Yeah but if Warriors get Yi thats automatically liek a billion Yi T shirts.lol very good business move if they do this. I just hope Mullin doesnt sellout and get rid of Ellis. Unless these rumors of Ellis being a dicipline problem are true. Man history repeats itself. Warriros PG Gilbert Arenas wins MIP and moves on to be an allstar. Warriros PG Monta Ellis wins MIP and moves on to be an ......
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I pretty much agree with custodianrules2. Monta Ellis is the deflector player on defense. He is one of the few players who can attack the rim on this team. If anything it seems as if Chris Mullin is always searching what's available. That is good. I just hope he doesn't do anything stupid (i.e. from the past hiring Mike Montgomery and the Foyle contract along with the Dunleavy and Murphy contracts). The only player I would trade Ellis for is an allstar such as KG. Trading Ellis to get position for Yi or Horford I say no to. But it's not my decision to make. So I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what happens with all of this.</div> Don't forget signing Fisher was tremendously stupid if Mullin knew he was going to lose Dampier anyway. We didn't have any big man remotely capable of packing at least an average low-post game to get the ball inside to. So I didn't see any point to signing Fisher unless he was a cheap placeholder who could offer veteran stability in the lockerroom and some nice post season presence should we ever make the playoffs. I bet 10-1 he would be way better than Ellis postseason and Al Harrington postseason combined when he's being used right. Boogielew can bash the guy, but he's good on the right team... Just not our team. Then there's also the fact, nobody else in the backcourt or wing can drive and dish so Fisher's limitations get even more exposed as a ballhandler and decision-maker. On the Lakers, he was there for Kobe and Shaq's benefit because those two could pass from the double team or the kickout pass. We couldn't even move the ball if Foyle couldn't catch, pass, or score to warrant the opposing team's defensive attention. Plus Murphy, Dunleavy, Richardson are also too slow to do anything about creating their own shot through traffic and running the team. Not one player affected the other team's defense much other than to shoot and shoot and try to run in transition. Out of the following three players (Dun, Murphy and Richardson), the Black guy who started out as a high school power forward and later played for Izzo's Michigan State (and whose name is Jason Richardson) managed to play a better guard!
<div class="quote_poster">The Walrus Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> very good business move if they do this. I just hope Mullin doesnt sellout and get rid of Ellis. Unless these rumors of Ellis being a dicipline problem are true. Man history repeats itself. Warriros PG Gilbert Arenas wins MIP and moves on to be an allstar. Warriros PG Monta Ellis wins MIP and moves on to be an ......</div> Both were second rounders, too Arenas never played behind an all-star, franchise type guy, though. There's no doubt that if we lose Baron for over 20 games or more, we're done already. Baron is that good of a playmaker he just magnifies everyone else's games... especially big men if we had more of them.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Both were second rounders, too Arenas never played behind an all-star, franchise type guy, though. There's no doubt that if we lose Baron for over 20 games or more, we're done already. Baron is that good of a playmaker he just magnifies everyone else's games... especially big men if we had more of them.</div> This is why I think the Warriors biggest need is back up PF. Baron Davis got worn out in the playoffs once the team got to the second round. He was used extensively throughout last season besides a small period of being inactive because of an injury, where Ellis actually stepped up and did quite well. I'll always lean toward taking the BAP, but if it gets tough to see which prospect is better I'd probably lean toward getting a PG. I'd like to see the team pick up Koponen or Brooks. I have also read that the Sonics are open to trading Luke Ridnour for a first round pick. Well the rumor was Luke for the #11 pick. If Don Nelson wanted Luke above anybody else available then I wouldn't mind seeing a trade of Sarunas and #18 for Luke Ridnour. I am not sure if that works perfectly cap wise, but I think it comes close. Anyway this draft is deep and there seems to be plenty of teams wanting to make some moves with their draft positions. It should be an intriguing day.
