Rick Bucher: Kobe "Demands" Trade

Ugh, the last place I want to see Kobe is in Phoenix. I love Kobe and all and I want to see him win, but not in Phoenix. The thought of getting Marion or even Amare is pretty decent, but I'd rather go for something like Rashard Lewis and the #2 pick (which was mentioned in here somewhere), that way we can get a guy that's a star and someone that's going to be a superstar in either Durant or Oden. The likelyhood of that happening isn't even close to high, but out of my pure hatred of the Suns, I'd rather see that happen that see Kobe put on a Suns uniform, even if bringing in Amare or Marion and Barbosa gives us a better chance of winning.

 

I know it'd never happen, but do you think he'd waive his clause to go to the team that's knocked him out of the playoffs on back to back years?

 

Man, I'm tired of responding to posts where you argue against things that I never said. Let me say it straightforward.

1) I'm not siding with the management. I'm not siding against Kobe. I'm siding with the rulebook. If a team signs a player to a long-term contract, they should fully expect to have that player be a part of their roster for the amount of years he signed for. That player had all the freedom he wanted as a free agent and he should be forced to fulfill the commitment he made and face the consequences of his decision (good or bad). A player forcing a trade is essentially equivalent to a front office not paying a player all of his money if he underachieves. That's so ridiculous and unfair and, honestly, the only difference is that the media, fans, and the NBA for some reason consider it acceptable for players to whine and complain their way out of a commitment they made. That doesn't make it acceptable in my eyes, though.

2) You have to understand where I've used the word "unfair" and "unfortunate." I use the word unfair for a situation where something happens against the rules. Its unfair that a team can spend a whole summer convincing a player to sign a 6-year deal and only have him for 3 seasons. Just as it would be unfair if a team decided not to pay a player who was injured for a full season. Its also unfair that, if a player is good enough, he can force his way to an already good team and win a championship. Its unfair that a player can bail on his teammates, fans, and organization if he's unhappy.

Now, I use the word "unfortunate" or "unlucky" to describe the reality of the NBA. Its unfortunate that not every good player will have the opportunity to win a championship. Its unlucky that a player can sign a long-term deal with a team and unexpected factors like injuries can ruin the situation. But, we all have to understand that these things are inevitable. There will never be complete parity in the league and not every player will have the benefit of playing in the right situation at the right time to contend for a championship. There have been players in Kobe's situation before and there will be ones in the future. Why should we completely undermine the free agency system for this one case, because he evokes sympathy?

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^^ Kobe has an option built into his contract to terminate it early. Playing devil's advocate ... Would it be better if Kobe kept quiet and then opted out of his deal without any warning instead?</div>
He has every right to do so. What I think Kobe should do is express his frustration and make it clear that this isn't what he signed up for. Put the burden on the ownership to decide between rebuilding or contending. He started out doing that, but a combination of not getting in touch with the Buss' and his own emotions has him out of control.

My argument against players demanding trades is strictly based on the fact that its against the rules. Judgments about what's right or wrong or moral all come in later and really don't affect my stance on that. I mean, with this specific case I think the Lakers' front office deserves a lot of blame for deceiving Kobe, missing out on quality players, and letting the organization descend into petty feuds. That said, I still don't think its justification for Kobe to force his way out of LA.

Also, this is kind of off-topic, but is Kobe the only player in the league with a no-trade clause in his contract. I didn't know NBA teams still included them in deals.

 

I'm all for "straightfoward".

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Man, I'm tired of responding to posts where you argue against things that I never said. Let me say it straightforward.

1) I'm not siding with the management. I'm not siding against Kobe. I'm siding with the rulebook. If a team signs a player to a long-term contract, they should fully expect to have that player be a part of their roster for the amount of years he signed for. That player had all the freedom he wanted as a free agent and he should be forced to fulfill the commitment he made and face the consequences of his decision (good or bad). A player forcing a trade is essentially equivalent to a front office not paying a player all of his money if he underachieves. That's so ridiculous and unfair and, honestly, the only difference is that the media, fans, and the NBA for some reason consider it acceptable for players to whine and complain their way out of a commitment they made. That doesn't make it acceptable in my eyes, though.

