<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ahmadinejad's a joke to a lot Iranians too and its becoming harder and harder to believe that he represents the mindset of most of Iran. The dude's become a caricature almost.</div> I know what you mean. I know this guy who's Iranian and he's told me some messed up sh*t. Most people in Iran don't even like him, but they don't have a choice really. Their women are also treated horribly their (in other middle eastern countries too). I mean, it's pretty normal for a woman to get stoned to death in Iran, as well as other parts of the middle east.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ahmadinejad's a joke to a lot Iranians too and its becoming harder and harder to believe that he represents the mindset of most of Iran. The dude's become a caricature almost. There's more than enough blame to spread around over the problems in the Middle East. All I'll say is that, the sooner Arab countries acknowledge that Israel is not going anywhere, the sooner their own demands will be heard and peace will be within sight. Not to say that its mainly their fault, but at this point that seems to be the biggest obstacle.</div> Well done, Chutney. Bravo.
Polish girl's Holocaust diary unveiled <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">JERUSALEM - The diary of a 14-year-old Jewish girl dubbed the "Polish Anne Frank" was unveiled on Monday, chronicling the horrors she witnessed in a Jewish ghetto — at one point watching a Nazi soldier tear a Jewish baby away from his mother and kill him with his bare hands. The diary, written by Rutka Laskier in 1943 shortly before she was deported to Auschwitz, was released by Israel's Holocaust museum more than 60 years after she recorded what is both a daily account of the horrors of the Holocaust in Bedzin, Poland and a memoir of the life of a teenager in extraordinary circumstances. "The rope around us is getting tighter and tighter," the teenager wrote in 1943, shortly before she was deported to Auschwitz. "I'm turning into an animal waiting to die." Within a few months Rutka was dead and, it seemed, her diary lost. But last year, a Polish friend who had saved the notebook finally came forth, exposing a riveting historical document. "Rutka's Notebook" . The 60-page memoir includes innocent adolescent banter, concerns and first loves — combined with a cold analysis of the fate of European Jewry. Some 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War II, after European Jews were herded into ghettos, banned from most jobs and forced to wear yellow stars to identify them. "I simply can't believe that one day I will be allowed to leave this house without the yellow star. Or even that this war will end one day. If this happens I will probably lose my mind from joy," she wrote on Feb. 5, 1943. "The little faith I used to have has been completely shattered. If God existed, He would have certainly not permitted that human beings be thrown alive into furnaces, and the heads of little toddlers be smashed with gun butts or shoved into sacks and gassed to death." Reports of the gassing of Jews, which were not common knowledge in the West by then, apparently had filtered into the Bedzin ghetto, which was near Auschwitz, Yad Vashem experts said.</div> <div align="center">Source: Yahoo! News</div> I already see Mahmoud Ahmadinejad saying that this is a fake.
<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">UN Resolution 242. <font size=""1"">It calls for "the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East" to be achieved by "the application of both the following principles:" "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict" (see semantic dispute) and: "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and respect for the right of every state in the area to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries. Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Lebanon entered into consultations with the UN Special representative over the implementation of 242.[3] After denouncing it in 1967, Syria "conditionally" accepted the resolution in March 1972. Syria formally accepted[4] UN Security Council Resolution 338, the cease-fire at the end of the Yom Kippur War, which embraced resolution 242. [5]</font> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nation..._Resolution_242 Basically Israel said they would return all the Palestinian land they stole on the 6th day of the 6 day war including Gaza Strip, West Bank, Golan Heights, etc. Israel, US, Palestine, and every other country in the world has signed off and agreed to this document. The US and Israel keep saying they support this resolution, yet never deliver on their word. I'm too much of a realist to waste more time on this argument.</div> The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are already Palestinian territories, Sinai was returned to Egypt and the only major parts that we conquered (NOT STOLE) in that war are part of Jerusalem and the Golan (which Syria are demanding in exchange for peace).
<div class="quote_poster">thedude9990 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">(even though israel army is pretty bad ass and could fight it)</div> You're nuts.
<div class="quote_poster">thedude9990 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">(even though israel army is pretty bad ass and could fight it)</div> You're nuts. <div class="quote_poster">kobimel Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Anyway, Iran can say all they want. The Hamas and Hezbollah can continue terrorizing inoccent people, but they need to know that they will get hit back, hard. Hopefully, one day we can reach peace, but till then, Israel is staying on the map.</div> Thats crap. Hamas and Hezbollah terrorizing.... but how does Israel respond ... like this "omg, they killed one of ours .. lets go kill thousands of them now" ... man Israeli govt. killed so many Palestinian civilians after forcing them out of their lands.
