<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When are you finally going to get it? When are you Lakers fans finally going to realize that Kobe Bryant doesn't like you nearly as much as you like him? When are you going to get it into your painfully loyal souls that Bryant has taken everything you believe about him, casually wadded it up and tossed it on the floor as he heads out of town? You're not his soul mate, you're his sweat towel. He has trivialized your loyalty, toyed with your faith and trampled on your tradition. And still you beg the Lakers not to trade him? When are you finally going to get it? Bryant just doesn't want to leave the Lakers, he wants to leave you. You, the guy from El Monte who spends his tax refund on a one-tenth share of an upper-bowl season ticket? Bryant has publicly and repeatedly devalued your investment. You, the woman from Torrance with the oversized No. 24 jersey? Bryant has publicly and repeatedly damaged the credibility of that uniform. And, you, the Riverside father and son who can't afford tickets but cheer for all the Lakers on television? Bryant has publicly and repeatedly ripped those players. You say you love Bryant because he is entertaining. What has happened in the last several weeks is not good entertainment. Blowing up the family car in anger over a sputtering engine is not good entertainment. At this moment, Bryant is not Magic Johnson, he is Paris Hilton. He is not Jerry West, he is Lindsay Lohan. He is not the old show-time Hollywood, he is the new spoiled Hollywood, and again I ask, this is entertainment? You say you love Bryant because he is a winner. Leveling your organization is not the move of a winner. Whining and crying publicly for a trade that will force the Lakers into accepting something less than full value is not the actions of a winner. Tim Duncan quietly allowing a tiny little dude from France to win the NBA Finals MVP, that is the move of a winner. Dwyane Wade's quiet acceptance of Shaquille O'Neal to the Miami Heat, that is the move of a winner. Three years after being anointed as the solution, Bryant has decided instead to be the problem, and I ask, this is a winner? The latest Bryant news would be funny, if it weren't so sad. Just like those women who show their private parts to paparazzi, Bryant has profanely ripped the Lakers to two strangers in a parking lot. The two guys videotaped the rant on a digital camera that doubles as a video recorder, and they are now trying to sell access to the alleged tape for a couple of bucks a pop. "It's fair game, him talking to people in the middle of the street," said Rob, one of the parking lot guys. Rob, who refused to give his last name, played the tape for me over the phone Tuesday night. Yeah, it sounded like Bryant. Yeah, it was short but nasty. Two things come to mind here. First, why would anybody pay to hear Bryant rip the Lakers when he's spent the last month doing it for free? Two, if Bryant hates the Lakers so badly that he would trash them to bystanders in a parking lot, do you really think he should be running the team on the court? All of which leads to the one question that has been as persistent and peculiar as Bryant's mouth. Why do Lakers fans still love him?</div> Source: LA Times Kobe is getting killed today in the local media.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're not his soul mate, you're his sweat towel. He has trivialized your loyalty, toyed with your faith and trampled on your tradition. And still you beg the Lakers not to trade him? When are you finally going to get it? Bryant just doesn't want to leave the Lakers, he wants to leave you. </div> Oh man that is harsh, the media is really on Kobe in this one. I think his latest antics show that maybe he doesn't love LA anymore, but you never know, until he says otherwise.
The only reason this is happening is because of the constant rumours about him moving. I bet Kobe wishes he would have kept his mouth shut and expressed his concerns within the organization. It's not his fault that there are so many people pretending to be "insiders" by making up trade rumours but they wouldn't be doing that if he never went public with this in the first place. I believe he wants to stay in LA and he will, but these rumours are going to fly around all summer.
I don't care much for Plaschke usually, but this article is spot-on. I don't want Kobe to be a Laker anymore, but it'll suck to see him go. It makes me feel a little better that Kobe will probably read this, as he does, apparently, read the Times.
^^LOL Well that article told the truth?Why we like Kobe is because he is a great player and the best in the world right know.
<div class="quote_poster">YourNewChef Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't take anything Bill Plaschke says seriously, he's a douche.</div> He's been calling for Kobe's head since he got here. Plaschke is proably geeked up about the idea of Kobe being traded out of Los Angeles, and he wanted to take a few more shots at him. I wonder what Plaschke if Kobe is traded? He'll have to find someone else to rip on. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Three years after being anointed as the solution, Bryant has decided instead to be the problem, and I ask, this is a winner?</div> I did agree with this part of the article.