2) You have to understand where I've used the word "unfair" and "unfortunate." I use the word unfair for a situation where something happens against the rules. Its unfair that a team can spend a whole summer convincing a player to sign a 6-year deal and only have him for 3 seasons. Just as it would be unfair if a team decided not to pay a player who was injured for a full season. Its also unfair that, if a player is good enough, he can force his way to an already good team and win a championship. Its unfair that a player can bail on his teammates, fans, and organization if he's unhappy.

Now, I use the word "unfortunate" or "unlucky" to describe the reality of the NBA. Its unfortunate that not every good player will have the opportunity to win a championship. Its unlucky that a player can sign a long-term deal with a team and unexpected factors like injuries can ruin the situation. But, we all have to understand that these things are inevitable. There will never be complete parity in the league and not every player will have the benefit of playing in the right situation at the right time to contend for a championship. There have been players in Kobe's situation before and there will be ones in the future. Why should we completely undermine the free agency system for this one case, because he evokes sympathy?</div>

Well the thing is, Kobe can't force the Lakers to do anything, he can't "demand" anything. He can only suggest a trade; and you are upset by that? Is asking for a trade even against the rules (you did just mention you were going by "the rules")?

What Kobe is doing is perfectly fine, he doesn't want to play with scrubs. By bitching about his situation, he will get what he wants quicker so Kobe needs to keep complaining.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the thing is, Kobe can't force the Lakers to do anything, he can't "demand" anything. He can only suggest a trade; and you are upset by that? Is asking for a trade even against the rules (you did just mention you were going by "the rules")?

What Kobe is doing is perfectly fine, he doesn't want to play with scrubs. By bitching about his situation, he will get what he wants quicker so Kobe needs to keep complaining.</div>
I don't think asking a team to go somewhere else is against the rules, but I don't support it and there are 2 reasons why I think this case is a bit different than that. First of all, Kobe's not doing it behind closed doors. He's out in the media, turning public opinion against the organization, and making it difficult for the Lakers to make a decision either way. Secondly, he's specifically demanding a trade to a contender which automatically restricts the front office in terms of what they can get back for him. Kobe's got a lot of control, as the only player in the league with a no-trade clause, and I think he's misusing it a bit.

Ultimately, this is why I prefer for players to not explicitly tell a team to send them somewhere else. There are a lot of different ways you can get the exact same message across without demanding a trade (KG's a good example of this, IMO). Express your frustration, tell your side of the story, and put the onus on the organization to make a decision. I think Kobe started off doing that, but everything after the 2nd day's been counterproductive. If he wants to stay, then he's alienating his teammates and people in the organization. If he wants out, he's making it harder for the Lakers to deal him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Ultimately, this is why I prefer for players to not explicitly tell a team to send them somewhere else. There are a lot of different ways you can get the exact same message across without demanding a trade (KG's a good example of this, IMO). Express your frustration, tell your side of the story, and put the onus on the organization to make a decision. I think Kobe started off doing that, but everything after the 2nd day's been counterproductive. If he wants to stay, then he's alienating his teammates and people in the organization. If he wants out, he's making it harder for the Lakers to deal him.</div>

KG would not be a good example. Yes, he has complained about the situation and said that he wants to win games and win a championship. But, as long as he doesn't do anything radical, and as long as he keeps playing like he is, the Timberwolves' management hasn't and probably isn't going to really do everything they can to surround KG with better players.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">KG would not be a good example. Yes, he has complained about the situation and said that he wants to win games and win a championship. But, as long as he doesn't do anything radical, and as long as he keeps playing like he is, the Timberwolves' management hasn't and probably isn't going to really do everything they can to surround KG with better players.</div>Unless they land Kobe, which would be a big turn of events, I don't know if they have enough to get him though.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think asking a team to go somewhere else is against the rules, but I don't support it and there are 2 reasons why I think this case is a bit different than that. First of all, Kobe's not doing it behind closed doors. He's out in the media, turning public opinion against the organization, and making it difficult for the Lakers to make a decision either way.</div>

