<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wizards? YES Nets? YES Detroit? NO!</div> You honestly think Kobe I-don't-make-my-teammates-better and the rest of those scrubs could play with Jason Kidd, RJ, Vince, etc?
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You honestly think Kobe I-don't-make-my-teammates-better and the rest of those scrubs could play with Jason Kidd, RJ, Vince, etc?</div> I think they could've made it tight till the end. I didn't mean YES as in 4 or 5 games. But tight till the 6th or 7th game. Kobe in playoffs, we know is amazing and can do anything. I think it'd be tough, but I would go with Lakers in 6 or 7.
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think they could've made it tight till the end. I didn't mean YES as in 4 or 5 games. But tight till the 6th or 7th game. Kobe in playoffs, we know is amazing and can do anything. I think it'd be tough, but I would go with Lakers in 6 or 7.</div> OKAY, let's get one thing straight: Kobe in the playoffs WITHOUT SHAQ has had some good games, some good moments, but has yet to win a playoff series. I don't care about supporting cast comparisons - the only 2 recent players who have proven they can do that are Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. Therefore those guys are ahead of Kobe in terms of playoff superstars that can "do anything". LeBron's game the other night was something Kobe has pretty much never done.
This LeBron take a page from Kobe is BS. I bet if Bosh made it to the finals, their would be some fan starting a thread: Bosh, the Best since Hakeem. Come on. The only thing LeBron has proved to me is that he can score 25 of the last 30 points for his team when needed. When LeBron wins 3 championships, when he can carry a team in a stronger conference then right now, when LeBron actually beast a legit team, other then the Pistons, I'll give him a second look. Right now to me, LeBron is a great player, who made it to the finals, that is it. I know I wasn't here last year, but when Wade made it, was there a thread saying: MJ should learn from Wade, or something stupid like that. Kobe is better then LeBron, right now. In every category, except maybe assists, but there is really now on to pass to. So before another Cavs fans starts stating that LeBron is mighty King of all players, let him win something other then an Eastern Conference championship.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You honestly think Kobe I-don't-make-my-teammates-better and the rest of those scrubs could play with Jason Kidd, RJ, Vince, etc?</div> OK..Think about it the other way. How do you think Lebron's Cavs would do if he played in the West? Will he make the playoffs? Make it out of the first round?
<div class="quote_poster">dallasdude Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">OK..Think about it the other way. How do you think Lebron's Cavs would do if he played in the West? Will he make the playoffs? Make it out of the first round?</div> They would never have beaten Suns. They'd make first round, but that's it. They wouldn't have ever beaten Suns. But if they were like 4th seed or something, they'd have a chance to beat Utah. <div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">OKAY, let's get one thing straight: Kobe in the playoffs WITHOUT SHAQ has had some good games, some good moments, but has yet to win a playoff series. I don't care about supporting cast comparisons - the only 2 recent players who have proven they can do that are Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. Therefore those guys are ahead of Kobe in terms of playoff superstars that can "do anything". LeBron's game the other night was something Kobe has pretty much never done.</div> That's true. But I think Kobe would've smashed on Nets. His rivalry with Vince Carter and everything would've been amazing to watch, the only major mismatch in this series would be Kidd. I think Lakers would've stopped Nets in 6 or 7 games. There is no way Lakers would've been swept like you mentioned earlier.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You honestly think Kobe I-don't-make-my-teammates-better and the rest of those scrubs could play with Jason Kidd, RJ, Vince, etc?</div> Um, yes. Saying the Nets would sweep the Lakers is just ignorant. The only two players I'm scared of on the Nets are Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson. Vince Carter played like crap throughout the playoffs. Besides the "big-three," who else do they have? No one. They don't even have any post presence what-so-ever, so we'd just do what we did last year against the Suns, which is pound the ball down low. There's nobody on the Nets that is capable of stopping Lamar Odom, he is a huge mismatch, just ask Shawn Marion. The Lakers would have swept the Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler-less Wizards, and beaten the Nets in 5 or 6. Would they make it past the Pistons? Probably not, but Kobe doesn't have a Big Z, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Flopper Varejo, or Daniel Gibson to work with. Also, most of everyone that played on the Lakers this season has had career highs, so yes, Kobe does make his teammates better, just not as much as Lebron. But like Legend stated earlier, Kobe and Lebron are two different players. They have two different styles and roles on their respective squads
Both year Kobe and the Lakers faced the Suns which is like an allstar team and you compare this with the cavs against the some of the weak teams in the EAST? Cavs have more talents and way better bench...what are you talking about? you are an idiot....don't know what his name is. I just read it somewhere when i was going through the thread saying Kobe proved nothing since he couldn't lead his team pass the first round. It is BS.
<div class="quote_poster">TopLake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Both year Kobe and the Lakers faced the Suns which is like an allstar team and you compare this with the cavs against the some of the weak teams in the EAST? Cavs have more talents and way better bench...what are you talking about?</div> Thats not the thing we're discussing at this point. We are talking about if Lakers were in East, how far would they go. And if Cavs were in West, how would they do.