<div class="quote_poster">YourNewChef Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't take anything Bill Plaschke says seriously, he's a douche.</div> Right On I believe the same way
I can't wait until Bill starts to write about Bynum. The guy is an idiot, I don't know how the hell he has a job.
This article pretty much sums up what I am thinking. I don't understand why the Laker fans are still on his crotch after he has publically disgraced his team. I hated Tmac for giving up on the Magic and sort of demanding a trade and he didn't do anything close to what Kobe is doing. If I was a Laker fan I would hope Kobe is out of LA ASAP.
The TMAC situation is different, I think. I don't think Kobe disgraced the team, either. Kobe and Phil were promised that they'd have an opportunity to contend, yet the management has clearly passed on deals to make us a contender and are planning to build for the future, which is evident. I don't think I need to explain this to you. If Kobe just upped and said that he wanted out for no damn reason, then that's a different story. I think it's obvious there is also a tango for power, between Jim and Phil. Jim for the future, Phil for now. I think the only reason Kobe would be this upset and adamant about a trade would be that someone higher up is scheming to build for the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The TMAC situation is different, I think. I don't think Kobe disgraced the team, either. Kobe and Phil were promised that they'd have an opportunity to contend, yet the management has clearly passed on deals to make us a contender and are planning to build for the future, which is evident. I don't think I need to explain this to you. If Kobe just upped and said that he wanted out for no damn reason, then that's a different story. I think it's obvious there is also a tango for power, between Jim and Phil. Jim for the future, Phil for now. I think the only reason Kobe would be this upset and adamant about a trade would be that someone higher up is scheming to build for the future.</div> The Tmac situation is different because he didn't publicly go out and say he wanted to be traded. He told John Weisbrod(hockey guy) that as of now he would opt out of his contract at the end of the season and Weisbrod decided to not have the same situation with Shaq. So Tmac didn't demand a trade and he didn't trash the organization until after he got dealt(which in turn got John Weisbrod canned). Do you really think the Magic didn't promise Tmac that they would try to put support around him? I hate Tmac's guts because of the bullshit move that he did and I can't imagine anyone still liking Kobe for doing WAAAAAAAY more than Tmac did. Give me a break on the whole he got lied to speech. Every star gets told that they will try to get people to compete. Not every star gets lucky enough to compete for a championship. The Lakers organization isn't trying to screw Kobe, they are looking at all potential angles. In hindsight their moves aren't that great, but they are still trying. Once Kobe leaves(either by opting out in 2 years) or after he gets out of his prime the Lakers would be absolutely screwed, while more than likely not winning a championship. All the rumors for stars were just that rumors from a local media for either team. Not to mention every star that they were looking at had problems and if it didn't work out the Lakers would be absolutely screwed because they would have no trade bait. I just don't see why out of all the superstars in the NBA, Kobe is the one entitled to be on a contending team when he makes nearly 2/5ths of his teams cap. Does he realize that they can't do much with him making $20 mil a season and pretty much no trade bait? btw, cry me a river on a team building for the future. Sorry for not being a Laker fan where you are almost always in the running for a championship, but the majority of teams have to build for the future sometime in their history. Sorry that I'm not You all have to realize that all the Lakers have to trade right now is..... -Andrew Bynum, a young big man who may or may not work out. Hasn't really shown that many signs of greatness or at least not any consistency. Not to mention Kobe hates him, so he can't be that good. -Lamar Odom, a pretty good player that is getting paid superstar money. He is certainly not worth $28 mil for 2 years. Talk about him getting dealt next summer with $14 mil expiring. -Kwame Brown, 8 million expiring. He likely won't play much next season or at all with his injury, so he would HAVE to go to a rebuilding team that typically doesn't have much talent other than a couple of young players that they aren't looking to trade. Not to mention that any deal would likely happen close to the deadline and not this offseason, because who knows how good a team can be in June. -Luke Walton, a role player that is good in the triangle, but doesn't fit many other offenses. -Jordan Farmar, maybe a decent PG. He's young, but if he couldn't even beat Smush Parker out for a starting job, who knows how good he really is. -#19 pick, while the draft is considered a good draft, the draft isn't very deep after the top 7-8 picks and will be basically projects. You don't have enough to trade to get 2 stars alongside Kobe. Kobe + 1 star(outside of MAYBE KG) wouldn't compete with Dallas, Phoenix, or San Antonio and possibly Utah/Houston. Even KG would be a stretch considering everything that you would have to give up. Then even after that Kobe will still complain and probably opt out after 2 years. Their best move is to build for the future and deal Kobe, because they likely won't be able to get enough talent around Kobe to win a championship with the little trade bait that they have and in turn would set the organization back several years after Kobe is gone or gets out of his prime. They wouldn't be able to rebuild and would be stuck with Kobe and [insert star here]'s long and big contracts and would have no flexibility with trades.
