Which is worse, losing Fran Vazquez after we drafted him eleventh or losing Billy Donovan after we hired him? I'm just curious to see what you guys think. I'll give my opinion after some other people reply.
Honestly, Donovan. It seems to have had a more negative impact on the franchise than with the Vazquez situation.
Vasquez. There were still a few quality players on the board. If you just terminate Donovan's contract and hire someone else, no harm was really done except having a somewhat embarassing situation that makes the organization look sorta bad, but I don't think it'll hurt them long-term.
I think it's Donovan. If Vasquez decides to return to the NBA we would have the rights to sign him right? With Billy it's a little bit tricky. We need to build around Dwight not Vasquez. Dwight and Redick both expressed their happiness with our signing of Billy, and now their dreams of playing under Billy have been flushed down the toilet. If we fail to build around Dwight or Dwight is not happy with the new coach whoever that may be and leaves us for another team in the future like Shaq and T-Mac did, we are done for. Vasquez alone would not have sold 200 season tickets and he alone would not have reinvigorated our franchise to keep it in Orlando and build a new stadium.
Easily Vasquez. The Billy Donovan debacle is embarrassing, but mostly for him. What could the Magic have done? They were one of many NBA teams pursuing him and it was considered a great signing when they inked him. Nobody could have predicted him to wuss out like that. Drafting Fran Vasquez was terrible as well, but all the blame goes directly to the organization for that one. They didn't do their homework and came out looking like they had looked at some internet mock drafts to figure out who to pick. That wasted lottery pick really could've helped them right now, too.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Easily Vasquez. The Billy Donovan debacle is embarrassing, but mostly for him. What could the Magic have done? They were one of many NBA teams pursuing him and it was considered a great signing when they inked him. Nobody could have predicted him to wuss out like that. Drafting Fran Vasquez was terrible as well, but all the blame goes directly to the organization for that one. They didn't do their homework and came out looking like they had looked at some internet mock drafts to figure out who to pick. That wasted lottery pick really could've helped them right now, too.</div> My sentiments exactly. Besides, it's important to realize that Donovan wasn't a sure-thing as an NBA coach. In fact, almost every coach who has made the jump from college to the pro's has failed miserably, especially the ones whose coaching success hinge so much on recruiting and commanding respect from the players, like Donovan. I lost respect for Donovan when he was exposed for cheating by Roy Williams in the late 90's though. The guy's a shifty, oily fink with a Napoleon complex. Not only is it hard to respect a guy as shady as he is, but it's also hard to respect a guy who continues to recruit players in the mold of Teddy Dupay. I'm disappointed by this whole situation, but I'm disappointed for the NCAA, not the NBA. We just took back a horribly crooked coach.
I think Vasquez was worse. We could have had Danny Granger who would have been our lock at the SF position and would have fit nicely with the rest of our young core. Not to mention missing out on Green, Warrick, Lee, etc. Donovan might not have even succeeded at the pro level. At least with Donovan, we know we're done with him, we can move on and find a different coach. Vasquez on the other hand had us guessing when he'd come play for us, I think he claimed he'd stay in Spain for a year or two and then join the Magic, and then he changed his mind and said that he might come in 2008-09, and now I believe he's just going to stay in Spain forever.
Neither matter, as long as we get Stan Van Gundy. What matters with Vasquez was the fact we wasted a pick, because Vasquez sucks.
