP award because of that. Unfortunate? Yes. Unfair? Not at all. A player usually has to be in the right situation to win an MVP and, like I said earlier, not all players get to be that lucky. That's just the harsh reality of the NBA. Not every great player will have the opportunity to win a title, not every great player will have the opportunity to win an MVP award, and we shouldn't let them break the rules because of that fact.</div>

How exactly are you making more sense?

And why is that the harsh reality of the NBA? Only because people like you (don't mean that in a personal way, just being honest) have these twisted ideas about winning and most valuable. I wish this double-thinking charade would cease.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
It would be ideal for Kobe and his fans. But, the Lakers need to/should think about their team's success before that of any individual player. If they believe that they need Kobe in order to win, then they shouldn't be forced to trade him just because he's disgruntled.

So we should disregard everything in order to allow Kobe to silence all the doubters and critics? Since when did Kobe's personal legacy gain precedence over the rules? As I stated earlier, Kobe had his chance to choose his situation. He made a decision and, looking back, it looks like he made a mistake. But that's his fault. Now he has to follow through with the committment he made, even if its not ideal.</div>

If the Lakers don't get JO/etc. why would it be honorable for them to keep Kobe there? Yes it is unfortunate that Kobe is asking for a trade but it would be worse for him to end up like KG. They're not going to sell out crowds in LA? They're going to win a title? It is utterly pointless, so this is a special case.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers should do what is in their best interests. If they think they can be in a better situation by trading Kobe, they should go ahead and do that. If they think they have no chance of getting equal value and are better off keeping him, they should be allowed to do that.

It's honourable to live up to a commitment that you've made. The Lakers were in a pretty bad situation after the Shaq trade, even before Kobe signed with them. If he's so preoccupied with his legacy, shouldn't he have realized how difficult it would be to rebuild the team?</div>

Well the Lakers can do that but it would be an extremely selfish thing to do since they're not going anywhere; much worse then what Kobe is asking for.
Who knew the Lakers would suck this bad and draft an 18 year old to build around?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Hey, I'm not arguing whether or not Kobe should be traded. I am arguing that Kobe shouldn't be the one to make that decision. That's the job of the Laker's front office.</div>

And at the same time, you're saying that it is impossible for the Lakers to act selfish and petty, which is not the case.

 

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well of course playing on a stacked team is a bit like cheating, but people (like you) seem to be obsessed with rings and will generally overlook that fact (up to certain point at least I believe).

Let's say Kobe was traded to the Suns, you're telling me that winning a ring there wouldn't be a tarnished accomplishment?</div>
I don't understand where you're coming up with these conclusions. Where did I say that rings are the "be all and end all" of a players accomplishments? Sure winning a title is an accomplishment, but every situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Of course, I'd consider Kobe winning a title with a weak Lakers team to be more significant than winning a title on a stacked Suns team (after a trade). But, that doesn't mean that the hypothetical championship with the Suns is "tainted" or "tarnished." I use those terms for a championship won by a player breaking the rules (ala Alonzo Mourning's ring with Miami).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">How exactly are you making more sense?

