<div class="quote_poster">kobimel Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have nothing against Muslims or Arabs. Just against the ones who kill innocent people all of the time.</div> Same here, bro. What have Osama and Saddam and other extremists done for us, the Muslims? They've only made our lives harder. EDIT: Oh and great post of the song lyrics by Lupe, Legacy. I like that song too.
I think I-Miss-MJ just doesn't understand the Religion and as such catagorizes it. A little information in small detail would assist I'm sure. Depends if he's willing to learn.
<div class="quote_poster">monty001 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not just in Afghanistan Umair. Even in Pakistan and India and all other Islamic countries. You see it mostly in the 3rd world countries because their lack of education. Parents don't know where to send their kids for school or what a proper education should be like. They figure that "Hey, our kid will learn about Islam. What a great thing." Little do they realize that the so called "teachers" are extremists and what not. I'm not saying that all of them are. Just unfortunate that they influence little children so much, many of which think what they are learning is the right way.</div> Exactly. You are exactly right. It also happens in other countries besides Afghanistan. I said Afghanistan because it came off the top of my head, and most of it happens there.
<div class="quote_poster">monty001 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not just in Afghanistan Umair. Even in Pakistan and India and all other Islamic countries. You see it mostly in the 3rd world countries because their lack of education. Parents don't know where to send their kids for school or what a proper education should be like. They figure that "Hey, our kid will learn about Islam. What a great thing." Little do they realize that the so called "teachers" are extremists and what not. I'm not saying that all of them are. Just unfortunate that they influence little children so much, many of which think what they are learning is the right way.</div> Exactly. You are exactly right. It also happens in other countries besides Afghanistan. I said Afghanistan because it came off the top of my head, and most of it happens there. <div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Umair, I would pay attention to Monty, he's right. More then 40 percent of Muslim children in extremely poor sections are taught to hate and kill. They're brainwashed from the beginning of their lives. I remember a friend of mine (RIP) who was in the middle-east and called me from there telling me that some children in certain areas are yelling at the troops in their language, "death to American patrol, Allah will destroy you in the afterlife." Does that read anything to you like you learned about Allah? Of course not, but these poor children are taught that your Religion is about fighting and killing the enemy. These people are taking your Religion and throwing dirt on everything it stands for.</div> I agree 100% with what Monty is saying. We are basically saying the same thing. It's just that I said Afghanistan only while it happens in a lot of other countries too. The parts I bolded are exactly what I said in my other post. I dont get why your telling me to pay attention to Monty's post when we said about the same thing.
Don't you guys think its rough, that if someone changes their religion from Islam, the hadiths (and the 4 schools of Islam) teach they should be killed?<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17: Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." </div> Or that if someone steals (something worth at least 3 dirhams - the price of a rope or a shield), they should have their right hand cut off?<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 8, Book 81, Number 774: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah curses a man who steals an egg and gets his hand cut off, or steals a rope and gets his hands cut off." Al-A'mash said, "People used to interpret the Baida as an iron helmet, and they used to think that the rope may cost a few dirhams." </div> Or that a man and woman (who has her period) should not be alone in a room together? (unless husband and wife, or blood relations)<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 4, Book 52, Number 250: Narrated Ibn Abbas: That he heard the Prophet saying, "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)."...</div> Or that if someone is drunk he should be beaten.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 8, Book 81, Number 764: Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet beat a drunk with palm-leaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave (such a sinner) forty lashes. Volume 8, Book 81, Number 765: Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith: An-Nu'man or the son of An-Nu'man was brought to the Prophet on a charge of drunkenness. So the Prophet ordered all the men present in the house, to beat him. So all of them beat him, and I was also one of them who beat him with shoes.</div> Side note: Does anyone know what this hadith means? Does Islam consider any pictures made are bad? including photographs? Or does it mean something else? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 9, Book 93, Number 646: Narrated Aisha: Allah's Apostle said, "The painter of these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection, and it will be said to them, Make alive what you have created.' " </div>
<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Don't you guys think its rough, that if someone changes their religion from Islam, the hadiths (and the 4 schools of Islam) teach they should be killed? Or that if someone steals (something worth at least 3 dirhams - the price of a rope or a shield), they should have their right hand cut off? Or that a man and woman (who has her period) should not be alone in a room together? (unless husband and wife, or blood relations) Or that if someone is drunk he should be beaten. Side note: Does anyone know what this hadith means? Does Islam consider any pictures made are bad? including photographs? Or does it mean something else?</div> You're adding more weight to Islam being an extremist religion. The anti-drinking thing is retarded. Cut off your hand for stealing? Insane. Changing your religion and you are kILLED? Face it, tHese people are lunatics.... U.S. democracy is flawed, but this is barbaric.
