I predict that Mullin will not pull the trigger on any major deals. The only way he makes a move is if he suckers someone into taking Foyle. Otherwise, the trade deadline will be the active moment.
If I was a gambling man thats what I'd put my money on. Its not often you see teams moving up from 18 all the way to top 10 despite how many rumors you hear leading up to the draft.
I'll go out on a basketball limb here and say we'll make a move. There's certain figures in the roster that I think Nelson will want out. Let's say cabbages is out and we convert him into a 2nd rounder with our very own into a late first round pick. Also, let's say if POB or Harrington is on the block or our very own Ellis. It could always happen if the price is right. Scoring is very important to this small club, but to get that scoring we need guys that make everyone around them better. We gotta figure out who those guys are and who isn't. We probably can't get such a guy late, late in the draft, but we can find ourselves a cheap role player that's a cut above any of the second rounders. I bet there's a few interesting players we could take with an extra late first rounder like Morris Almond or Alando Tucker. I don't think we'll move up if Yi ain't at a reasonable slot, but we could very well move down and get guys we don't have to worry about extending money to.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think we'll move up if Yi ain't at a reasonable slot, but we could very well move down and get guys we don't have to worry about extending money to.</div> FWIW, Chad Fraud says that he thinks Charlotte is trading the 8 pick and the Warriors have offered Monta if Yi is there. He thinks thats a good deal for Charlotte. Outside of that possibility I don't think we'll move at all. Its on insider though so I can't get the exact text right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">FWIW, Chad Fraud says that he thinks Charlotte is trading the 8 pick and the Warriors have offered Monta if Yi is there. He thinks thats a good deal for Charlotte. Outside of that possibility I don't think we'll move at all. Its on insider though so I can't get the exact text right now.</div> Wow, thanks for the rumor. I think that deal is reasonable if we know that ownership will not re-sign Ellis (for the possible max deal he could get) when he's playing next to or behind Baron Davis. I'd want to keep Ellis, but I feel like if ownership can't extend him because they can't afford it, might as well get a player that we wanted all along. An athletic power forward that could be groomed to be the next Pau Gasol. Who knows... High risk, high reward situation IMO. But there's greater risk if three members in our backcourt have max or near max deals... There's just not enough cash to distribute amongst the team so we can have a competitive front court and middle plus a productive and playoff experienced bench. As it is, we probably have to find really cheap MLE talent and use rookie scale contracts to ride out the bloat. Foyle is severely hampering this team's payroll and so is Harrington to some extent.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, thanks for the rumor. I think that deal is reasonable if we know that ownership will not re-sign Ellis (for the possible max deal he could get) when he's playing next to or behind Baron Davis. I'd want to keep Ellis, but I feel like if ownership can't extend him because they can't afford it, might as well get a player that we wanted all along. An athletic power forward that could be groomed to be the next Pau Gasol. Who knows... High risk, high reward situation IMO. But there's greater risk if three members in our backcourt have max or near max deals... There's just not enough cash to distribute amongst the team so we can have a competitive front court and middle plus a productive and playoff experienced bench. As it is, we probably have to find really cheap MLE talent and use rookie scale contracts to ride out the bloat. Foyle is severely hampering this team's payroll and so is Harrington to some extent.</div> Yeah thats why I think its reasonable. We're taking a risk but theoretically Ellis is going to be gone one way or another in the next year or two, right now he got great trade value and a cheap contract. Its high risk but right now we could get that high risk, high reward big man for him. By the time that guy is up for a nice fat contract most of our long term deals will have expired. Imagine if we still had Murphleavy, who were getting paid more and had longer contracts while producing less.
If Yi is there, then fine, trade Ellis, but I dont want to trade for a spot when there is no guarantee the player we want will even be there. I still will be sad to see Yi go, but best case scenario is Ellis turns into Iverson and Yi turns into Dirk or McGrady in which either case I will be happy. But if Ellis turns into Arenas and we get stuck with another DunMurphy I will be pissed. I like how Yi sounds because he is an athletic big man instead of a slow big man. And when it comes down to it, a 7 footer should rebound better than a 6 footer. And that is what we need right now. Personally, I would rather trade Bean than Ellis based off potential alone...
