no....shaq has won 3 championships. Just like Pippen never couldve led the Bulls, its unlikey that Kobe will lead the Lakers to the promised land. Its laughable that people claim Kobe as the best player since MJ. He wasnt even the best player ON HIS OWN TEAM until 2004-2005. Since then Nash has been the best player regualr season and I would say Duncan in the playoffs after this years finals. Simply put, Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the L. He has been the best scorer. He is definately one of the best - top 4, but has never been number #1 when taking an entire season or postseason into account.
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">no....shaq has won 3 championships. Just like Pippen never couldve led the Bulls, its unlikey that Kobe will lead the Lakers to the promised land. Its laughable that people claim Kobe as the best player since MJ. He wasnt even the best player ON HIS OWN TEAM until 2004-2005. Since then Nash has been the best player regualr season and I would say Duncan in the playoffs after this years finals. Simply put, Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the L. He has been the best scorer. He is definately one of the best - top 4, but has never been number #1 when taking an entire season or postseason into account.</div> There is no question Shaq was the catalyst but without Kobe the Lakers would not have been as successful. Does Kobe have the ability to win a title as the main star? It remains to be seen. I think Kobe has been the best scorer since MJ but not the best player. Shaq and Duncan are probably the best players since MJ.
<div class="quote_poster">emannen Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why are the Suns mentioned in your topic? I'm criticizing Kobe in comparison with Lebron because I don't believe Lebron would have put his team in the seventh seed in a position to be eliminated in the first round. I do not feel the Lakers would have made it to the NBA finals if under the same scenerio as the Cavs. Kobe makes his teammates better. He demands double teams, spaces the floor for shooters, leads, plays great team defense, etc. etc. etc. etc. This season he simply did not carry his team like Lebron did. Lebron's position in the Finals is a great indicator of that.</div> Well I mentioned the Suns because there are some legit reasons why they haven't won a title. They aren't exactly "excuses". So when you tell me to stop making "excuses", I laugh because you're just biased in this case. The Lakers are a bad defensive team, what don't you understand about that? No one can make you play better defense, not even someone that averages 20 Assists per game. Your perception of Kobe isn't well thought out.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well I mentioned the Suns because there are some legit reasons why they haven't won a title. They aren't exactly "excuses". So when you tell me to stop making "excuses", I laugh because you're just biased in this case. The Lakers are a bad defensive team, what don't you understand about that? No one can make you play better defense, not even someone that averages 20 Assists per game. Your perception of Kobe isn't well thought out.</div> If you a referring to Steve Nash he will certainly never improve the Suns on D. Kobe on the other hand is an excellent defender and has the ability to change the flow of the game defensively much like Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett and others can. I would say I have many "excuses" why the Suns have not won a title. Phrase it any way you like the Suns have not won a title.
<div class="quote_poster">emannen Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you a referring to Steve Nash he will certainly never improve the Suns on D. Kobe on the other hand is an excellent defender and has the ability to change the flow of the game defensively much like Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett and others can.</div> Heh well again, you did not follow the Lakers this season. Kobe struggled on defense after he came off knee surgery but he was able to somewhat rebound by the end of the year. However, his defense wasn't nearly as good as past seasons. Also, interior defenders are the ones that really impact games, especially in this era when one can't hand-check and such on the perimeter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I would say I have many "excuses" why the Suns have not won a title. Phrase it any way you like the Suns have not won a title.</div> You want a phyrric victory? Let's not delude ourselves, a legitimate reason is no excuse (though I'd say LA has a more legit reason for losing if we're comparing their situation to PHX).
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Great game by Lebron tonight btw</div> So how did Kobe play? Oh wait, they were eliminated in the first round. Had to do it Brian.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> So how did Kobe play? Oh wait, they were eliminated in the first round. Had to do it Brian. </div> lol. BURN
A lot of these arguments seem to mirror last year when it was Wade vs. Kobe. The media has manipulated all of us into choosing between Good (Wade or LeBron) or Evil (Kobe). You can't have a successful super hero without a villain and Kobe seems to fill the void as the villain character because of his polarizing persona.
i rate Wade on top, unless Lebron does something special against the Spurs like Wade did against the Mavs. remember Wade against Kobe on XMAS day 2006....ownage!
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^ OMG!!! Let's judge based on one game!!! OMFGZ!!!</div> That is how alot of people here seem to base things on. One playoff run by the Cavs, and they are a Dynasty. It's nonsense. I agree with you, one game, every player has a bad game. It happens. Kobe, IMO is still better then Wade and LeBron becuase what he has done, and what he has done for his team, the city of LA, and what he wants done in LA. He is a great player, who doesn't get burned very often. That one game, is nothing in my books. Wade just had a better game, that is it. He didn't take Kobe out, and completely destroy his career.
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">no....shaq has won 3 championships. Just like Pippen never couldve led the Bulls, its unlikey that Kobe will lead the Lakers to the promised land. Its laughable that people claim Kobe as the best player since MJ. He wasnt even the best player ON HIS OWN TEAM until 2004-2005. Since then Nash has been the best player regualr season and I would say Duncan in the playoffs after this years finals. Simply put, Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the L. He has been the best scorer. He is definately one of the best - top 4, but has never been number #1 when taking an entire season or postseason into account.</div> Those arguements always seem to piss me off. First off Shaq WOULD NOT have won those 3 without Kobe so your arguement could end there but I'll keep it going. Iverson led his team to the finals but couldn't win, Kidd couldn't, Reggie couldn't, Ewing couldn't, Karl Malone and John Stockton couldn't. Nash hasn't won, Dirk hasn't won, Garnett hasn't won. The only players in the NBA that could be considered "the best today" that have won a championship are, Duncan, Wade, Billups. So if your basing best player on winning then theres only three players in the arguement. If they haven't won a ring then it doesn't matter what round they got knocked out in. Top Four? I am simply shocked at what I just read. Since when does the best player have to be on a winning team? Kobe should take a page from LeBron's book? On what how to score 14 points in Game 1 of the NBA Finals? If you think that Kobes rings came from Shaq then you just destroyed your own arguement about LeBron being in the NBA Finals. Newsflash CAVS HAVE A GOOD TEAM. If some miracle happens that the Cavs win, I'm just going to be one of the dumbasses and say "he only won because he was on a good team." Kobe is already a proven winner. LeBron is proving hes a winner. Kobes the best today. LeBrons the best tommorow.