And why is that the harsh reality of the NBA? Only because people like you (don't mean that in a personal way, just being honest) have these twisted ideas about winning and most valuable. I wish this double-thinking charade would cease.</div>
What double-thinking are you talking about? Are you denying that not every good player will win a title or win an MVP? Its been that way all through the history of the NBA and it should remain that way, even if Kobe evokes a lot of sympathy from his fans.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">If the Lakers don't get JO/etc. why would it be honorable for them to keep Kobe there? Yes it is unfortunate that Kobe is asking for a trade but it would be worse for him to end up like KG. They're not going to sell out crowds in LA? They're going to win a title? It is utterly pointless, so this is a special case.</div>
Where did I say that its honourable for the Lakers to keep Kobe? I said they should always have the right to keep a player for the full amount of years that they signed him for. There's no value judgment attached to that. Its simply a case of following the rules. Personally I think they should trade Kobe if they are committed to winning down the road, but that doesn't mean I think that they should be forced to do that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the Lakers can do that but it would be an extremely selfish thing to do since they're not going anywhere; much worse then what Kobe is asking for.
Who knew the Lakers would suck this bad and draft an 18 year old to build around?</div>
Once again, I'm not talking about what's right or wrong (from the organization's POV). They should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Who knew Grant Hill would be injured that long? Who knew Toronto's front office would be so unstable? There are no guarantees in the NBA. You can't totally predict what will happen with a team, but the one thing everyone should be able to bank on is the rulebook. If you sign a player for 6 years, you should be expect to have that player for 6 years. There shouldn't be loopholes just because a player is well-liked or because he's a superstar.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">And at the same time, you're saying that it is impossible for the Lakers to act selfish and petty, which is not the case.</div>
lol, when did I say that? You twisted my words around so many times in this post.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't understand where you're coming up with these conclusions. Where did I say that rings are the "be all and end all" of a players accomplishments? Sure winning a title is an accomplishment, but every situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Of course, I'd consider Kobe winning a title with a weak Lakers team to be more significant than winning a title on a stacked Suns team (after a trade). But, that doesn't mean that the hypothetical championship with the Suns is "tainted" or "tarnished." I use those terms for a championship won by a player breaking the rules (ala Alonzo Mourning's ring with Miami).</div>

Well we know what happened with KG, I doubt Kobe can win with this weak roster as it is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
What double-thinking are you talking about? Are you denying that not every good player will win a title or win an MVP? Its been that way all through the history of the NBA and it should remain that way, even if Kobe evokes a lot of sympathy from his fans.</div>

Well you did say the MVP voting system, etc. was unfair, correct? So then why are you essentially complaining about Kobe wanting to leave? That is "unfair" as well, and a logical desire that veterans have when they are on pathetic rosters.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Where did I say that its honourable for the Lakers to keep Kobe? I said they should always have the right to keep a player for the full amount of years that they signed him for. There's no value judgment attached to that. Its simply a case of following the rules. Personally I think they should trade Kobe if they are committed to winning down the road, but that doesn't mean I think that they should be forced to do that.


Once again, I'm not talking about what's right or wrong (from the organization's POV). They should have the right to make that decision themselves.</div>

Why should they? They have the authority but I don't believe they should in this case.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Who knew Grant Hill would be injured that long? Who knew Toronto's front office would be so unstable? There are no guarantees in the NBA. You can't totally predict what will happen with a team, but the one thing everyone should be able to bank on is the rulebook. If you sign a player for 6 years, you should be expect to have that player for 6 years. There shouldn't be loopholes just because a player is well-liked or because he's a superstar.</div>

Well KG shouldn't be judged by rings and team success, right? But everything is "unfair" as I've stated before. I don't really see why you blindly side with the organizations, every case is special/different.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
lol, when did I say that? You twisted my words around so many times in this post.</div>

Let me keep it real, yes I have twisted yours words to a certain degree (lol). But why is it that veterans shouldn't want out of a bad situation? All you talk about is how "unfair" it is; which is hypocritical because earlier you've stated that being judged by team success (etc.) is unfair but "that's the way it is" so to speak.

 

I think Chutney is just saying if someone agrees to a contract that says that he will play for a certain team for multiple years, that person should be prepared to play for that team for the years he agreed to.

I also understand that if the team made an agreement whether oral or written into the contract saying that if we do not make this team into a contender we will trade you, then the team should follow through on their agreement.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The smartest thing for the team to do, if they're building for the future, is trade Kobe. I know our front office is full of idiots, but I don't think they're that stupid that they wouldn't realize Kobe Bryant will get them a stock of young talent. He could probably draw Amare, Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Leandro Barbosa, etc. Not all of these players, but a combo from their respective teams.</div>

Lakers need a point guard in the worst way but if they trade Kobe to get a point guard, they also need to get some scoring... And their frontline is below average also. As is their bench...
Wouldn't want to have Kupchak's job right now.