Bogut Takes Shot at NBA, US Culture

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, what's exactly ur point. There are many different types of hiphop. Does that mean just because a player lives an expensive lifestyle it's a reflection of Hiphop? NO! That's a weak generalization. Also, what does throwin money in the air & naked women have to do with NBA players? Most of these NBA players are MARRIED with kids. Not all of them go to strip clubs and "throw money in the air". The fact is players choose to do what they want to do. Their GROWN ASS MEN who are responsible for their own decisions. Hiphop is a cop out for corporate america to use because they haven't fully understood it. If a player likes to flaunt his $$$, then that's what it is. But it's not because he "saw a rap video" and all of sudden became this money hungy womanizer.

If you think about it, there isn't too much of a difference between pro athletes in general. ALL of them pretty much make the same mistakes. But when it's a NBA player, ppl like to point to hiphop culture. Maybe "greed" is much bigger than Hiphop. Just maybe</div>

I never said I was talking about NBA players in particular. It was more of an attack on hip hop.

As for the players being married with kids: you know what they say about NBA players... (and other athletes of course)

 

<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You really don't be seeming to get the point and are fixed on this hip hop angle as if it is the central issue here. It's not. Get over it.</div>
So what's the point? You tell me. Since my "angle" isn't correct, according to you

 

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm new to hip hop?

Obviously you don't pay any attention to your surroundings. Turn on the radio, MTV, BET, hell even VH1 and you tell me 95% of the "hip hop" they play. Yes, exactly...hoes, pimps, cars, jewelry, gang bangin', etc. </div>Thank you. Rock4life lives in a dream world. 99% of hiphop out there today SHOVES this materialistic nonsense down kids throats. Jay-Z, Diddy, MTV, Madison Avenue are all party to blame for influencing this garbage mentality where anybody is actually impressed cause you never wear the same sneakers twice or you have a 4.6 liter when someone else "only" has a 4.0 liter or you have 24" rims and someone else has 22" rims.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So what's the point? You tell me. Since my "angle" isn't correct, according to you</div>
The point is that American culture is inherently greedy, wasteful, and materialistic (at least to Bogut). And, as a result, its had a big influence on hip hop music and culture. Andrew Bogut was commenting on this and wasn't "attacking hip hop" like you've argued repeatedly. He only mentioned it in passing, as an example. So, none of us really understand why you're making such a big deal about something he didn't even say.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So what's the point? You tell me. Since my "angle" isn't correct, according to you</div>

It really isn't correct. Hip hop is used as an example of our greedy culture. You can say that there are different facets of hip hop all you want (and there are), but the fact is that the MAINSTREAM hip hop that all of America is exposed to through MTV outlets is an example to an extent of what our culture has become. It's just used as an example, not as a mean of pointing a finger to the cause of the problem. You are just getting caught up because you are taking it as a front to all of hip hop. There's a difference between using something as an example and giving blame to something.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say the blame is in large part due to lack of parenting and a deteorating education system.</div>
Well strong parenting obviously will decrease the influence that the media has and encourage the kids to think for themselves, HOWEVER, some people should also take a look at the message they're putting out there and what it is they stand for exactly. And that includes the media and some of the rich and influential.
The gap between the rich and the poor is at an alltime high and if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Not saying i'm innocent either but at least i aspire to it. When you look at the wastefulness and the greed that exists in some parts of U.S. (and is celebrated) and the sheer poverty and despair in other parts, it's pretty clear some things and attitudes need to be fixed.

"Society influences the media"
I disagree somewhat. That's pretty idealistic. The media influences society as well. Are you telling me you are completely immune to advertising? I know I'm not.

You say that people want Paris Hilton, that's why she's on TV?
That's bogus. People aren't given a chance to think or vote for what they want. The media ASSUMES what people want, then shove it down our throats over and over again. They blindside us with Paris Hilton so fast and so hard, we don't have time to think about whether we want it or not.

 

No problems with those comments. I think it really hits the nail on the head. There is no need to make this a racist issue, he never said it was any particular players (black / white) so there is no need for that. I guess some people may take it personally and that is his choice if he wants to speak his mind.
P.S - Those that take offense will probably just DUNK on him harder than normal!!!