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">no....shaq has won 3 championships. Just like Pippen never couldve led the Bulls, its unlikey that Kobe will lead the Lakers to the promised land.</div> I respect a lot of the comments, and understand a lot of the views in this thread. og15 cleaned up a lot of argument, but this really made me rub my eyes. Comparing Pippen to Kobe? Lol... And Kobe won't lead anyone aywhere until he gets a good surrounding cast. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mmonte4:</div><div class="quote_post">Simply put, Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the L. He has been the best scorer. He is definately one of the best - top 4, but has never been number #1 when taking an entire season or postseason into account.</div> And you fail at realizing who Kobe has around him. Jesus, how many times do Kobe haters have to realize this? I'm not on Kobe's jock, I like him as a player, I won't protect him, but ****ing come on. This pisses me off. Kwame "Butterfingers" Brown was his C, along with a no-name(Bynum) backing him up. Big Z murders them alone. Smush "I'm a straight up NYC Gangsta" Parker at the point. Chyeah son, look at those tight AND 1 moves he pulls off. That turnover, and those gambles? AND 1 material dawg! Who was backing him up? A rookie, Sasha "Jack'em Up" Vujacic, and Shammond "I never see minutes because I suck" Williams. Who did the Cavs have? Eric Snow and Damon Jones, along with D. Gibs. Now I'm not saying Gibs is an all star, but I'd honestly take him over any Laker PG these last 2-3 years. I just named 2 positions that matter the most in an NBA game that LeBron has over Kobe. Let's not talk about the bench, shall we? Because god would I take Anderson "it looks like he is doing 'The Worm' with those flops" Varejao over Cookie Dough.
lets be very clear- if shaq had pippen in his prime instead of kobe for 2000-2003, they wouldve won 3 in a row still. the BEST players rise to the occasion on the bigest stage. Wade did it last year and put the Heat on his back to the Championship. Duncan has done it multiple times....24ppg and 15rpg in the finals, comeon! Where are Kobe's moments of greatness? 81 points and other brief FLASHES of greatness yes. You guys talk about this guy like he is a top 10 all time player? how many of the top ten have 0 MVPs? You want to compare him to the all time greats, show me more than scoring titles and first round exists. Why do you think Nique didnt get into the Hall on his first ballot? and if Kobe didnt have Shaq it would be Nique all over again, cept for the defensive seperation. Like I said, he is one of the best in the game - top 4. Duncan would be the player Id choose to start a team, next is Wade, then Kobe/Lebron...its a close call for 3/4.
80, 90, 2000s Bird Magic Isiah Jordan Moses Dr. J Barkley Malone Stockton Ewing Robinson Hakeem Shaq Duncan there isnt a very good case that Kobe has had a better career than any of these guys except maybe Ewing.
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">the BEST players rise to the occasion on the bigest stage. Wade did it last year and put the Heat on his back to the Championship. Where are Kobe's moments of greatness?</div> Your obvious contradiction makes me want to jump out a window. You're also obviously a Kobe hater. I'm done.
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Great game by Lebron tonight btw</div> Not a great game a WONDERFUL game by Lebron he was all over the place lol
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">lets be very clear- if shaq had pippen in his prime instead of kobe for 2000-2003, they wouldve won 3 in a row still.</div> So? If Kobe had KG, or Tim Duncan, Lakers would probably still have won 3 in a row <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">the BEST players rise to the occasion on the bigest stage. Wade did it last year and put the Heat on his back to the Championship. Duncan has done it multiple times....24ppg and 15rpg in the finals, comeon! Where are Kobe's moments of greatness? 81 points and other brief FLASHES of greatness yes. </div> Give anyone a lineup with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters, and the second best player as Lamar Odom, they wouldn't make it past the first round either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys talk about this guy like he is a top 10 all time player? how many of the top ten have 0 MVPs? </div> MVP awards are a joke, and if you haven't figured that out yet, you're way behind. So technically, Steve Nash is better than Shaq O'Neal because he has more MVPs. Shaq O'Neal is as great as Allen Iverson because they all have 1 MVP. You don't judge a player biased on their MVPs, because the awards are a joke. It's voted by bias writers. Last year, PJ Brown got 1 vote, Kobe got 0 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You want to compare him to the all time greats, show me more than scoring titles and first round exists. Why do you think Nique didnt get into the Hall on his first ballot? and if Kobe didnt have Shaq it would be Nique all over again, cept for the defensive seperation. Like I said, he is one of the best in the game - top 4. Duncan would be the player Id choose to start a team, next is Wade, then Kobe/Lebron...its a close call for 3/4.</div> Nobody is saying Kobe is the best of all time, fact of the matter is, he won 3 championships. So basically you're telling me those championships should be eliminated, which is BS. Any player that has won a title had great players surrounding them. MJ had Pippen, Wade had Shaq and the refs