<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Don't you guys think its rough, that if someone changes their religion from Islam, the hadiths (and the 4 schools of Islam) teach they should be killed? Or that if someone steals (something worth at least 3 dirhams - the price of a rope or a shield), they should have their right hand cut off? Or that a man and woman (who has her period) should not be alone in a room together? (unless husband and wife, or blood relations) Or that if someone is drunk he should be beaten. Side note: Does anyone know what this hadith means? Does Islam consider any pictures made are bad? including photographs? Or does it mean something else?</div> You're adding more weight to Islam being an extremist religion. The anti-drinking thing is retarded. Where I'm from (Dublin, Ireland) you are CONGRATULATED if you are drunk, not beaten. Cut off your hand for stealing? Insane. Changing your religion and you are kILLED? Face it, tHese people are lunatics.... U.S. democracy is flawed, but this is barbaric.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry I couldn't hear you over the explosions of suicide bombers and planes flying into buildings.</div> I'll be honest, when I hear the word "Muslim", that's the first thing I think of. All religions have flaws....but Islam takes it to a whole new level. Not trying to offend anyone, but that's how it is. I have no religion, and I'm happy. Do I believe in God? Yes.
What do you mean by flaws? Who creates these flaws? Is it the Religion itself or is it the people who choose to act in such a way (which mind you is forbidden) that it creates a certain stereotype.
When it comes to the hadith, I think Islam suffers from the same problem that the other Abrahimic traditions do (Judaism, Christianity) as well as most religions in general. There's a significant portion of Muslims that consider the interpretations and opinions of those scholars to be infallible. However, people need to realize that the historical setting surrounding those texts explains a lot. These people weren't insane for suggesting such cruel punishments, they weren't bigots for viewing women in that light, and that's largely because that's how everybody behaved back then. But when it comes to fitting Islam within a modern democratic society, IMO, the hadith need to be considered as supplementary to the Quran and the fundamental Islamic philosophy. This is a challenge currently facing all the religions (eg: Christians have the same problems with some of the stuff said in the Gospels) and I believe the answer is to emphasize the basic spiritual knowledge, as opposed to the opinions of some scholars on how Islam should influence every aspect of society.
I will answer all posts directed at me. 1. I never catorgorised an entire religion as terrorists. 2. Islam may preach peace. That's fine. I accept that, but clearly if Terrorists are doing this in the name of Allah, they either do not understand the Qua'ran (sp?) or have some sort of bizarro Qua'ran. I doubt they say Islam just for fun either way. 3. Regardless of how or why Terrorists use Islam as a reason, I really do not think anyone can claim 'Islam is Peace' even if that is the first 3 words in the holy book when there are these extremists around. 4. I absolutely DO NOT think all Muslims are terrorists BUT I think Islam is fundamentally flawed (as all religions are don't get me wrong) if the message is peace, yet others read it to kill in the name of Allah or whatever they do. 5. I am not American. And I do not hate Muslims or Islam.