<div class="quote_poster">The Legend Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace was the differnce here, with no Ben, LeBron could just run in and dunk the ball. There was no frontline that could stop LeBron James. Also the team seemed to falling apart.</div> Ben wasnt the difference at all, we just didnt contest anything, as you said we just let LeBron go to the rack at will, ok, maybe Ben would've helped since that is his specialty, but there is nothing stopping the other 4 guys from playing physical D and contesting shots. It was just a lazy performance from our guys.
No matter how much you hate Kobe or the Lakers... it is important to note... that the difference between the both these players at this point is really the conferences they are playing in. Cleveland in the West would struggle and would likely get a low seeding and end up playing Dallas, Phoenix, or San Antonio. They would then likely get ousted in the first round. On the flip side. The Lakers in the East would likely have grabbed a higher seeding and would have a very good chance of getting past the first round. In which case we would be saying: "Kobe can carry a team by himself" and "Lebron can't" Tracy McGrady did not get out of the first round either. Is that because he can't carry a team and doesn't make the players around him better or is it because the West is just tough as nails?!
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Thats not the thing we're discussing at this point. We are talking about if Lakers were in East, how far would they go. And if Cavs were in West, how would they do.</div> If the Lakers and Cavs switched places, the Lakers would get past the Wizards and the Nets, and probably lose to the Pistons. The Cavs would lose in the first round against Phoenix. Cleveland has a better team, plain and simple, but that doesn't mean Lebron is better than Kobe, or Kobe is better than Lebron. Both play different roles within their squads, it's hard to compare I will say though, by the end of their careers, Lebron will probably go down as a better player, simply because of how young he currently is, and how greatly he has already played.
The Cavs are nice defensively, and the Lakers ranked about 24th (they have atrocious team defense and Kwame Brown, LA's best defender, doesn't know how to guard the pick and roll ) in defensive efficiency, that is why the Cavs would beat LA in a series. I don't agree that Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, the guy averages about one less APG than LeBron. He was passing the rock when LA had good chemistry, and then when injuries took over he averaged 36 PPG at an elite percentage after All-Star Break.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">OKAY, let's get one thing straight: Kobe in the playoffs WITHOUT SHAQ has had some good games, some good moments, but has yet to win a playoff series. I don't care about supporting cast comparisons - the only 2 recent players who have proven they can do that are Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. Therefore those guys are ahead of Kobe in terms of playoff superstars that can "do anything". LeBron's game the other night was something Kobe has pretty much never done.</div> Hmm well, neither LeBron nor Wade had to face a stacked Phoenix team in the first round for 2 years in a row. And in Wade's case he won his ring with Shaq, but let me ask you this: Plug in Wade or LeBron in the place of Kobe on the past 2 Laker teams and can you honestly say with a straight face that they single handedly beat that Suns team?
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not going to bash you, but you can't honestly expect a starting lineup of Smush Parker, Kobe Bryant, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom (playing with a shoulder injury), and Kwame Brown to make it past the Suns do you? We took the Suns to game 7 last year, and that was as far as we were going to get with that lineup. Instead of saying, Kobe Bryant has never lead a team past the first round, why not say, Kobe Bryant lead a team of crap to 7 games against 2nd seeded, and much more dominant Phoenix Suns?</div> I was responding to a poster that said the Lakers were better than the Cavs. I never expected the Lakers to make it past the Suns. I think the Cavs, almost solely because of Lebron, are better then the Lakers and many of the playoff teams in the West. Many of you posters are blaming the Lakers woes this year on injury but without injuries to the Suns last season (Amare, Kurt Thomas) would the Lakers have pushed to seven??? By the way Farmar started for the Lakers in the Suns series and Parker had a VERY limited role.
<div class="quote_poster">emannen Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I was responding to a poster that said the Lakers were better than the Cavs. I never expected the Lakers to make it past the Suns. I think the Cavs, almost solely because of Lebron, are better then the Lakers and many of the playoff teams in the West.</div> Based off what? Do you know how terrible the Lakers are on Defense? LeBron's teammates are pretty solid defenders. The First Five Seeds in the West could have made a push for the #1 seed in the East, the East lacks depth.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Based off what? Do you know how terrible the Lakers are on Defense? LeBron's teammates are pretty solid defenders. The First Five Seeds in the West could have made a push for the #1 seed in the East, the East lacks depth.</div> Based on the last four games they have played. Why are you arguing that the Lakers are better then the Cavs and then stating that the lakers are horrible on D??? Is a team in the Finals worse then a #7 seed that was eliminated in 5 games? Seeding is really irellevant at this point. No #1 seed is left. The Mavs were beaten in the first round and the Cavs just beat the #1 seed in the East.