<div class="quote_poster">Anton Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think it's Donovan. If Vasquez decides to return to the NBA we would have the rights to sign him right? With Billy it's a little bit tricky. We need to build around Dwight not Vasquez. Dwight and Redick both expressed their happiness with our signing of Billy, and now their dreams of playing under Billy have been flushed down the toilet. If we fail to build around Dwight or Dwight is not happy with the new coach whoever that may be and leaves us for another team in the future like Shaq and T-Mac did, we are done for. Vasquez alone would not have sold 200 season tickets and he alone would not have reinvigorated our franchise to keep it in Orlando and build a new stadium.</div> I pretty much agree. The buzz around Orlando was incredible and now he let us down. If we get SVG I might say that Fran was worse though. <div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My sentiments exactly. Besides, it's important to realize that Donovan wasn't a sure-thing as an NBA coach. In fact, almost every coach who has made the jump from college to the pro's has failed miserably, especially the ones whose coaching success hinge so much on recruiting and commanding respect from the players, like Donovan. I lost respect for Donovan when he was exposed for cheating by Roy Williams in the late 90's though. The guy's a shifty, oily fink with a Napoleon complex. Not only is it hard to respect a guy as shady as he is, but it's also hard to respect a guy who continues to recruit players in the mold of Teddy Dupay. I'm disappointed by this whole situation, but I'm disappointed for the NCAA, not the NBA. We just took back a horribly crooked coach.</div> No coach that jumped from college to the pros was put in the situation that Donovan would have been put in. A playoff team with loads of young talent and plenty of cap space, not to mention potentially one of the most dominating bigs. I think Donovan could have succeeded. So that's why you hate him? Because Roy WIlliams accused him of cheating and it was proven that he didn't cheat. Roy Williams was just jealous that he couldn't get Mike Miller to Kansas, while some young hot shot got him to Florida. Donovan didn't cheat and Donovan doesn't cheat. Maybe Billy is a just a great recruiter. I don't see how that's so hard to believe especially considering guys like Ron Zook can recruit like crazy. Who wouldn't want to play in Florida? Hell Florida State even gets good recruits and they haven't made a tourney in awhile. Florida sells itself now. Who have we had since Teddy Dupay that were trouble makers? We had some egos, but not really any troublemakers since him. (Walsh/Roberson) Your hatred for Billy makes you completely wrong man.
To make it simple. It's gotta be donovan only because he actually made the choice to come here as vazquez didnt have that choice.
Whats worse is the Magic.. I mean.. how do u have two guys not want to come to your organization.. That has to say something, a coach you signed and a player u drafted.. I'm not trying to insult the Magic but it's what it looks like.
EASILY Franny. Donovan is an embarrassing moment at most. We might end up with Carlisle or SVG, so it won't be a big loss. However, we WASTED a pick in the draft when we could have gotten numerous other talent: Rashad McCants(a young athletic SG), Sean May, Danny Granger, Gerald Green, Hakim Warrick(ugh....Dwight and Hakim what a combo that could have been), Francisco Garc?a(an insanely good defensive SG/SF), Luther Head, David Lee(nuff said), Ronny Turiaf, or Monta Ellis. What a joke this organization is at times.
<div class="quote_poster">GatorsowntheNCAA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No coach that jumped from college to the pros was put in the situation that Donovan would have been put in. A playoff team with loads of young talent and plenty of cap space, not to mention potentially one of the most dominating bigs. I think Donovan could have succeeded. So that's why you hate him? Because Roy WIlliams accused him of cheating and it was proven that he didn't cheat. Roy Williams was just jealous that he couldn't get Mike Miller to Kansas, while some young hot shot got him to Florida. Donovan didn't cheat and Donovan doesn't cheat. Maybe Billy is a just a great recruiter. I don't see how that's so hard to believe especially considering guys like Ron Zook can recruit like crazy. Who wouldn't want to play in Florida? Hell Florida State even gets good recruits and they haven't made a tourney in awhile. Florida sells itself now. Who have we had since Teddy Dupay that were trouble makers? We had some egos, but not really any troublemakers since him. (Walsh/Roberson) Your hatred for Billy makes you completely wrong man.