I don't think Ellis is ever going to be a premiere starting PG in the NBA. He has suspect handles and only so-so court vision, which are things that are probably not correctable by working on them in practice. He can be an acceptable backup point guard. As a shooting guard he's intriguing because of his speed, however he is undersized for this position and has yet to prove he has a reliable outside shot. Also, his attacking the rim became somewhat less effective towards the end of the year. Whether that's because the season tired him out, or defenders wised up to his moves (like Elton Brand learned to wait for him at the rim instead of lunging at him as he drives), or because he was being asked to play a role that didn't require him to be as aggressive in this manner I don't know. What is his role? He makes a good energizer 6th man off the bench but I don't think the Warriors can afford to pay him for this role -- other teams will offer more and allow him to be a starter. So I'm torn on Ellis. His trade value is high right now, will it be higher? But, trading Monta to move up for Yi seems like a waste to me. I think he's worth more than that. Plus, let's not forget that Yi is a project. Why on earth would Nelson want to take on a project who could take years to develop when it's iffy if Nelson will even be here two years from now? I'd be much more comfortable with a strong push for KG, even if it costs a lot more than Monta (which it will).
<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why on earth would Nelson want to take on a project who could take years to develop when it's iffy if Nelson will even be here two years from now? I'd be much more comfortable with a strong push for KG, even if it costs a lot more than Monta (which it will).</div> agreed. i think that the hawks should have to give up more than that for monta. i'm real curious to see what happens tomorrow. it has the potential to be nuckin futs.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Seems like theres a couple of rumors from different places saying that Nellie and Mullin have soured on Ellis because of his attitude or behavior. Seems contradictory of what we know of him but it could be a possibility. Also like Kwan said we can't re-sign Biedrins and Ellis, might as well cash in now if it gives us a shot at a good big man and by the time his rookie contract is up we'll have some of our bigger contracts coming off the books.</div> Source please?
Every draft pick is a roll of the dice. We rolled the dice with Ellis, and came up big. Why oh why would we trade him now, along with our #18 roll of the dice, for someone else's #8 roll of the dice? We have a winner. We don't need to roll the dice again. Makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense to me I'll be PISSED OFF if they trade Monta for anything less than in a package for a top 2 pick or in a package for a star PF like KG, JO, etc. If they trade Monta for a fukin draft pick, they're stupid
I've been on vacation and there are already so many rumors!! As much as I like Yi Yi Yi in the Bay i can't imagine giving up ellis or even Jrich. I dont like the idea of breaking up this team at all, unless its Peitrus or Foyle. Who knows Nelly is always good at drafting unknown or unseen players like Sprewell when no one knew about him at all. I just can't wait until tomorrow!
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Source please?</div> After a short search I can't find the links again (someone else said they heard the same thing though). I remember rotowire for sure saying that they caught wind of Ellis falling out of favor with the front office but it was via some other source. Also some random guy on RealGM was talking about it (allegedly has sources within an NBA franchise). But like I said you have to take it with a grain of salt, I was just mentioning it as a possible explanation to why we would offer Ellis when you would assume that he'd be an untouchable asset. Giving up Ellis for Yi (or whoever it is we take) would make me very nervous but I'm actually not really against the idea. We can all dream about getting KG, JO, or whoever is allegedly available on the trade market but the fact is no teams are going to give us their all-star or all-NBA, franchise big men for whatever we have to offer. The only way we can get one of our own is to draft and develop one ourselves. The obvious flaw to this is trading a known commodity for a project, "high potential" guy but after years of sucking ass and having no big man its time to take a risk IMO and trade off some of our assets for the chance to get a stud big man. I love Ellis but hes due for a big extension and we can't afford to pay him and Biedrins. We're already stacked with guards and Ellis has tons of trade value and a very cheap contract. This is a draft where there are multiple potential franchise big men available at picks that we can actually trade up for (5-8). Nellie and Mullin have proven to be pretty good in the draft. IMO everything is set up and if we're going to take a risk to get the big man the time is now, or else we can keep on competing for the 8th seed of the POs for several years and pray that the stars align and we land a KG, or Bosh or maybe we're hoping we can trade the farm for a Yi, B. Wright, etc. 5 years down the road after they've proven to be a stud. Of course, you run the risk of looking like an idiot and losing your job if you're Mullin. Perhaps you trade a future all-star guard for a complete bust. But on the other hand you could be trading an all-star NBA guard for a franchise big man. Or you could be hoping that 5 years down the road your all-star combo guard can land you what you really need, a franchise big that you could have gotten 5 years earlier. Its risky as hell but I would support Mullin and Nellie if they risked losing a great young combo guard to potentially get that franchise big man we've been lacking since Webber left. Maybe I'm just crazy but I'm sick of waiting for KG, JO, etc. allegedly being traded. We need to get that guy ourselves when hes available to us. If Mullin and Nellie think the guy they're trading up for is the future of the franchise, I'd support them and have faith in their decision.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And then I remember we drafted Dunleavy with #3</div> Different GM, completely different draft.
