After all the discussion about Farve, I wanted to get everyone's opinion on Marino. It seems that Dan is brought and eventually compared to Brett in the recent threads. Give me all the reasons why you think Dan is not the greatest ever. After a period of time, I will post one thought I had recently that may eliminate any anti-Marino sentiment.
Choosing between the greatest QB ever is like having steak, lobster, french fries, pizza, and the classic Star Wars Trilogy all in one night. :stupid: As good as Marino was he never won a Super Bowl. The easy counter is he never had that kind of a team. From what I saw on ESPN Classic, Marino never really wanted to run the ball. He was the type of QB that wanted to sling it every play. So I'm not sure if that should be taken into acount or not. That would explain why him and Jimmy Johnson clashed a little bit. Frankly John Elway had 2 more Super Bowl rings and had very good numbers as well. That would be my #1. After that Montana, Favre, Marino are all reallly close. In the words of CNN, To Close To Call.
This may sound strange, but I think Marino hung on way too long. Does anyone else think that Bobby Jones might be listed among the greatest golfers ever because he hung it up while on top? Marino faded slowly into mediocrity, and this is what Favre is also doing. Jordan will not be remembered for coming back as a player on a mediocre team who lost the physical ability to raise the level of play around him like he once did. The greatest players hang it up when the time is right. Sure, Marino didn't get the ring, but you can't blame him entirely for that. But he is 100% responsible for dragging out a storied career and leaving us with memories that fail to impress.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>This may sound strange, but I think Marino hung on way too long. Does anyone else think that Bobby Jones might be listed among the greatest golfers ever because he hung it up while on top? Marino faded slowly into mediocrity, and this is what Favre is also doing. Jordan will not be remembered for coming back as a player on a mediocre team who lost the physical ability to raise the level of play around him like he once did. The greatest players hang it up when the time is right. Sure, Marino didn't get the ring, but you can't blame him entirely for that. But he is 100% responsible for dragging out a storied career and leaving us with memories that fail to impress.</div> He hung around to win though, and that is understandable. He hadnt won the ring, and he kept making playoffs, so why leave?
I say really who gives a sh$# if a guy wants to keep playing. If he loves it and the team wants him really why should he quite just because the fans don't want to see him not in his prime. I think it's only a problem when the team doesn't want him back but don't want to tell the player no, which I hope isn't Favre's case and he has a great year to make it a mute point. ?as long as Marino could play who are the fans to tell a guy to quit his job. In 20 years no one remembers how a guy finished anyway. I sure only know about Unitis and Starr's great years, the bad are lost in history
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CanadianFavreFan)</div><div class='quotemain'>In 20 years no one remembers how a guy finished anyway. I sure only know about Unitis and Starr's great years, the bad are lost in history</div> Jordan would've been remembered for his last shot, and I do think Elway will be remembered for going out on top. And, of course, Bobby Jones...Bobby Jones. Staying long doesn't necessarily negate the good years, it just makes a person who is somewhat superhuman become more human. It is their choice, but I have a lot of respect for the star who finishes his career on top.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Choosing between the greatest QB ever is like having steak, lobster, french fries, pizza, and the classic Star Wars Trilogy all in one night. :stupid: As good as Marino was he never won a Super Bowl. The easy counter is he never had that kind of a team. From what I saw on ESPN Classic, Marino never really wanted to run the ball. He was the type of QB that wanted to sling it every play. So I'm not sure if that should be taken into acount or not. That would explain why him and Jimmy Johnson clashed a little bit. Frankly John Elway had 2 more Super Bowl rings and had very good numbers as well. That would be my #1. After that Montana, Favre, Marino are all reallly close. In the words of CNN, To Close To Call.</div> I have lost some respect for you, Porky, for saying Mr. Ed was allegedly the best of all time. Marino was a gunslinger but recognized the need for a running game. Shula IMO could have done more to help Dan. The reason he and JJ clashed was partly due to offensive philopsophy but mainly because of ego. When JJ was coach of the 'phins, it dawned on him after awhile realized he was 2nd fiddle. It explains the hacks he got @ RB to allegedly assist Marino. If you don't believe ego was what drove Jimmy then ask yourself why left the Cowboys and why Marino outlasted him in Miami?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>This may sound strange, but I think Marino hung on way too long. Does anyone else think that Bobby Jones might be listed among the greatest golfers ever because he hung it up while on top? Marino faded slowly into mediocrity, and this is what Favre is also doing. Jordan will not be remembered for coming back as a player on a mediocre team who lost the physical ability to raise the level of play around him like he once did. The greatest players hang it up when the time is right. Sure, Marino didn't get the ring, but you can't blame him entirely for that. But he is 100% responsible for dragging out a storied career and leaving us with memories that fail to impress.</div> I agree with VF simply for the fact that Marino could have retired earlier than when he did. Jordan, however, had nothing to prove! He was boosting his own ego and that is all IMO. Dan still had hope that he could eventually win a title.