In my opinion, Israel should not even be a country. It was an act of kindness from countries who did not own the land they gave away. It seems strange to me to "give back" a land to a people who lost it thousands of years ago, and the holocaust, as horrible as it was, is not a good enough reason. For Israel then, with weapons and other kind of help supported by the US, to take even more land of the people of which land the people of the new Israel had invaded, is even more wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In my opinion, Israel should not even be a country. It was an act of kindness from countries who did not own the land they gave away. It seems strange to me to "give back" a land to a people who lost it thousands of years ago, and the holocaust, as horrible as it was, is not a good enough reason. For Israel then, with weapons and other kind of help supported by the US, to take even more land of the people of which land the people of the new Israel had invaded, is even more wrong.</div> So, you displace over 7 million people because of a mistake that the British made? I mean, I totally agree with you about the way Israel was created. This entire situation can be traced to British imperialism and the idiotic Balfour Declaration, but where has this not occurred? African borders were drawn around colonial boundaries and completely disregarded cultural and tribal differences (leading to all the ethnic conflict we now see). The same happened in India. And in the Asian countries. The problem is we can't do anything to change the past, and this is where I get frustrated with these debates: very few people can get past what they think things "should be like" to address the reality of the situation. The reality is that there have been whole generations that have grown up Israeli, that cannot be blamed for how their nation was created and cannot be faulted for defending its security. The country's grown into a strong democracy and "eliminating it" is neither feasible nor constructive. Like I said earlier, both sides deserve plenty of blame for all the violence and bloodshed. Neither has been willing to be reasonable or shown signs of compromise, whether its with Israel's misguided approach to "defending itself" or the Arab nations' refusal to acknowledge an fully functional state. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobimel:</div><div class="quote_post">The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are already Palestinian territories, Sinai was returned to Egypt and the only major parts that we conquered (NOT STOLE) in that war are part of Jerusalem and the Golan (which Syria are demanding in exchange for peace).</div> What's the difference? Neither provides adequate justification.
...yet for some reason I return to this thread. <div class="quote_poster">kobimel Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are already Palestinian territories, Sinai was returned to Egypt and the only major parts that we conquered (NOT STOLE) in that war are part of Jerusalem and the Golan (which Syria are demanding in exchange for peace).</div> How much of West Bank and Gaza Strip did they return? What little crap was left over, right? They have yet to return over 70% of the land they promised they would return. Man should stop with this we conquered/claimed/won crap and admit they stole land. That's what war is about, taking over other countries for natural resources, except this wasn't a war. According to my grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles and cousines who were all born in Jerusalem and Gaza it was more brutal than what Anne Frank wrote in her diary. At first, Palestinians, like the rest of the world, felt sorry and really didn't care that Jews needed to live some where, so they let the people live in peace. At night, without any warnings, Jewish men started killing all Palestinians from babies to elders. They even slashed pregnent women in their stomachs. This mass slaughter was by no way pre-emptive. So go ahead, feel sorry for Israelis. Palestinians will not back down from a challenge. They started it and I hope we finish it, but I know that is impossible. <div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So, you displace over 7 million people because of a mistake that the British made? I mean, I totally agree with you about the way Israel was created. This entire situation can be traced to British imperialism and the idiotic Balfour Declaration, but where has this not occurred? African borders were drawn around colonial boundaries and completely disregarded cultural and tribal differences (leading to all the ethnic conflict we now see). The same happened in India. And in the Asian countries. The problem is we can't do anything to change the past, and this is where I get frustrated with these debates: very few people can get past what they think things "should be like" to address the reality of the situation. The reality is that there have been whole generations that have grown up Israeli, that cannot be blamed for how their nation was created and cannot be faulted for defending its security. The country's grown into a strong democracy and "eliminating it" is neither feasible nor constructive. Like I said earlier, both sides deserve plenty of blame for all the violence and bloodshed. Neither has been willing to be reasonable or shown signs of compromise, whether its with Israel's misguided approach to "defending itself" or the Arab nations' refusal to acknowledge an fully functional state. What's the difference? Neither provides adequate justification.</div> I agree, debating is pointless, especially since there has been entire generations of Israelis, Christians, and Muslims that can not be at fault for this dilemma. Debating wont get us anywhere either, that is why I say UN Resolution 242 should be starting ground for justification. It says Israel has a right to exist, and makes Jerusalem a national state open to everone. All the big players (Israel, US, and Palestine) signed this resolution, so why the hell isn't anyone acknowleging it? You were on to something though, look at a map and ask yourself, why the hell do Israelis want this specific piece of land. Why this spot? Forget about the fact that Jesus was born there, forget about oil and other natural resources. Be a free thinker and you will find truth. Then you'll stfu because no one wants to listen....plus what's the point of telling everyone if nothing will change? Why does America support Israel? Because it saves them trillions.