Oh, I wasn't trying to refute your reasoning -- I understand where you're coming from -- I was just remembering how we had a top pick and took a forward who pretty much made Jamison "expendable" in the eyes of many, then Dun turned out to be a flop player who we couldn't wait to get rid of. My point is that, even though this draft has a lot of good talent at the Forward/Center positions, you still never know what you're going to get. I know you have to take risks, and the gamble may payoff if Yi becomes a franchise guy (assuming we get Yi), but I just don't think giving up Monta just to move up is worth it, considering Monta was a gem in the rough that we uncovered through the draft. I'd rather put my money on him than on re-rolling the dice. But I do see where you're coming from BJM
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This is why I think the Warriors biggest need is back up PF. Baron Davis got worn out in the playoffs once the team got to the second round. He was used extensively throughout last season besides a small period of being inactive because of an injury, where Ellis actually stepped up and did quite well. I'll always lean toward taking the BAP, but if it gets tough to see which prospect is better I'd probably lean toward getting a PG. I'd like to see the team pick up Koponen or Brooks. I have also read that the Sonics are open to trading Luke Ridnour for a first round pick. Well the rumor was Luke for the #11 pick. If Don Nelson wanted Luke above anybody else available then I wouldn't mind seeing a trade of Sarunas and #18 for Luke Ridnour. I am not sure if that works perfectly cap wise, but I think it comes close. Anyway this draft is deep and there seems to be plenty of teams wanting to make some moves with their draft positions. It should be an intriguing day.</div> I think we desperately need any size we can get. If we're going backup power forward, we might as well take Josh McRoberts. The way I see it is he couldn't be any worse than some of the other decently athletic power forwards out there. He's 6'10, has good use of either hand, can shoot decently, can probably play more effectively if playing under a different system maybe? I'm not sure, but there's some potential there, it's just a matter of unlocking it. So I argue why not just take Roberts if we feel Sean Williams is too much of a problem child? If we feel McRoberts is going to be a bust for sure (in Duke hype tradition), how about Jason Smith? At first I didn't like the guy, but I realize he does a lot of things that few 7 footers do well, even if in a weak conference. Just goes to show how few athletic 7 footers there are in the first place. So I'm still leaning towards either of Jason Smith, Tiago Splitter, or Josh McRoberts or a swingman. In terms of point guards, maybe we can try again with Cabbages and try to hold on to Ellis?
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think we desperately need any size we can get.</div> Well we saw how much Josh Powell played last season and even in the playoffs against the Jazz when the team needed rebounding and size. We even saw how much Adonal Foyle has played. Don Nelson doesn't play just any PF (though I don't really mean to imply this for McRoberts since he may have a chance of fitting in with Nelson). I think a back up PG would get much more PT and have a much bigger impact on this team than anyone else. This team stunk, especially in the playoffs, when Baron Davis left the court. I don't think this team can ride on his shoulders as long as they did last season. Also Monta is a bit fragile as well which doesn't completely help stabilize that position. Though Rudy isn't a pure PG he has experience carrying teams and winning, and I wouldn't mind seeing him on the Warriors - though I could say this about many prospects in this draft. As far as Monta Ellis: I don't know how he could have started to be seen as trouble by the Warriors. Hopefully Chris Mullin isn't drinking too much and Don Nelson smoking too much. Although perhaps this source has seen Mullin propose several trades with Ellis involved which has made him get this conclusion. I could see Mullin seeing what Ellis' value is. However in my vision it is the same reason why he could be trying to gage what JRich's value is, because maybe he and the Warriors don't have faith that the two can co-exist and even more importantly they don't want to be so financially handy-capped. I mean wasn't Chris Cohan just recently sued or something where he has or could lose lots of money? This could perhaps just be a financial move. However as a Warriors fan I'd hate to see anything of the like. There's been way too much of this over the years, and very recent years at that.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Different GM, completely different draft.</div> who are these franchise big men? I dont see anyone that isnt in the top three that i would call franchise actually top2 Alley .....we are back on the same page.....again i 100% agree with you.....trading Monta is ridiculously stupid for any pick that isnt the top 2 or for a major true franchise guy...... j o , kg.....brand