I watched that show called "You can't blame (insert person) for (insert issue)" on ESPN and I saw the one called "You can't blame Dan Marino for not winning a Superbowl." I can't remember all of the points they made, but I know I pretty much agreed with all of them. Johnny Unitas is probably the greatest QB of all time. If you ask most of the "great" QBs, even they say that Johnny Unitas was no doubt the best. Joe Montana would probably be second on my list, even though I personally think he's a douche bag. Elway third. Marino fourth. Maybe Bradshaw fifth? Tarkenton?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Choosing between the greatest QB ever is like having steak, lobster, french fries, pizza, and the classic Star Wars Trilogy all in one night. :stupid: As good as Marino was he never won a Super Bowl. The easy counter is he never had that kind of a team. From what I saw on ESPN Classic, Marino never really wanted to run the ball. He was the type of QB that wanted to sling it every play. So I'm not sure if that should be taken into acount or not. That would explain why him and Jimmy Johnson clashed a little bit. Frankly John Elway had 2 more Super Bowl rings and had very good numbers as well. That would be my #1. After that Montana, Favre, Marino are all reallly close. In the words of CNN, To Close To Call.</div> I have lost some respect for you, Porky, for saying Mr. Ed was allegedly the best of all time. Marino was a gunslinger but recognized the need for a running game. Shula IMO could have done more to help Dan. The reason he and JJ clashed was partly due to offensive philopsophy but mainly because of ego. When JJ was coach of the 'phins, it dawned on him after awhile realized he was 2nd fiddle. It explains the hacks he got @ RB to allegedly assist Marino. If you don't believe ego was what drove Jimmy then ask yourself why left the Cowboys and why Marino outlasted him in Miami?</div> Jim Kelly and the Bills also seemed to get the best of Marino, Shula, and the Dolphins. I give Elway the edge pretty much because of the Super Bowls and for the fact that Elway was a Pro Bowl QB until he retired. They say winning is everything. You finish #1 and the rest tie for last place. Marino tied a lot in his career. Marino struggled a bit later in his career and Favre obviously has as well. Montana was probably a product of a system. All QB's kind of are (can't believe I just quoted Thiesman ) It's fun to wonder to think what Marino would've done with Roger Craig in the backfield and throwing the ball to Jerry Rice. I hate to bring in "what ifs" but it doesn't hurt too wonder. I completely forgot about Jonny U BF1. He was def ahead of his time. His name def has to be thrown into the hat. If I had to make a list.. 1. Elway 2. Montana 3. Marino/Favre (pends on how Favre goes out imo) 4. Favre/Marino 5. Jonny U ( I never got to see him play, that's mainly why I put him at #5) Brady and Manning when it's all said and done could really pass everyone especially if Manning wins a Super Bowl and keeps up his pace. I really hate making a list and singling one out for the best. Marino is probably my 2nd favorite QB to ever play the game only to Favre and I don?t think anyone can honestly say one is really better than the other. Really would you pass on either of these guys? That's just my take.