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah thats why I think its reasonable. We're taking a risk but theoretically Ellis is going to be gone one way or another in the next year or two, right now he got great trade value and a cheap contract. Its high risk but right now we could get that high risk, high reward big man for him. By the time that guy is up for a nice fat contract most of our long term deals will have expired. Imagine if we still had Murphleavy, who were getting paid more and had longer contracts while producing less.</div> Yeah, I'm glad we don't have Murphleavy... ugg... still can't believe how Mullin got Bird and Walsh to bite on that pump fake of a trade. LOL. All it took was Ike Diogu, which was pretty impressive. I'll miss Diogu, but it was clear that Nelson just doesn't like to work with traditional big men unless they just do the dirty work and nothing else. I'm impressed with how Mullin and staff just saved their own jobs along with the help of his friend (and early mentor) coach Nelson. That 8th seed seemed so unobtainable... As it is, we still could be barely a playoff team with the way the Western Conference landscape is and how our focal point on offense relies primarily on a semi-healthy Baron Davis. We're kind of at a crossroads... we don't want to make moves that only benefit us in the short term and we don't want to make moves where we lose the window of opportunity to keep on improving in the long term. We don't want to arrive at the impasse of waiting and waiting to find that big man star that never arrives. We want to be that team that keeps getting richer and richer because everyone wants to play for a winner with guys who can take care of business.
Something to chew on, if Cohan were to have to pay the luxury tax for a year, it would likely only be that. Foyle's contract comes off the books in 2 years. If a perfect trade doesn't come about this offseason, next year Foyle becomes a commodity for teams looking to shed salary the following season.
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If Yi is there, then fine, trade Ellis, but I dont want to trade for a spot when there is no guarantee the player we want will even be there. I still will be sad to see Yi go, but best case scenario is Ellis turns into Iverson and Yi turns into Dirk or McGrady in which either case I will be happy. But if Ellis turns into Arenas and we get stuck with another DunMurphy I will be pissed. I like how Yi sounds because he is an athletic big man instead of a slow big man. And when it comes down to it, a 7 footer should rebound better than a 6 footer. And that is what we need right now. Personally, I would rather trade Bean than Ellis based off potential alone...</div> Trading Beans?? Ah man no way. I think if he got more touches and responsbility to score in the low post, he could easily get 15/10 the way a traditional post player should and that potential is a high commodity in the league IMO (much more than Ellis' potential). He would still be effective on defense in ways that Foyle nor Murphy could not emulate due to slowness or bad balance/recovery. The question is... can Biedrins get stronger to the point where he's a top post defender. I'm hoping either Dale Davis, Kurt Thomas, or motivated Erick Dampier level where he could force travels or poke the ball away. But you're right, Biedrins isn't looking too hot when he gets overpowered and worn down. He starts losing his sharpness and isn't as crafty defensively. I get sore for like three days after playing ball and Beans has to play every other night or on back to backs. Freakin' hard for a guy that big and underweight for center. It's hard to stay in it, but I think he can do it this year. Now if we had Yi and Beans together that would be an interesting lineup. Baron would run the show like normal. Sjax and Richardson play the SG/SF spots. Harrington would be the utility guy. For point guard we'd have to dig up somebody like Dajuan Wagner again or find a guy that has awesome quicks. What about Marcus Banks? I'm not saying any of these guys are better than Ellis, but they could thrive in Nelson's lineup as undersized twos. I don't know if a pure point guard is the answer for Nelson unless that guy can also score a lot inside/out.
I don't get the sudden talk that there's no way to keep both Monta and Beans. Technically, GS will have ways to keep both, especially if they can move a heavy contract or convince Cohan to go over tax. I think it's absurd that GS would trade Monta to move up a few slots in a DRAFT (when draft picks are never a sure thing) and justify it simply by saying they wouldn't be able to keep him anyway.
All it took was Ike Diogu, which was pretty impressive. I'll miss Diogu, but it was clear that Nelson just doesn't like to work with traditional big men unless they just do the dirty work and nothing else. According to DraftExpress - "Houston is exploring a few trades, with the most interesting rumor being swapping their #26 pick for Ike Diogu and filler." Custodian, would you trade #18 for Diogu? Has he already worn out his welcome in Indy?