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It would be Ellis & the 18th pick for the #8 pick.</div> If the Warrior's management is that dumb,we'd better start thinking about who we take in the lotto the next few years. The W's history is full of ill considered shortcuts and wild guesses of trading a bird in the hand for one in the bush...or one scraped off the pavement. In this draft....the late first and early second is where the value is. It's an ego trap to think you see hidden magic in some kid who just had a 12 pt a game season or an import who's competition was about the equal of a low level college team. Meanwhile.....guys who got 20+ points...or 9 + boards are apparantly cheap in rd 2. Actually PLAYING WELL in college must be the kiss of death. Monta is a lock to be a guy scoring 20 + for most of the next 10 years. At 18 we have a decent shot at Jason Smith. He may turn out better than Yi. So might Fazekas,who unlike Yi can score well in a crowd or from 3...and is a great rebounder. Smith showed up at the combine and his speed-agility rivaled many SG/SF prospects--but he's also a 10 rbd guy who's started 3 seasons. Later,Stephane Lasme's Shotblocking anfd rebounding are EXCELLENT whether you are talking lotto or rd 2. Morris Almond is a slightly taller Michael Redd,a guy who's my pick to be the top scoring rookie after Durant. Herbert Hill had better numbers than most of the lotto favorites-and did so in the Big East....so he's a rd 2? One dumbass rumor has us offering Biedrins and 18 to move up. If that happened...I'd just give up on this cursed franchise. We'd be drafting Todd Fuller/Chris Washburn/Russell Cross/Vic Alexander types for the next decade desperately trying to find a replacement.
Unless McRoberts slims down to SF size,he's seriously lacking speed and quickness. That's part of why he scored 12 per when he was supposed to be Dukes ace,and why half the ACC got a win or two vs Duke.. McRoberts is not as mobile/quick as Fazekas,and not close to Smith who's pretty explosive. Actually-aside from passing-there's little in McRoberts that's any better than the mid rd 2 guys. Herbert Hill,seen as a high rd 2 is far ahead of McRoberts in pretty much all areas and Hillhas the momentum of being a guy who improved a LOT-while McRoberts is a guy who'd have been drafted much higher out of high school. That Yi's handlers have made an extreme effort to NOT let anyone get much of a handle on what he can do vs any player of draftable quality ought to sound alarms. They likely are even lying about his age. If this dude is so good-why all the smoke and mirrors? If I was trading up to 8 ( J Rich) it would be to get Noah,a fat trade exception and to get a big chunk of instant cap relief. If I'm trading Monta-it's to get Josh Smith.
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">One dumbass rumor has us offering Biedrins and 18 to move up. If that happened...I'd just give up on this cursed franchise.</div>I don't think there's much chance of that, probably a rumor started by a wishful fan of another team. Mullin has consistently rebuffed trade offers involving Biedrins, trading him for Yi would make no sense at all.
As for "Franchise Big Men" really folks,after #2 there's the Chinese Peja - who unfortunately lacks Peja's 3 and so is a jump shooter from 18 ft. There's B Wright a "Power F" who's 205 lb....20 less than J Rich. Horford,Noah and Wright seem to have game---yet none managed to top 14 pt a game...which still would not rank in the NCAA top 100. Aside from Durant....the big rebound guys are Fazekas, G Davis,J Smith....any of whom may be there at 18 or later. 20 pt scorers would feature Stuckey,Almond,Fazekas. Only stuckey is apt to be gone at 18. Shotblocks? Stephane Lasme,Dominic McGuire and Herbert Hill each had better than 3+ a game. Lasme had 4 games of +10 shotblocks. Noah and B Wright get some credit as shotblockers---yet were below 2 per game. I see a draft full of the Next Martell Webster up top while the Paul Millsap,Gilbert Arenas guys are waiting for a rd 2 call. The trend to imagining stuff with little evidence yet overlooking documented achievement has swung to an extreme. It's as if getting invited to the McDonald HS game is all it takes to be lotto-and actually PERFORMING in real college games is of no significance. How many touted mid size Euros with their 15 pt scoring (yet alleged GREAT shooters) really made it in the NBA?