How is he making it more difficult? On the contrary, he's forcing the Lakers' hand.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Secondly, he's specifically demanding a trade to a contender which automatically restricts the front office in terms of what they can get back for him. Kobe's got a lot of control, as the only player in the league with a no-trade clause, and I think he's misusing it a bit.
</div>

Chutney, if he kept things in-house and he got traded, he would use his trade clause in that situation as well, so your point is? That's part of his contract, there is nothing wrong about that. Are we not going by the rules?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Ultimately, this is why I prefer for players to not explicitly tell a team to send them somewhere else. There are a lot of different ways you can get the exact same message across without demanding a trade (KG's a good example of this, IMO). Express your frustration, tell your side of the story, and put the onus on the organization to make a decision. I think Kobe started off doing that, but everything after the 2nd day's been counterproductive. If he wants to stay, then he's alienating his teammates and people in the organization. If he wants out, he's making it harder for the Lakers to deal him.</div>

Well Kobe is obviously in an emotional state right, which accounts for his flip flopping. However, scaring the hell out of the Lakers is the only way to assure that they will do something. Who cares if it hurts his public image? Kobe wants to win, he doesn't care if a few more people think he is acting immature; he just doesn't want to end up like KG.

Kobe felt betrayed by the "insider" which also accounts for why he doesn't feel he has to keep things in-house, and all the better, because the Lakers are surely feeling the pressure.

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Minnesota had tried to over the last few seasons, but they just aren't very good at it.</div>

Shape, but Minny hasn't been backed into a corner like Kobe has done with the Lakers.

 

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How is he making it more difficult? On the contrary, he's forcing the Lakers' hand.</div>Because by doing everything through the media and public methods. The other teams will know the Lakers have a disgruntled Kobe, and don't have the luxury of waiting it out, so more teams will offer low, knowing the Lakers most likely would have to take something. (similar things happened during the Shaq trade and Carter trade, although Carter's value also dropped because he was not trying on the court)

The Lakers knowing what Kobe is worth, will be less likely be satisfied with the majority of these lesser offers (and may choose not to accept any of them), therefore making it less likely and harder to satisfy Kobe's wishes to be traded.

Of course some teams might still offer trades that are more realistic value for Kobe.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Because by doing everything through the media and public methods. The other teams will know the Lakers have a disgruntled Kobe, and don't have the luxury of waiting it out, so more teams will offer low, knowing the Lakers most likely would have to take something. (similar things happened during the Shaq trade and Carter trade, although Carter's value also dropped because he was not trying on the court)

The Lakers knowing what Kobe is worth, will be less likely be satisfied with the majority of these lesser offers (and may choose not to accept any of them), therefore making it less likely and harder to satisfy Kobe's wishes to be traded.

Of course some teams might still offer trades that are more realistic value for Kobe.</div>

Kobe wants players in LA. Did you not listen to him recently? He said he wants to stay in LA, but with the current roster, he would like a trade. Read between the lines.

It still isn't illegal to demand a trade anyway. If the Lakers get less value for Kobe, that is "unfortunate", like KG's career up to now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">How is he making it more difficult? On the contrary, he's forcing the Lakers' hand.</div>
Like I said earlier, I think that's what Kobe started out doing. But, right now I think he's making it more difficult in the sense that any decision they make will be so heavily scrutinized. Plus, how are they supposed to figure out what to do when he's flip flopping his position every 24 hours?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Chutney, if he kept things in-house and he got traded, he would use his trade clause in that situation as well, so your point is? That's part of his contract, there is nothing wrong about that. Are we not going by the rules? </div>
I didn't mean to apply that his use of the no-trade clause is against the rules. Just wanted to point it out, because it differentiates this case from the typical "disgruntled player wants to leave his team" scenario.

