Greatest Fear - KG - trading away the future

Just when you think the worst is over. IF the WArriors add KG to this offer. There goes the future. What fools they would be. But i guess it is for the here and now.

Whatcha all think?

Biedrins The Hold-Up In KG Trade?
July 1, 2007 - 1:17 pm
Los Angeles Times -
With Minnesota seeking prospects, the Warriors are now offering Brandan Wright, Monta Ellis and Patrick O'Bryant in exchange for Kevin Garnett.

Minnesota is asking for Andris Biedrins. Golden State is offering Al Harrington instead and may also insist that Garnett waive his $6.5-million trade kicker, so it's not done yet.




I like adding Harrington obviously. No way Bidriens. Why create Minny part 2 here.

C - foyle
F - Kg
sf - jackson
g - az
pg - davis


bench - powell, biellinni, sarunas


that doesnt work for me.... I say leave team just the way it is.... bring in some cheap free agents.

It is starting to look like we have a little leverage. I wouldnt even include Monta in an offer now. Wait em out.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives...up_in_kg_trade/

 

oops i meant if they ad AB

 

Yeah boogie, we share the same worries. My thing is this: if this were a young franchise stud like Dwight Howard, I'd have no problem, because he would be our franchise superman for the next 15 years.

However, it's different with KG, especially considering he is "threatening" to leave/opt out if he isn't happy with his future destination.

That means we could be trading away our future for ONE-- 111111111111111 -- ONE year of KG. He can opt out of his player option next year.

That means we make one run, and then next year, when everyone is poised to have fun in free agency and the draft, we have lost Beans, Ellis, and Branan Wright for NOTHING!?!?!?

No way do we give up both Ells/Beans AND Wright. That's crap. We do have to consider that trading wright is basically trading (JRich + #36) but we keep the cap relief. So if it were Ellis, Wright, POB and Harrington, that would technically be:

JRich, Ellis, POB, Harrington, and #36 for KG + cap relief. I can do that. But no way do I add Beans. Bullshit!

Although, now that we have the cap relief and Wright, why give it away? I am starting to not want KG, especially considering I've read that sources say he wants to play in Phoenix, not GS.

He'll just opt out next year and we'll be stuck watching the Ellis/Wright tandem explode onto the scene as the next Parker/Duncan duo That'll suck!

 

If we were to do any KG trade, I would have to assume he'd need to agree to an extension beyond one year first. It seems very likely Biedrins is in fact the holdup, it's pretty well documented that he is the guy McHale has been asking for for a long time, and the guy Mullin refuses to trade. That's not really news. I am rather surprised they'd be offering both Wright and Ellis so early in these negotiations, that is ominous to me. I would pull Wright off the table (Harrington, fine). And this article says we're not even getting rid of Foyle in the deal? No thanks!

 

<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Just when you think the worst is over. IF the WArriors add KG to this offer. There goes the future. What fools they would be. But i guess it is for the here and now.

Whatcha all think?

Biedrins The Hold-Up In KG Trade?
July 1, 2007 - 1:17 pm
Los Angeles Times -
With Minnesota seeking prospects, the Warriors are now offering Brandan Wright, Monta Ellis and Patrick O'Bryant in exchange for Kevin Garnett.

Minnesota is asking for Andris Biedrins. Golden State is offering Al Harrington instead and may also insist that Garnett waive his $6.5-million trade kicker, so it's not done yet.




I like adding Harrington obviously. No way Bidriens. Why create Minny part 2 here.

C - foyle
F - Kg
sf - jackson
g - az
pg - davis


bench - powell, biellinni, sarunas


that doesnt work for me.... I say leave team just the way it is.... bring in some cheap free agents.

It is starting to look like we have a little leverage. I wouldnt even include Monta in an offer now. Wait em out.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives...up_in_kg_trade/</div>

There are a few things that I don't understand like the 6.5 million dollar trade kicker. However this doesn't seem to even come close to working capwise. Or is it inferred that the TE is being used? Also what is a trade kicker?