This thread has gotten off a bit off topic. I wanted to finish my original post in reasons why I didn't care for this article. Here's a couple of excerpts, which are baseless opinions, yet the writer wants you to think of them as fact. <u>BASELESS OPINION #1</u> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Again, put Bryant in context: this is a guy who couldn't trust Shaquille O'Neal.</div> This duo won 3 titles together, trust was not the issue. Kobe accepted his role with the team and allowed Shaq to lead the Lakers to titles. The rift began, when Shaq stopped trying, put on weight, milked his injuries, and became concerned with his extension. Kobe Bryant was the exact opposite, he was busting his butt in the offseason, expanding his game on both ends, and positioning himself to take more responsibility. At one point he crossed the line by calling Shaq out in the media challenging him to get in better shape. Shaq took exception to the comments because he wasn't ready to hand the torch to Kobe, and started referring to him as Simba. The relationship spiraled downhill from there, but it had nothing to do with a lack of trust. <u>BASELESS OPINION #2</u> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> "From day one," he said, "LeBron's been in my corner." ... Can you imagine any of the Lakers saying about Kobe what Gibson said about LeBron? No.</div> There's been countless number of times Kobe's teammates have come out and praised him. Kobe Bryant was one of the first people Lamar Odom talked to when his son passed away last summer. They refer to each other as brothers. Doesn't get any deeper than that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It is James who now sets the example. In watching him, Bryant may yet learn the difference between a starlet and a star.</div> Kobe Bryant is a 10 year veteran and 3-Time Champion. LeBron will be lucky if he ever accomplishes 3 titles. Is he capable of it? Absolutely. But taking shots at Kobe to build up LeBron is laughable. This writer is insinuating Kobe Bryant does not make his teammates better. This is so far from the truth. Having Kobe on the court makes life easy for the other four guys. Why? Because he constantly seeing double and triple teams. It's not Kobe's fault when Kwame Brown shots an airball from 2 feet away and goes out drinking and parties until the sun comes up. It's not Kobe's fault when Smush Parker chucks a 3 pointer or has And1 flashback on a 3 on 1 fastbreak and ends up turning the ball over. It's not Kobe's fault Andrew Bynum sneaks off in practice to eat a bowl of fruitloops or doesn't show up on time when Kareem schedules him in. These players should be held accountable for their own actions, don't point the blame at Kobe. Kobe Bryant passes the ball plenty, and sets up his teammates for WIDE OPEN looks every night. These guys just can finish. Kobe Bryant also gets a lot of Gretzky assists. He is the player making the pass, which leads to the pass getting the assist. Does Kobe take bad shots and force? Yes he does, but not consistently. If he did he wouldn't be shooting 46% from the field. He'd be shooting in the low 40's if he was consistently taking bad shots. You also have to respect the fact takes 77% of his shots from the outside, and is still hitting 46% of them. He shoots ove 86% from the charity stripe, and gets there 10 times a game. Not only is responsible for keeping his team in the game offensively, Kobe Bryant must also defend the opposing teams best perimeter player every single game. You tell me another superstar with Kobe's responsibility? There's only two, Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan. Everyone seems to like comparing rosters, but no one has mentioned the experience and maturity factor. Look at the Lakers roster, Kobe is the elder statesmen at age 28. Kobe is a family man with his wife and kids. He has priorities that keep him in check now, but most of the other players on the team are young, single, and rich living up that Hollywood lifestyle before they settle down. Winning titles hasn't become a priority for these guys yet. In contrast look at LeBron's team. Credit to Danny Ferry for getting the right balance of youth and veterans. Eric Snow, Big Z, Donyell, the "Butler" Damon Jones, these guys are in the twilight of their careers, and understand the importance of playing a role. They have families, they're mature, they aren't taking the opportunity for granted playing with a phenom like LeBron James. These guys aren't going to dominate and takeover a game, but these guys aren't going to hurt you either. They don't make stupid mistakes, and they don't have mental breakdowns when the game is close in crunchtime. Let's go back to that pivotal Game 5 in Detroit. Who was called on to defend Chauncey Billups down the stretch? It sure wasn't "Boobie", it was Eric Snow, who forced Billups into taking an awkward off balanced shot, which eventually rimmed out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why are you arguing that the Lakers are better then the Cavs and then stating that the lakers are horrible on D??? Is a team in the Finals worse then a #7 seed that was eliminated in 5 games?</div> Lol, sorry if you got that impression but I only meant to say that you have no clue what you're talking about as far as the first five-ish seeds (Western Conference) are concerned. But while we're on the subject, a seventh seed in the West would not be that bad in the East. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Seeding is really irellevant at this point. No #1 seed is left. The Mavs were beaten in the first round and the Cavs just beat the #1 seed in the East.</div> Heh, the Mavs always struggled against the Warriors, and the Pistons would be lucky to get home court advantage in the West. Again, the Cavs beat the East's #1 seed; the West has five other 50 win teams (probably six if the Nuggets stay healthy). What a ridiculous amount of speculation for a team that beat a Wallace-less Detroit team and got taken to six games by a 41-41 team that would not sniff the post-season elsewhere.