</div> We'll never know whether or not Donovan would have succeeded, but the odds were certainly against him doing so with his predecessors failing so miserably. Yes, some failed because they were put in bad situations, but a lot of them failed because they weren't able to transition their coaching style to the professional ranks. These are guys like Rick Pitino, John Calipari, etc.; guys who are more or less Donovan clones. Take the situation Calipari was in with New Jersey, for example. They had two of the hottest young stars in the league (Kendall Gill and Kerry Kittles), as well as a dominant rebounder in the middle (Jayson Williams - 14 rpg). They even had a great point guard running the show (Sam Cassell), unlike the Magic. The pieces were definitely in place for Calipari to succeed, but he flopped, just like Donovan had a great chance of doing. As for why I hate Donovan and why I think he's shifty: When two of the most respected coaches of the modern era, Roy Williams and Mike Montgomery, accuse another coach of cheating, I tend to side with them and not a message board poster who's completely outside of the collegiate athletics scene. Not to mention that Florida's basketball program was, in fact, cited for secondary violations. Where's there's smoke, there's fire, especially in college basketball where cheating is as abundant as it is. Take John Calipari for example, again. While Calipari has never been proven to have cheated to the extent where he has been dismissed, does that mean he's not a cheater? Of course he is. To me, him and Billy Donovan are in the same boat. Okay, keep believing that Billy Donovan hasn't cheated, even though there's plenty of evidence suggesting otherwise, but there's one thing you can't deny, and that's Billy Donovan's lack of class. No, I'm not talking about his cheating, nor this recent debacle with the Magic. I'm talking about the lack of discipline that his organization has. From Teddy Dupay to the present, the University of Florida has been in the same class of schools like Cincinnati, Oklahoma State, Memphis, and Missouri --- teams that recruit players with a blind eye to their character. Not to mention that these teams have built their legacies by recruiting the shadiest of prospects from far away places. It's one thing to believe an in-state kid wanting to play for his hometown school, but when elite, yet sketchy prospects from all around the country start to flock to a school where there's no basketball tradition and not much of an academic tradition either, I have to at least wonder what the magnet is. Teddy Dupay, Matt Walsh, Anthony Roberson, Joakim Noah, etc.; Florida's players have been obnoxious and have shown no respect for the personal space of other players, coaches, fans, cheerleaders, and hell, even the ballboys. Showboating is tolerable to an extent, as long as it's on the court, but once you invade another person's space, especially a coach, woman, or child, that crosses the line. Speaking of Dupay, it's not just his arrogance that turned me against him, nor was it the fact that he gambled on collegiate athletics while still a collegiate athlete himself (a huge no-no in the NCAA) and the university was never properly punished for letting him do so. What really makes me sick to my stomach were his actions in the 2000 National Championship game. I'm sure you've seen it, but you didn't follow it like you follow the Gators' games today, because you were a Maryland fan. I'll fill you in though. Right in the most crucial juncture of the game, when Florida started to lose control, what did Billy Donovan do? He sent his goon Teddy Dupay into the game to sideline Mateen Cleaves. Not only did he take Cleaves out of the game, but he hurt his chances of having the professional career he could have otherwise had. You can disagree with me all you want, but please, don't tell me that with all of the reasons I cited, that my hatred for Donovan is completely unwarranted. * Also, I don't mean anything personal by this post. I hate the University of Florida's athletic program, but that's nothing against you at all. Why can't you just root for Maryland like you used to?
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We'll never know whether or not Donovan would have succeeded, but the odds were certainly against him doing so with his predecessors failing so miserably. Yes, some failed because they were put in bad situations, but a lot of them failed because they weren't able to transition their coaching style to the professional ranks. These are guys like Rick Pitino, John Calipari, etc.; guys who are more or less Donovan clones. Take the situation Calipari was in with New Jersey, for example. They had two of the hottest young stars in the league (Kendall Gill and Kerry Kittles), as well as a dominant rebounder in the middle (Jayson Williams - 14 rpg). They even had a great point guard running the show (Sam Cassell), unlike the Magic. The pieces were definitely in place for Calipari to succeed, but he flopped, just like Donovan had a great chance of doing. As for why I hate Donovan and why I think he's shifty: When two of the most respected coaches of the modern era, Roy Williams and Mike Montgomery, accuse another coach of cheating, I tend to side with them and not a message board poster who's completely outside of the collegiate athletics scene. Not to mention that Florida's basketball program was, in fact, cited for secondary violations. Where's there's smoke, there's fire, especially in college basketball where cheating is as abundant as it is. Take John Calipari for example, again. While Calipari has never been proven to have cheated to the extent where he has been dismissed, does that mean he's not a cheater? Of course he is. To me, him and Billy Donovan are in the same boat. Okay, keep believing that Billy Donovan hasn't cheated, even though there's plenty of evidence suggesting otherwise, but there's one thing you can't deny, and that's Billy Donovan's lack of class. No, I'm not talking about