Now since Jason Richardson is gone, I am much more relunctant to trade Monta Ellis. The Warriors may need to get Ricky Davis in return (for Foyle) to come close to satisfying this roster.

I think right now it is too early for this team to make such a big trade. Once this team can fill their roster with decent fillers then perhaps the team can trade so many players for one player. As boogie showed, the roster would be totally depleted after the trade right now.

 

Okay. If KG agrees to an extension prior to the trade, that makes more sense, though still questionable. But isn't that the Carlos Boozer thing? It can only be handshake -- right? Or can they put it in writing prior to the trade?

Argh... I'm not liking the way this is shaping up. If we lose Ellis, Beans and Wright plus the exemption somehow, for KG and possible Minny scrubs, and KG leaves and/or this team is basically what Minny has been and we barely sniff POs while Monta/Beans/Wright explode onto the scene that will suck.

I'd rather take our chances with the young pieces we have. Sheesh, Wright could become the poor-man's KG and we could hang onto Monta/Beans PLUS keep the exemption for something better down the road....

I want a long-term core, not a 1-n-done shot at POs...

 

I dont want KG. 2-3 years ago, maybe, but now I dont. He is getting too old. We have the leverage here, why are we giving away our roster? I for one want to see how Wright develops. The only people I would trade are Foyle, Jackson, Harrington and POB.

 

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap99.htm#83 for info on trade kickers. I don't even want to speculate on this. The reading doesn't bother me, I'm just not the surefire expert on this subject of trade rules regarding TK's. It's outside my scope!

But I do think I know why the Twolves never really got anywhere with a surefire franchise center piece like Garnett. 00I think one of the main reasons why the Twolves never really went anywhere was because the strength of the center position was weak and they had no good playmakers to run the team at the guard positions. If you think about the teams that do win championships, it's because of the backcourt and the strength of the center position. While forwards are helpful for providing mismatches on scoring, you typically need the kinds of smaller, faster guys that can pack a drive, shoot, pass type of threat and at least one big with a low post or mid post game who can control the rebounding and second chance points. The Twolves have lacked such players and very few guys played defense except for maybe two guys or three guys (Garnett, Trenton Hassell, Sprewell/Ricky Davis). All the centers that have come and gone played small and underachieving (Nesterovic, Olowakandi, Mark Blount) averaging l6 boards or less a game, some becoming just backup centers to guys like Ervin Johnson or some other veteran defensive guy.

I don't think Garnett ever had a strong center that could play defense and score the easy points inside. The last time the Twolves were in the playoffs they had needed a younger backcourt to keep building on their successes. If we traded for KG, we'd be depleting our backcourt by getting rid of Ellis and we'd be losing two center prospects or one center prospect for a future all-star power forward with low post footwork. Nobody would make each other better except for KG and Baron Davis, but who protects them? Sjax could do it I guess, but there's no center we can rely on if we trade Beans or POB (who is not battle tested but can prove to be a nice rebounder/shotblocker in due time).

Also, I got KG down as more of a small forward type power forward who works more in the midrange area rather than trying to bang inside. Who knows? Maybe even starting at 205 lbs, this Brandan Wright guy can be a banger with more weight gain and could give us the points we need to neutralize other big players. There's probably more to gain from a quiet effective producer that can stay with the Warriors for years to come than Garnett for maybe a season or two before he jumps ship complaining he's got no help... especially if Baron Davis gets hurt or Bellinelli turns out to be a bust. Having Sjax is nice, but he's no star. He's the Mike Miller, Doug Christie, or Diaw of our franchise... a good glue piece.