What I wanted to say, is that Kobe doesn't need to explicitly demand a trade or PMS on every radio station he can find, to force the Lakers to make a decision. He's got an unprecedented amount of control over this situation that has been overlooked, IMO. He has an opt-out in a couple years (which pressures LA into making moves or risk losing him for nothing) and the already mentioned no-trade clause (which allows him to control where he goes). Both of those are a part of the rules and he has every right to use them. I agree with his initial rant against the organization, because it put the truth out there and put the spotlight on the Lakers' front office. But at some point he needs to sit back and realize that the media is a double-edged sword. As helpful as it can be to express an opinion, it can also intensify a situation to the point where making a decision become a lot more difficult.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Well Kobe is obviously in an emotional state right, which accounts for his flip flopping. However, scaring the hell out of the Lakers is the only way to assure that they will do something. Who cares if it hurts his public image? Kobe wants to win, he doesn't care if a few more people think he is acting immature; he just doesn't want to end up like KG.

Kobe felt betrayed by the "insider" which also accounts for why he doesn't feel he has to keep things in-house, and all the better, because the Lakers are surely feeling the pressure.</div>
I agree with you and I definitely feel like the Lakers should have reached out to him when he was in such an emotional state. But I wasn't commenting about his public image or anything. I was questioning how effective his strategy has become. There's only so much pressure you can put on an organization, and IMO he reached that level after a day or so. After that, every time he demanded a trade, he was ensuring that teams would intentionally lowball the Lakers. Every time he stated that he'd want out if he didn't get more help, he was ensuring that teams would up the price for players that LA was interested in. At this point, he's not scaring the hell out of the Lakers, he's just making it harder for them do anything at all.

Ultimately, this is another reason why I'm against players demanding trades. There are more effective ways of getting the point across and eventually it turns into a media spectacle that doesn't help anybody involved.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said earlier, I think that's what Kobe started out doing. But, right now I think he's making it more difficult in the sense that any decision they make will be so heavily scrutinized. Plus, how are they supposed to figure out what to do when he's flip flopping his position every 24 hours?</div>

He wants to stay with the Lakers if they get a couple of players (JO + Artest let's say), if not, he wants to be traded.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I didn't mean to apply that his use of the no-trade clause is against the rules. Just wanted to point it out, because it differentiates this case from the typical "disgruntled player wants to leave his team" scenario.

What I wanted to say, is that Kobe doesn't need to explicitly demand a trade or PMS on every radio station he can find, to force the Lakers to make a decision. He's got an unprecedented amount of control over this situation that has been overlooked, IMO. He has an opt-out in a couple years (which pressures LA into making moves or risk losing him for nothing) and the already mentioned no-trade clause (which allows him to control where he goes). Both of those are a part of the rules and he has every right to use them. I agree with his initial rant against the organization, because it put the truth out there and put the spotlight on the Lakers' front office. But at some point he needs to sit back and realize that the media is a double-edged sword. As helpful as it can be to express an opinion, it can also intensify a situation to the point where making a decision become a lot more difficult.</div>

So he shouldn't have flip-flopped is what you're saying? I think pretty much anyone will agree with that, but I still understood his message; and days after his ranting the Lakers' trade talks about JO/Camby/Artest seemed to heat up. I have no doubt going public with this issue has made the Lakers become more aggressive as far as acquiring more pieces is concerned.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I agree with you and I definitely feel like the Lakers should have reached out to him when he was in such an emotional state. But I wasn't commenting about his public image or anything. I was questioning how effective his strategy has become. There's only so much pressure you can put on an organization, and IMO he reached that level after a day or so. After that, every time he demanded a trade, he was ensuring that teams would intentionally lowball the Lakers. Every time he stated that he'd want out if he didn't get more help, he was ensuring that teams would up the price for players that LA was interested in. At this point, he's not scaring the hell out of the Lakers, he's just making it harder for them do anything at all.

Ultimately, this is another reason why I'm against players demanding trades. There are more effective ways of getting the point across and eventually it turns into a media spectacle that doesn't help anybody involved.</div>


Kobe has almost handled this well. All he had to say was what he said Wednesday night (and once more, that would be that he wants to be a Laker for Life, but not with this roster so he would like to be traded).