his cheating, nor this recent debacle with the Magic. I'm talking about the lack of discipline that his organization has. From Teddy Dupay to the present, the University of Florida has been in the same class of schools like Cincinnati, Oklahoma State, Memphis, and Missouri --- teams that recruit players with a blind eye to their character. Not to mention that these teams have built their legacies by recruiting the shadiest of prospects from far away places. It's one thing to believe an in-state kid wanting to play for his hometown school, but when elite, yet sketchy prospects from all around the country start to flock to a school where there's no basketball tradition and not much of an academic tradition either, I have to at least wonder what the magnet is. Teddy Dupay, Matt Walsh, Anthony Roberson, Joakim Noah, etc.; Florida's players have been obnoxious and have shown no respect for the personal space of other players, coaches, fans, cheerleaders, and hell, even the ballboys. Showboating is tolerable to an extent, as long as it's on the court, but once you invade another person's space, especially a coach, woman, or child, that crosses the line. Speaking of Dupay, it's not just his arrogance that turned me against him, nor was it the fact that he gambled on collegiate athletics while still a collegiate athlete himself (a huge no-no in the NCAA) and the university was never properly punished for letting him do so. What really makes me sick to my stomach were his actions in the 2000 National Championship game. I'm sure you've seen it, but you didn't follow it like you follow the Gators' games today, because you were a Maryland fan. I'll fill you in though. Right in the most crucial juncture of the game, when Florida started to lose control, what did Billy Donovan do? He sent his goon Teddy Dupay into the game to sideline Mateen Cleaves. Not only did he take Cleaves out of the game, but he hurt his chances of having the professional career he could have otherwise had. You can disagree with me all you want, but please, don't tell me that with all of the reasons I cited, that my hatred for Donovan is completely unwarranted. * Also, I don't mean anything personal by this post. I hate the University of Florida's athletic program, but that's nothing against you at all. Why can't you just root for Maryland like you used to? </div> That's and informative and well-written post, thanks for the input. I don't follow NCAA Basketball at ALL(football is another story ) so I found it very helpful. But I'm sure the many Gators fans that are also Magic fans would love to debate you on this matter.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We'll never know whether or not Donovan would have succeeded, but the odds were certainly against him doing so with his predecessors failing so miserably. Yes, some failed because they were put in bad situations, but a lot of them failed because they weren't able to transition their coaching style to the professional ranks. These are guys like Rick Pitino, John Calipari, etc.; guys who are more or less Donovan clones. Take the situation Calipari was in with New Jersey, for example. They had two of the hottest young stars in the league (Kendall Gill and Kerry Kittles), as well as a dominant rebounder in the middle (Jayson Williams - 14 rpg). They even had a great point guard running the show (Sam Cassell), unlike the Magic. The pieces were definitely in place for Calipari to succeed, but he flopped, just like Donovan had a great chance of doing.</div> No one has inherited a big with potential like Dwight Howard or another big like Darko(hasn't proven much yet, but just wait he'll be very very solid). No one has also gotten on a team that has so much young talent at his disposal to trade, no one has gotten a team with this much young talent and $13 mil in cap space . Seriously, how many teams can you look at and say everyone is tradeable. There's really not 1 player with a bad contract that a team wouldn't want to pay. (Battie/Turkoglu are the worst, but they really aren't that bad). I agree though it's not a given that he would have succeeded, but Dwight/Darko/JJ all spoke out about how much they liked this decision and now it's taken from them. Can they play for SVG knowing that they could have played for Billy? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for why I hate Donovan and why I think he's shifty: When two of the most respected coaches of the modern era, Roy Williams and Mike Montgomery, accuse another coach of cheating, I tend to side with them and not a message board poster who's completely outside of the collegiate athletics scene.</div> Again, the NCAA had an investigation on his "cheating" and they found absolutely ZERO evidence that he cheated. I trust the NCAA's investigation more than I trust 2 coaches..... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to mention that Florida's basketball program was, in fact, cited for secondary violations. Where's there's smoke, there's fire, especially in college basketball where cheating is as abundant as it is.</div> Secondary violations in the Donovan era? I don't really remember violations other than before Donovan(Vernon Maxwell era). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Take John Calipari for example, again. While Calipari has never been proven to have cheated to the extent where he has been dismissed, does that mean he's not a cheater? Of course he is. To me, him and Billy Donovan are in the same boat.