While we don't have to worry about POB becoming Robert Parish any time soon, it's best not to trade away center prospects until we know what we have. A center is the most important piece on a team. If the other team doesn't have one and we've got a good rotation at the other four spots, I think we could compete for a championship someday if we've got the formula down and we own the number of the last guy we have to face after beating everyone else.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap99.htm#83 for info on trade kickers. I don't even want to speculate on this. The reading doesn't bother me, I'm just not the surefire expert on this subject of trade rules regarding TK's. It's outside my scope!

But I do think I know why the Twolves never really got anywhere with a surefire franchise center piece like Garnett. 00I think one of the main reasons why the Twolves never really went anywhere was because the strength of the center position was weak and they had no good playmakers to run the team at the guard positions. If you think about the teams that do win championships, it's because of the backcourt and the strength of the center position. While forwards are helpful for providing mismatches on scoring, you typically need the kinds of smaller, faster guys that can pack a drive, shoot, pass type of threat and at least one big with a low post or mid post game who can control the rebounding and second chance points. The Twolves have lacked such players and very few guys played defense except for maybe two guys or three guys (Garnett, Trenton Hassell, Sprewell/Ricky Davis). All the centers that have come and gone played small and underachieving (Nesterovic, Olowakandi, Mark Blount) averaging l6 boards or less a game, some becoming just backup centers to guys like Ervin Johnson or some other veteran defensive guy.

I don't think Garnett ever had a strong center that could play defense and score the easy points inside. The last time the Twolves were in the playoffs they had needed a younger backcourt to keep building on their successes. If we traded for KG, we'd be depleting our backcourt by getting rid of Ellis and we'd be losing two center prospects or one center prospect for a future all-star power forward with low post footwork. Nobody would make each other better except for KG and Baron Davis, but who protects them? Sjax could do it I guess, but there's no center we can rely on if we trade Beans or POB (who is not battle tested but can prove to be a nice rebounder/shotblocker in due time).

Also, I got KG down as more of a small forward type power forward who works more in the midrange area rather than trying to bang inside. Who knows? Maybe even starting at 205 lbs, this Brandan Wright guy can be a banger with more weight gain and could give us the points we need to neutralize other big players. There's probably more to gain from a quiet effective producer that can stay with the Warriors for years to come than Garnett for maybe a season or two before he jumps ship complaining he's got no help... especially if Baron Davis gets hurt or Bellinelli turns out to be a bust. Having Sjax is nice, but he's no star. He's the Mike Miller, Doug Christie, or Diaw of our franchise... a good glue piece.

While we don't have to worry about POB becoming Robert Parish any time soon, it's best not to trade away center prospects until we know what we have. A center is the most important piece on a team. If the other team doesn't have one and we've got a good rotation at the other four spots, I think we could compete for a championship someday if we've got the formula down and we own the number of the last guy we have to face after beating everyone else.</div>

Thanks for the link custodian. But I am with you about all of this cap stuff. It's outside of my scope and interest.

I would disagree with you about KG's game. I agree that he isn't Shaq in the post or probably not even Tim Duncan. He's definitley a high post kind of player. However defensively and rebounding wise I'd say this guy is quite the "banger" at least his stats are that way. He's always been one of the top rebounders in the league and he's a very strong shot blocker. KG is a hall of famer who has averaged around 23 points 12 boards and 5 assists in the last five or six seasons. For his career he's averaged 1.7 blocks and 1.4 steals. His assist-turnover ratio is 1.7-1, with his best ratio being 2.15-1 when he averaged 6.0 assists per game. He's also never played less than 76 games in a season.

However many of your conclusions seem pretty right on as far as KG coming to the Warriors for what Minnesota wants. I don't think Chris Mullin is going to budge on giving the Timberwolves everything that they want. I would be fine with the Ellis, Harrington, Wright, POB deal. If the Timberwolves want anything more, then I'd highly consider adding a draft pick. With a resigned Pietrus, Barnes, and Azubuike the roster would look strong still with:

Baron/Sarunas
Jackson/Azubuike/Marco
Pietrus/Barnes
Garnett/Lasme/Powell?
Biedrins/Foyle

That would be a strong defensive team. AB/KG in the front court, Pietrus and Jackson on the wings, and I became extremely impressed with Baron's defense in the playoffs actually. Pietrus, Barnes, and Marco can provide the outside shooting, KG the high post game, Biedrins the slick and sneaky player finding the cracks for easy buckets in the paint, and of course the Boss doing what he does.