Dallas is a joke, Kobe and Jermaine would be able to contend with them easy, and probably Phoenix, as well. Kobe has every right to be pissed at management for passing up Artest, Kidd, Boozer, Baron. I'm sure Tmac and the Magic didn't have opportunities at those players.
<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dallas is a joke, Kobe and Jermaine would be able to contend with them easy, and probably Phoenix, as well. Kobe has every right to be pissed at management for passing up Artest, Kidd, Boozer, Baron. I'm sure Tmac and the Magic didn't have opportunities at those players.</div> Whatever you say man. Assuming Phoenix and Dallas stay about the same as last year or improve they won't lose in a 7 game series to the Lakers with just Kobe/JO. I would take the Jazz over the Lakers as well and of course San Antonio. Artest-Horrible attitude and the chance to explode at any time. Kidd-Old PG that only has probably 2-3 years left in him. I understand not trading your depth and your future for him. Boozer-He was considered one of the most overpaid players in the league. He had injury problems and had questions about his game. Baron-Big time injury problems and was considered a cancer in the Hornets locker room. Again I think that the rumors were just that rumors by the media and weren't really considered because the Lakers were ripping all of them off in all of them. The only one that I somewhat believe is the Jason Kidd one. All were disgruntled stars with huge contracts(other than Artest) that would have essentially screwed the Lakers if they didn't work out and the risk of all of them were extremely high. I don't blame them for not doing any of the deals. In hindsight it looks bad, but considering the situation I don't think that them passing on those deals is that bad.
People have been saying the same crap about Kidd for 3 years now, he's old blah blah blah. He hasn't fallen off that much, he's still the second best PG in the league. You trade an unproven schmuck like Bynum for that. I think Kobe's got a lot more inside information than the media does, he stated that we had a shot at these players and the organization NEVER denied it after he made it public. Therefore, I got to go with that. I don't care what kind of cancer Artest could've been, if you're Laker management and you know your fans, the media, and how L.A. needs to be a top team every year, you take that gamble. It's a low risk, high reward situation. Dallas is weak up front, Jermaine would wreak havoc on them. Kobe already owns the Mavericks, they're not a good post season team, I'd take a Kobe, Walton, Jermaine trio over Dallas in 6 games, possibly 5. And if we can somehow keep Lamar if the Jermaine trade goes down, I'm taking the Lakes all the way in that game. Against Phx, all you've got to do is slow the tempo down. Thatt's how we've beat them every time, slow the tempo down. That is much easier to do when you've got a post presence like Jermaine. Against San Antonio, we're raped. And taking Utah over us, I find that to be a joke, as well. If I remember correctly, we beat them in the season series 2-1, the one loss coming in Utah.
What lineup? It's not possible to form a lineup because the Lakers have already stated that they aren't going to give up Bynum and Odom together along with the 19th AND Kwame. That is all of our valuable trade assetts, well...at least to every team outside of Houston who reportedly offered Luther Head for Brian Cook. I think if there is a deal that goes down that doesn't involve Kobe leaving L.A, it's going to be Bynum, Kwame, the 19th, and Sasha Vujacic for Jermaine O'neal. Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Mihm/ FA I'd like to use the MLE on a starting PG, most likely Blake. Blake/Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom//Walton/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Mihm/FA Then I'd like to turn around and push for Brendan Haywood, who I think would be a very serviceable center in a half court set. Something like a pick and a decent player for Haywood (that's all he's worth at this point, Washington needs him gone. Blake/Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom/Walton/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Haywood/Mihm. Now, is that all likely? Probably not, but I think that is a very simple lineup that can be somewhat effective in the west, it gives us an outside shot at contending. But back to answer your question simply, there is no lineup that we'd put out there because the Lakers refuse to give up both Odom and Bynum for Jermaine, it's one or the other which is why the talks have stalled. Indiana is mulling their options and trying to field other offers for Jermaine, which apparently aren't coming in that well. I still expect Jermaine to be a Laker draft night, if Kobe isn't traded.