</div> I prefer the innocent until proven guilty cliche. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, keep believing that Billy Donovan hasn't cheated, even though there's plenty of evidence suggesting otherwise, but there's one thing you can't deny, and that's Billy Donovan's lack of class.</div> The only evidence is Roy Williams being jealous that a young hot shot like Billy can get a blue chip recruit in Mike Miller over him and then accuse Billy of cheating, because no way anyone would want to go to the University of Florida to play basketball. I still think Billy is one of the classiest individuals in college basketball(bias and it's been altered quite a bit with how he possibly could screw the Magic). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I'm not talking about his cheating, nor this recent debacle with the Magic. I'm talking about the lack of discipline that his organization has. From Teddy Dupay to the present, the University of Florida has been in the same class of schools like Cincinnati, Oklahoma State, Memphis, and Missouri --- teams that recruit players with a blind eye to their character. </div> Who has character issues that Billy has recruited the last 5 years? Florida is becoming a very hard school to get into even for athletes. Florida football has been turning down quite a bit of recruits lately, not to mention basketball has turned away 2 recruits in the last 2 years. (Doneal Mack last year and Derwin Kitchen the year before) Both were one of the most highly touted recruits in each class for Florida. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to mention that these teams have built their legacies by recruiting the shadiest of prospects from far away places. It's one thing to believe an in-state kid wanting to play for his hometown school, but when elite, yet sketchy prospects from all around the country start to flock to a school where there's no basketball tradition and not much of an academic tradition either, I have to at least wonder what the magnet is.</div> Again give some examples. Brandon Powell? Again maybe Billy Donovan is a good recruiter. You said it yourself that that was one of his strengths. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Teddy Dupay, Matt Walsh, Anthony Roberson, Joakim Noah, etc.; Florida's players have been obnoxious and have shown no respect for the personal space of other players, coaches, fans, cheerleaders, and hell, even the ballboys. Showboating is tolerable to an extent, as long as it's on the court, but once you invade another person's space, especially a coach, woman, or child, that crosses the line.</div> Joakim Noah has been obnoxious. He has shown plenty of respect for Billy Donovan and the other players on the team. Other than when baited by another player he has rarely spoke out about another player. I think he said something about a Tennessee player in 06 and I know he into words with Ramel Bradley after the UK home game. The only other example I can think of is the incident with Stallings, but that wasn't really his fault. He didn't really do anything other than reach for the ball. Stallings hit him. The cheerleader scenario, he was playing horrible, he fell down for a ball, was frustrated and the cheerleader hit him with the pom pom. He swiped at the pom pom, but I'm almost positive he didn't touch the cheerleader. I don't understand the problem with that either. What did Walsh/Roberson do that involved any of this stuff. They weren't really obnoxious on the court and I don't think they really had any big incidences on the court(not that I can remember). Not to mention for every single Dupay/Noah we get a David Lee, Lee Humphrey, Corey Brewer, Al Horford, and Taureen Green. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Speaking of Dupay, it's not just his arrogance that turned me against him, nor was it the fact that he gambled on collegiate athletics while still a collegiate athlete himself (a huge no-no in the NCAA) and the university was never properly punished for letting him do so. What really makes me sick to my stomach were his actions in the 2000 National Championship game. I'm sure you've seen it, but you didn't follow it like you follow the Gators' games today, because you were a Maryland fan. I'll fill you in though. Right in the most crucial juncture of the game, when Florida started to lose control, what did Billy Donovan do? He sent his goon Teddy Dupay into the game to sideline Mateen Cleaves. Not only did he take Cleaves out of the game, but he hurt his chances of having the professional career he could have otherwise had.</div> Don't remember that at all. I still can't believe that Billy would send someone out to intentionally injure a player. Teddy Dupay was our starting PG all 37 games. Maybe Dupay had the intent to hurt, but I seriously doubt that Billy sent in his starting PG to intentionally hurt Cleaves. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">* Also, I don't mean anything personal by this post. I hate the University of Florida's athletic program, but that's nothing against you at all. Why can't you just root for Maryland like you used to? </div> I prefer to win recent championships.
I would say that losing Vasquez was. It's easier to get another coach. But losing a 1st round draft choice can't be retained.