If I had to make a list which is strictly based on personal opinion I'd have to go with Johnny U #1 just for what he did way ahead of his time(read article in last SI) After that it's hard to choose between the modern QB's. If you go by winners Montana is there but look at all the Pro Bowlers he had every year. If you go strictly on winning you have to also add Otto Graham he did nothing but win. I think he played in the Championship game every year he played. To me Montana, Marino, Elway and Favre all could be interchanged between #2345. I know Bradshaw says Brett is the best he's ever seen but I know there's a bias there. I guess you just pick your favorite but respect the rest. I don't know why but somehow Manning just doesn't impress me but that's maybe just my anti manning feelings. Brady you wonder what he'd do without Belichek cause just pure skill he doesn't seem anything special but he sure can manage a game
Im not gonna argue the point about whos the best ever, because its all just speculation anyway....I will give you something I think contributed to him not winning a Super Bowl: In the 1983 draft, which most people consider the greatest QB draft of all time, 6 passers were taken in the 1st round....all were taken by AFC teams and the every team in the AFC East drafted one....over the next 17 years, those QBs represented the AFC 11 times in the Super Bowl(Marino 1, Elway 5, Kelly 4, Eason 1)....when you consider that up until the last 3 years of that run, none of them had won one, part of the reason is that they were eleimanting each other every year....they were constantly sending each other out of the playoffs....when you evaluate a QB, in terms of his ability to put his team on his shoulders and beat a superior team, you rarely consider the other teams QB....when both teams have Hall of Famers, its much harder for the one on the inferior team to steal a win, because the other QB can nearly match him....so when people make a point to call out Marino because he could never will his team to a title, consider that he was getting ousted by Buffalo, who had Kelly and Reed and Thurman....they were losing in the playoffs by scored like 44-34....when they met the Broncos, it was vs Elway and Davis and Sharpe and Rod Smith....Marino had the ability to win a ton of games with an inferior team(I think he did that alot), but when the other teams has a counterpart thats nearly as good, it gets really tough....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Im not gonna argue the point about whos the best ever, because its all just speculation anyway....I will give you something I think contributed to him not winning a Super Bowl: In the 1983 draft, which most people consider the greatest QB draft of all time, 6 passers were taken in the 1st round....all were taken by AFC teams and the every team in the AFC East drafted one....over the next 17 years, those QBs represented the AFC 11 times in the Super Bowl(Marino 1, Elway 5, Kelly 4, Eason 1)....when you consider that up until the last 3 years of that run, none of them had won one, part of the reason is that they were eleimanting each other every year....they were constantly sending each other out of the playoffs....when you evaluate a QB, in terms of his ability to put his team on his shoulders and beat a superior team, you rarely consider the other teams QB....when both teams have Hall of Famers, its much harder for the one on the inferior team to steal a win, because the other QB can nearly match him....so when people make a point to call out Marino because he could never will his team to a title, consider that he was getting ousted by Buffalo, who had Kelly and Reed and Thurman....they were losing in the playoffs by scored like 44-34....when they met the Broncos, it was vs Elway and Davis and Sharpe and Rod Smith....Marino had the ability to win a ton of games with an inferior team(I think he did that alot), but when the other teams has a counterpart thats nearly as good, it gets really tough....</div> Hard to argue that he won with less than the other qbs in the equation. He had his shot though. If your team is good enough to make it to super bowl, it is good enough to win it. Regardless, unitas threw for 40000 yards in a runners era and changed the game. He did it all. He did it all well. Statistically he wont match up, but he was the best.
You still have to play the game when you get there....so he gets to play the 49ers who had 2 HOFers and a slew of Pro Bowl worthy players, and hes alone with just about no one to help....and once again, in that game, hes facing another HOF QB....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>You still have to play the game when you get there....so he gets to play the 49ers who had 2 HOFers and a slew of Pro Bowl worthy players, and hes alone with just about no one to help....and once again, in that game, hes facing another HOF QB....</div> True. He didnt play his best game ever though. Its very close. Unitas won the titles, Marino didnt. Being the best isnt about being fair, it requires more than just skills.
A few of my thoughts - Dan Marino vs John Elway - Marino's stock was always higher than Elway's until the Broncos won back to back Super Bowls. I would like to point out that Elway NEVER won a Super Bowl before he had Terrell Davis running for him. Without Davis, Elway wouldn't have a ring and wouldn't be considered better than Marino outside of Denver. Dan Marino vs Jim Kelly - In this equation, Thurman Thomas and a very good defense lead by Bruce Smith was the difference. One of the reasons that I hated Tom Olivadotti, the Dolphins defensive coordinator in the early 90's, is because he never get our defense close to being able to stop the Bills and Thurman in particular. Even though the Bills got the better of the Dolphins during this time period, how many people seriously consider Jim Kelly to be better than Dan Marino. Dan Marino vs Johnny Unitas vs Joe Montana - These three guys are the three greatest QBs in NFL history in my mind. I'm not sure how you can seperate the three. I do feel that Montana was placed in the perfect system with greater talent all around him. However it's not the four Super Bowls that convince me of his greatness. It was his time with the Chiefs and how he elevated that team with his play that cemented his greatness in my mind. I never got to see Johnny U. actually play and it's hard to get a true feel for his greatness watching film. I did get to see Dan Marino play for seventeen years and watched Marino consistantly beat defenses that KNEW he was going to throw the ball. His ability to see the open receiver and pull the trigger made me feel like I was watching a player with super powers at times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaPackersGb)</div><div class='quotemain'> Bart Starr </div> If you need one guy for one game hard to not want Starr to be your field general
He may be one of the greatest on paper and he never had a great supporting cast. He still never won a SB, which automatically eliminates him from being the best ever in my mind.