<div class="quote_poster">GatorsowntheNCAA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Give me a break on the whole he got lied to speech. Every star gets told that they will try to get people to compete. Not every star gets lucky enough to compete for a championship. </div> While I do agree with that, I think Kobe is more mad about the fact that the Lakers did not trade for other PROVEN players when they could have (Boozer, Kidd especially) them. Instead, the organization chose to invest thier belief in Bynum. Bynum is not going to blossom into what the management expects until Kobe is past his prime, and that's essentially where Kobe feels cheated because they're keeping him from having help when they COULD by planning for the future (which they said they wouldn't do for the time being). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> In hindsight their moves aren't that great, but they are still trying. </div> What moves have they made exactly? They've wasted the MLE 3 years straight now and haven't pulled the trigger on any significant trades following Kwame-for-Caron. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just don't see why out of all the superstars in the NBA, Kobe is the one entitled to be on a contending team when he makes nearly 2/5ths of his teams cap. Does he realize that they can't do much with him making $20 mil a season and pretty much no trade bait? </div> I agree with this. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Their best move is to build for the future and deal Kobe, because they likely won't be able to get enough talent around Kobe to win a championship with the little trade bait that they have and in turn would set the organization back several years after Kobe is gone or gets out of his prime. They wouldn't be able to rebuild and would be stuck with Kobe and [insert star here]'s long and big contracts and would have no flexibility with trades.</div> Agree with this as well. The Lakers are going to get screwed over and set back if they don't trade for Kobe. I hope Cupcake is smarter than Mchale and deals Kobe sooner rather than later. I seriously don't think the Lakers will make the playoffs next year if the same roster that suited up last season is back. Kobe and Phil Jackson be damned, the Lakers' roster is not very good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dallas is a joke, Kobe and Jermaine would be able to contend with them easy, and probably Phoenix, as well.</div> lol, Dallas is a joke? They were a 67 win team, who just happened to face the ONE team that has thier number, and happend to be coached by thier former coach. I would take Dallas in a 7 game series against the Lakers rather easily, JO or not. As good as you might think that tandem is, the Mavs have way too many weapons for the Lakers to contend with. Phoenix's championship window hasn't closed yet. They still have 1-2 years left of contention with Nash riding out his career. If things go Phoenix's way, they could land a potential star in thier hands over this off-season, only making them stronger. I don't think you realize how hungry that Suns team is, especially Amare. Don't let the bias fool you, the Suns are a really deep, experienced and balanced team. The Lakers are not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Dallas is weak up front, Jermaine would wreak havoc on them. Kobe already owns the Mavericks, they're not a good post season team, I'd take a Kobe, Walton, Jermaine trio over Dallas in 6 games, possibly 5. And if we can somehow keep Lamar if the Jermaine trade goes down, I'm taking the Lakes all the way in that game. </div> Not counting this year when they faced a team that has thier number, the Mavs made it to the NBA Finals (going through the WESTERN conference) in 2006, and lost in 6 to the Pheonix Suns in 2005. I still think Dallas is a dangerous team and they are going to be MUCH, MUCH hungrier next season, making them all the more dangerous. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Against Phx, all you've got to do is slow the tempo down. Thatt's how we've beat them every time, slow the tempo down. That is much easier to do when you've got a post presence like Jermaine.</div> lol, if it was that easy to do, Phoenix wouldn't be one of the most feared teams in the league. Good luck slowing down Barbosa, Amare, Nash, Bell, Diaw, Marion (or whoever he becomes traded for) and James Jones. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Against San Antonio, we're raped. And taking Utah over us, I find that to be a joke, as well. If I remember correctly, we beat them in the season series 2-1, the one loss coming in Utah.</div> Why is that a joke? The Jazz made it to the WCF and lost to the eventual champions. The Lakers couldn't get past the first round. I realize Jermaine O'Neal is a significant accquisition but you're speaking of him like he's Larry Bird or Hakeem or some legendary player in his prime. Boozer would give him hell, and Deron Williams would abuse our perimeter defense. Since when does season series matter anyway?