 

I personally think you guys should not go after KG. Like many of you said, there is only one year guranteed that he will stay. There is still the question saying, is it enough to get past Phonix or San Antonio. This would be a bad trade by Golden State if it were to happen. Your future looks really bright right now, with a Ellis- Wright- Biedrins core they can compete with Oden and Durants team in the future.

 

<div class="quote_poster">The Legend Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I personally think you guys should not go after KG. Like many of you said, there is only one year guranteed that he will stay. There is still the question saying, is it enough to get past Phonix or San Antonio. This would be a bad trade by Golden State if it were to happen. Your future looks really bright right now, with a Ellis- Wright- Biedrins core they can compete with Oden and Durants team in the future.</div>

I agree and I know almost everyone here does also. KG and Baron Davis doesn't guarantee you a championship and we need to save these three players for our future. I could see this team be a championship contender in the future with Monta, Beans, Wright, and maybe even players like Patrick O'Bryant and Marco Belinelli. Like M21 said, he could possibly be an all star in the future and we defiantly don't want to trade players like him for Kevin Garnett.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I would be fine with the Ellis, Harrington, Wright, POB deal. If the Timberwolves want anything more, then I'd highly consider adding a draft pick. With a resigned Pietrus, Barnes, and Azubuike the roster would look strong still with:

Baron/Sarunas
Jackson/Azubuike/Marco
Pietrus/Barnes
Garnett/Lasme/Powell?
Biedrins/Foyle</div>Wow, I have to disagree. First of all, Ellis + Wright is too much. Secondly, you're not getting rid of Foyle's contract (that's the only way I'd even consider including Ellis and Wright). Thirdly, you want Pietrus to start? I don't even want him on the team. He is not an NBA starter IMO. I want KG, but not that badly. Now if you get them to send Corey Brewer back, I'd think about it.

 

Ellis and Wright too much i agree.You guys shouldn't trade the future Ellis and Wright for 31 year old KG.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I have to disagree. First of all, Ellis + Wright is too much. Secondly, you're not getting rid of Foyle's contract (that's the only way I'd even consider including Ellis and Wright). Thirdly, you want Pietrus to start? I don't even want him on the team. He is not an NBA starter IMO. I want KG, but not that badly. Now if you get them to send Corey Brewer back, I'd think about it.</div>

Lol, dont get greedy now, there is no way they are going to send Brewer and KG.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I have to disagree. First of all, Ellis + Wright is too much. Secondly, you're not getting rid of Foyle's contract (that's the only way I'd even consider including Ellis and Wright). Thirdly, you want Pietrus to start? I don't even want him on the team. He is not an NBA starter IMO. I want KG, but not that badly. Now if you get them to send Corey Brewer back, I'd think about it.</div>

I think Wright will probably become as good as Andris Biedrins. AB/KG is better than AB/Wright. Plus when Wright finally gets good enough to start, Baron Davis might not even be on the team or healthy enough to play.

Plus Pietrus had very strong stats as a starter last season. He averaged 13.0 points, 5.3 rebounds, .8 steals, .71 blocks(I think he was second best shot blocker on the team statstically), shot 49.6% from the field, and 37.4% from three point range. Those stats are from his 38 starts from last season. Also if you have KG demanding attention in the paint, it would leave Pietrus open for tons of open 3's for him to drain (he shot the second best 3 point percentage on the team last year). If you add his defense which can be very good (I know it doesn't always show, that is why I used the word "can"), I think Pietrus is a very legitimate starter. I remember when people were saying trade Jason Richardson so Pietrus could be a starter. If Mike Dunleavy had these stats people would be thrilled.