<div class="quote_poster">bayareafan85 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All it took was Ike Diogu, which was pretty impressive. I'll miss Diogu, but it was clear that Nelson just doesn't like to work with traditional big men unless they just do the dirty work and nothing else. According to DraftExpress - "Houston is exploring a few trades, with the most interesting rumor being swapping their #26 pick for Ike Diogu and filler." Custodian, would you trade #18 for Diogu? Has he already worn out his welcome in Indy?</div> Ike Diogu at #18 is still good in my book. I don't think he was given a chance to produce and work on his game in the nba for Don Nelson or Mike Montgomery and certainly not the Indy coach. I think under the right coach he could be one of the better undersized power forwards in the league because he doesn't have a weight problem like Sean May and Mike Sweetney do. Ike was injured a bit too and that hindered his performances. I'd definitely take him over Josh McRoberts or some of these other questionables like Thad Young who are more like bad tweeners or track athletes than refined out-of-college basketball players. But I feel if we don't take the upside, we'll lose out in the long run and miss out on the Tony Parkers, the Jermaine O'neils, the guys who suddenly came out of nowhere because they were in the right situation. So it is a gamble between going the safe route and getting something or gambling big and risk getting nothing. I feel like the high risk is worth it only if you have a backup plan in the form of other players surrounding that pick. In our case we have Baron, Jrich, Ellis, Beans, Sjax, AH who are all good as a single unit. Back to Diogu, I think he is very balanced in terms of ceiling and a floor. He's a can't miss contributor and he has a lot of inside fancy footwork that few other big men have and he can shoot free throws and hold his own in the post. He has a slow release on his 20 foot jumper, but he can hit it consistently at least. He's also a good high post passer, despite being a terrible passer out of double and triple teams. The point is he does attract double and triple teams because he's so slippery to guard if the defender is tall and lanky. Now if we take a guy like Pietrus or Thad Young, I'm not sure what we got and I'm sure most coaches aren't willing to wait to see what they have if they got Baron, Jrich, Sjax, Ellis, AH, and Beans to think about first. All I know is Thad Young at least better be able to do what Pietrus and Barnes have done to be able to get a whiff of the court in meaningful minutes. I think maybe he can, but it'll be a gamble to see if he can do it consistently enough against pro competition. It's either one believes or he doesn't. We'll have to see how the Warriors brass feels about their luck. On a change of subject, would anyone do this trade to move up? Boston trades: Paul Pierce Sebastian Telfair #5 2007 pick Oakland trades: Jason Richardson Patrick O'Bryant #18 2007 pick future first round pick I know it's tough for Jason, and we lose a center with potential that probably wouldn't develop under Nelson's program, but we either get our hands on Yi or Brandon Wright or Al Horford. Would Boston fans do it if the scenario was that Pierce was going to leave anyway? Or would they just stay the course and try to draft Wright or Horford or whoever falls to #5. Trading Jason would be a stab in the back and could set us back... it's very risky...
How about trading our second round picks to move up and grab a backup PG? This guy plays well on the open floor, has pretty good speed, handles and vision. He can definitely dish the ball. I'm not sure where this guy will go, but according to draftexpress, he'll go late first round. We are probably going to trade Cabbages because he's not a fit with Nellie. And I doubt Monta is ready to be a PG anytime soon. Besides, he's more in the mold of a combo guard like Ben Gordon (still needs an outside shot), but with better defense. Petteri Kaponen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6-5KvjXwrU If you want to keep the second round picks, there is Gabe Pruitt and Ramon Sessions.
Based on what Jason Richardson has done for this franchise (even with his own money too), I'd rather not trade him. Not this early in the game. I think it would be a huge curse for stabbing him in the back like that. I'd rather trade Ellis or Sjax out of respect for Richardson.
I'm leaning toward Jason Smith as the guy we will and should take at 18. I'd actually prefer the trade down if we can get 2 of the guys I like in the 20s. Watch for Herbert Hill,Lasme,or McGuire at 36..any would be grand larceny. Zabian Dowdell is a fine combo G.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Based on what Jason Richardson has done for this franchise (even with his own money too), I'd rather not trade him. Not this early in the game. I think it would be a huge curse for stabbing him in the back like that. I'd rather trade Ellis or Sjax out of respect for Richardson.</div> Very good point....also at some point we need to let the dust settle,let somebody stay here more than 2 yrs so we have a base identity,foundation for guys to attach to when the core keeps changing (coaches too) everything is a moving target and players are busy UN-Learning what's now obsolete.
I hope I'm wrong about the curse. And I was wrong: we didn't trade down we traded up... So much for playing it safe this year. It's on now with this crazy movement!