<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">People have been saying the same crap about Kidd for 3 years now, he's old blah blah blah. He hasn't fallen off that much, he's still the second best PG in the league. You trade an unproven schmuck like Bynum for that.</div> I agree that Kidd is one of the best PG's still in the game today, but would you rather have jumped the gun to get Jason Kidd or waited and get Jermaine O Neal? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Kobe's got a lot more inside information than the media does, he stated that we had a shot at these players and the organization NEVER denied it after he made it public. Therefore, I got to go with that. I don't care what kind of cancer Artest could've been, if you're Laker management and you know your fans, the media, and how L.A. needs to be a top team every year, you take that gamble. It's a low risk, high reward situation.</div> Anything regarding Ron Artest is an ultra high risk. His contract money wise and length make it a little easier to assume the risk, but he could blow up at any time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dallas is weak up front, Jermaine would wreak havoc on them. Kobe already owns the Mavericks, they're not a good post season team, I'd take a Kobe, Walton, Jermaine trio over Dallas in 6 games, possibly 5. And if we can somehow keep Lamar if the Jermaine trade goes down, I'm taking the Lakes all the way in that game.</div> You do realize that Dallas made the finals 2 years ago while beating this Spurs dynasty team in Game 7 in San Antonio right? They have made it out of the first round in 2 out of the last 3 seasons and this season just had a tough match up. They are weak scoring at the 5 position, but Dampier/Diop provide them with very good defense. The combo of Dirk and Dampier/Diop is actually pretty good and IMO would be better than the combo of JO and Mihm/Kwame. Unless you get homecourt(which considering how Dallas plays during the regular season doesn't seem likely) there is absolutely no way you beat them in 5 games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Against Phx, all you've got to do is slow the tempo down. That's how we've beat them every time, slow the tempo down. That is much easier to do when you've got a post presence like Jermaine.</div> You tend to play them pretty good. A guy like Jermaine would certainly help you in your quest to beat them and you very well could. They were my only real iffy team out of the top 3. Of course if they get rid of Marion or Amare this offseason like the rumors you guys should be able to beat them. Against San Antonio, we're raped. And taking Utah over us, I find that to be a joke, as well. If I remember correctly, we beat them in the season series 2-1, the one loss coming in Utah.[/QUOTE] San Antonio yes, you get killed. Utah was the 3rd best team this postseason, IMO and they have plenty of young talent. With Deron Williams maturing and just completely owning the Finals MVP in their series they will be a very very very tough team to compete against, especially with bigs like Boozer/Okur. They are one of my "surprise" championship contenders for next year. <div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What lineup? It's not possible to form a lineup because the Lakers have already stated that they aren't going to give up Bynum and Odom together along with the 19th AND Kwame. That is all of our valuable trade assetts, well...at least to every team outside of Houston who reportedly offered Luther Head for Brian Cook. I think if there is a deal that goes down that doesn't involve Kobe leaving L.A, it's going to be Bynum, Kwame, the 19th, and Sasha Vujacic for Jermaine O'neal. Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Mihm/ FA I'd like to use the MLE on a starting PG, most likely Blake. Blake/Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom//Walton/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Mihm/FA Then I'd like to turn around and push for Brendan Haywood, who I think would be a very serviceable center in a half court set. Something like a pick and a decent player for Haywood (that's all he's worth at this point, Washington needs him gone. Blake/Head/Farmar Kobe/Evans Odom/Walton/Vlad Jermaine/Turiaf Haywood/Mihm. Now, is that all likely? Probably not, but I think that is a very simple lineup that can be somewhat effective in the west, it gives us an outside shot at contending. But back to answer your question simply, there is no lineup that we'd put out there because the Lakers refuse to give up both Odom and Bynum for Jermaine, it's one or the other which is why the talks have stalled. Indiana is mulling their options and trying to field other offers for Jermaine, which apparently aren't coming in that well. I still expect Jermaine to be a Laker draft night, if Kobe isn't traded.</div> I still doubt you get Luther Head for Brian freaking Cook. Also your proposed JO trade doesn't really come close to making it work salary cap wise. You would need something like 4 more million to be included. That is only 13 mil in salary while Jermaine will be making 19.7 which doesn't work in the 115% trade clause. The only real options are Brian Cook+Maurice Evans or Vlad. At worst you have to get 17.13 mil. Which is why either the Pacers will have to either get both or at least get the #19 pick for taking either Vlad or Brian Cook or it's not likely to work without Odom in the mix. That would leave you with basically Luke Walton and Lamar Odom as trade bait, so I really really really really hope that JO/Kobe/Odom works out for you, because if it doesn't you guys are screwed.