 

i think it whould be better if guys didn't do this as well if things don't go as planned the KG will opt out and go somewere else. but i mean i hope u do i would love to have monta and wright with foye brewer and mccants

 

<div class="quote_poster">tycoon21 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">i think it whould be better if guys didn't do this as well if things don't go as planned the KG will opt out and go somewere else. but i mean i hope u do i would love to have monta and wright with foye brewer and mccants</div>

And I'd like to see Baron/KG/Biedrins for the Warriors with shooters like Pietrus and Jackson on the perimeter. But it looks like Minnesota is asking for too much.

 

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope this doesn't happen. To me, right now Mullin looks like a genius for what he's done to improve the roster (granted he has been correcting his OWN mistakes, and granted Nellie has been a good influence for personnel). I'm just worried that Mully will be high on his current success, and let it go to his head that he needs to shock the NBA world by getting Garnett.

On the surface it's a sexy move because it's such a block buster, but just like in chess, sometimes the best move is the quietest. If Mully goes for the checkmate right now, he's just going to sacrifice his pieces but come up short, and be left with his defenses down. Better to just secure the fort, and wait for the right opening to come along.

The fans might not be enamored with NO moves, especially if Phoenix gets Garnett somehow. But he MUST hold off, IMO, and preserve the future.

 

<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope this doesn't happen. To me, right now Mullin looks like a genius for what he's done to improve the roster (granted he has been correcting his OWN mistakes, and granted Nellie has been a good influence for personnel). I'm just worried that Mully will be high on his current success, and let it go to his head that he needs to shock the NBA world by getting Garnett.

On the surface it's a sexy move because it's such a block buster, but just like in chess, sometimes the best move is the quietest. If Mully goes for the checkmate right now, he's just going to sacrifice his pieces but come up short, and be left with his defenses down. Better to just secure the fort, and wait for the right opening to come along.

The fans might not be enamored with NO moves, especially if Phoenix gets Garnett somehow. But he MUST hold off, IMO, and preserve the future.</div>

Unfortunately the fans might not be enamoured with NO moves now. However I think before many fans would have been pleased by keeping last season's roster together. However after the Jason Richardson deal that will not be possible.

From the Chris Mullin interview from the Murph and Mac show, he exhibited how committed he is to make the Warriors better. Specifically he communicated how he goes by the motto or rule of thumb that if your team didn't win the championship then obviously there needs to be moves to get that improvement. He knows clearly well that this team "crawled into the playoffs" to use his exact words even. He knows this team needs to improve to succeed. If this rumor is true about Mullin offering Monta, Harrington, POB, Wright for KG then obviously that is a move that he sees improves the roster for this season. And from the interview he seems most focused on setting the team to win this season. With Don Nelson and next season being perhaps his last season, if he coaches at all, and with Baron Davis on worn knees at age 28-29 for next season, it would seem right to go for some risks to get as far as possible this season. Now with the draft trade obviously they are still concerned about the future. Perhaps the Wright deal was to get KG? Honestly I am confused and spinning with all of the connections to see what Chris Mullin is trying to accomplish.

The future is bright (and am I turning into Dirk by repeating the word "obviously" too much? hah). Chris Mullin has several different ways to go. I agree with taking caution not to ruin the potential of what this roster's future may be (unless if the move can make the team better today than it ever would be on that journey to "develop" and mature this potential (i.e. Baron "The Boss" will not be the same Baron a couple of years from now as he is right now). I am anxious to see summerleague right now to see how these new players like Wright, Marco, and Lasme perform. I don't want to come across as if I don't want to see this roster play together, because I really do. However it's quite rare to have the opportunity, especially as a Warriors fan, of seeing your team acquire a future hall of famer. The dangers and risks have been well documented in this thread. I am very intrigued about what happens.