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree 100% with what Monty is saying. We are basically saying the same thing. It's just that I said Afghanistan only while it happens in a lot of other countries too. The parts I bolded are exactly what I said in my other post. I dont get why your telling me to pay attention to Monty's post when we said about the same thing.</div> I'm writing that you pay attention because I wrote a lot of this information in my first post on the first page and you missed it along with other portions. I figured Monty was helping you out. No worries, here was my original post. <div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">People that think this religion is evil and all that crap are just clueless and careless. That's alright, you don't have to care. I'm not religious myself and I don't practice or follow any, but I learn what I can. Those extemist Islamic people don't even know much about their own religion obviously. Why? Well, I clearly remember reading that you're allowed to kill your enemies, but not any innocent. What do the Islamic terrorists mostly do? Kill the innocent. Doesn't even make any sense, they're just lost and brainwashed. They believe that if they die for their causes that virgin women will await them in the afterlife. Right, right.</div>
The Hadith take deep interpretation to fully understand. That's why it's advised to read the Hadith along with the explanations. Also, there are different level's of Hadith. Some are weighted more over the others because of their authenticity. This would be a very long, long discussion and my knowledge isn't that great as well, so I'll refrain from going into detail. However, if anyone is interested I can go do some research and ask around to get a good explanation. I-Miss-Mj: I understand your point of do, I really do. But it's still unfair to judge Islam in such a way. These extremists don't have a different Quran, they just have different people giving them the explanation of things. Again, the lack of education comes up. The people carrying out these acts are not very educated and therefore their minds are manipulated easily. They are made to think that this is what Allah wants. He wants us to go "kill the enemy". The Quran says to defend yourself and fight the enemy. Never does it say to kill innocent people.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They are made to think that this is what Allah wants. He wants us to go "kill the enemy". The Quran says to defend yourself and fight the enemy. Never does it say to kill innocent people.</div> That's exactly what I put in my first post.
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Islam is a religion of peace.</div> Religion and peace should never be in the same sentence. It's like saying Hitler and Jesus were BFF. You people need to be educated away from your books. Realize the light inside yourselves, not inside some forged text.
<div class="quote_poster">Kidd Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> All religions have flaws....but Islam takes it to a whole new level. Not trying to offend anyone, but that's how it is. </div> How so? Because a bunch of idiots do bad things, it doesn't mean the religion is full of flaws.
<div class="quote_poster">Sasha Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Religion and peace should never be in the same sentence. It's like saying Hitler and Jesus were BFF. You people need to be educated away from your books. Realize the light inside yourselves, not inside some forged text.</div> I agree with this sentiment. That fact that one of the greatest humanitarians that our world has ever known (Gandhi) was killed in the name of religion by a man who didn't like the idea of him preaching peace between Hindus and Muslims should say it all.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How so? Because a bunch of idiots do bad things, it doesn't mean the religion is full of flaws.</div> Please explain to me with factual evidence the validity of religion. I'm dying to know.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How so? Because a bunch of idiots do bad things, it doesn't mean the religion is full of flaws.</div>He might be referring to post #23, about the punishment for leaving Islam, stealing, being drunk, and a man and woman not being allowed to be alone together. Or other Bukhari authentic traditions: Mohammed believes women are deficient in intelligence and religion: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." </div> Mohammed took the land the Jews owned in Khaibar, and then said they could only use it if they gave him half of its yield.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 3, Book 44, Number 678: Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle rented the land of Khaibar to the Jews on the condition that they would work on it and cultivate it and take half of its yield. </div> Mohammed taught that stones will betray the Jews hiding behind them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " </div> No muslim should be killed for killing an infidel. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283: Narrated Abu Juhaifa: I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." </div> If someone tries to walk in front of a muslim while praying, Mohammed taught that if he persists in trying to pass, the muslim should fight with him to stop him.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Volume 4, Book 54, Number 495: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "If while you are praying, somebody intends to pass in front of you, prevent him; and should he insist, prevent him again; and if he insists again, fight with him (i.e. prevent him violently e.g. pushing him violently), because such a person is (like) a devil."...</div> http://www.isna.net/services/library/hadith/bukhari/
<div class="quote_poster">Sasha Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Please explain to me with factual evidence the validity of religion. I'm dying to know.</div> Just read their books. The Bible, the Qur'an, the Torah. All of them say a bunch of stuff, but you usually follow the on you believe in most and or agree with the rules. To me, most of the things that are said in the Qu'ran. I agree more with Islamic stuff than I do with Christiany, Hinduism, Judaism, and all of the other religions. Plus I have learned alot more upon Islam with my parents enrolling me in some classes that teach religion. What religion are you Sasha (if any) and why did you choose to follow it?