 

Is he even good enough to say that stuff?

 

<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Is he even good enough to say that stuff?</div>

That has to do with what. He makes good money, a double double guy, any player can say what they want, it is a matter of how the media spins it. He didn't say anything about how good he was or about another player, he just stated how US culture is.

 

<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It really isn't correct. Hip hop is used as an example of our greedy culture. You can say that there are different facets of hip hop all you want (and there are), but the fact is that the MAINSTREAM hip hop that all of America is exposed to through MTV outlets is an example to an extent of what our culture has become. It's just used as an example, not as a mean of pointing a finger to the cause of the problem. You are just getting caught up because you are taking it as a front to all of hip hop. There's a difference between using something as an example and giving blame to something.</div>
Exactly....But when Hiphop gets used as an example EVERYTIME this subject comes up it's a problem. I think it's time ppl stop mentioning hiphop when it's not neccesary.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly....But when Hiphop gets used as an example EVERYTIME this subject comes up it's a problem. I think it's time ppl stop mentioning hiphop when it's not neccesary.</div>
It's a valid example, though. Obviously hip hop is not the root of the problem. But it does help illustrate Bogut's point, because there's no denying that there's an inherently materialistic side of hip hop culture.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's a valid example, though. Obviously hip hop is not the root of the problem. But it does help illustrate Bogut's point, because there's no denying that there's an inherently materialistic side of hip hop culture.</div>
CORRECTION........Theres an inherently materlistic side to AMERICAN culture. Hiphop is only a small part of the equation, but yet is consistently used as the example. It's not right

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">CORRECTION........Theres an inherently materlistic side to AMERICAN culture. Hiphop is only a small part of the equation, but yet is consistently used as the example. It's not right</div>
What are you correcting? I said exactly the same thing (re-read it if you have to). He's mentioned hip hop in passing, as an example to make his main point about American culture.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What are you correcting? I said exactly the same thing (re-read it if you have to). He's mentioned hip hop in passing, as an example to make his main point about American culture.</div>
Which brings me back to the point that "Hiphop" is almost ALWAYZ used as an example.

 

1. I agree with Bogut. Amen brotha!

2. I really don't understand why people say he should "keep his mouth shut"? Are you serious? Newsflash dudes, we're in America, land of the FREE? Freedom of speech?

3. Rock4life, 95% of Hiphop nowadays are materialistic, blingblingy, pimpz & hoez, etc etc. It isn't the only representation of American culture, but I'd say Hiphop/Rap represent at least 65% of mainstream America today. Just wondering, why are you trying to defend mainstream hiphop? Anybody with an ounce of awareness could tell that hiphop nowadays promotes greed, fast cars, top of the line alcohol, partying, girls, etc etc. I think you just haven't been caught up for the past 10-20 years. Back in the 80s and early 90s they did make good hiphop music but those good old days are gone dude. Wake up.

 

I think that because of americas cultural values (money money money) everything that gets the slightest bit popular, big corparations and busineses will jump on the chance to exploit that popularity to get more money out of it.

Just look at what happened to hip-hop, it started as an art form, an expressionistic style of music that reflected the struggles and leftist opinions of the people behind the music (ie the black community). this is very similar to blues in a way, and just as valid as a musical and lyrical expression. Anyway, Hip-Hop began to gain more and more popularty amongst the country and because of the people making the music (this is mainly less fortunate people than your average american, people lacking in proper educations and experiencing less social acceptence than deserved) there were bad connatations being connected with the musical genre, just like the blues. In western culture, anything that is different from the mainstream is immediatly wrong. But despite these negative veiws, the popularity of the music was sky high and that is when fat people in suits decided to employ young black males to rap about anything at all, they didnt care about their social veiws or their undeserved, unjustified lowering on the social scale, they want money! So you start to get artists moving away from the expressionistic side of Hip-Hop, and into the mainstream, just for the money, therefor it loses its artistic values and becomes a money makiong machine. Its to bad that Hip-Hop has never escaped this.

The same story goes for techno music, started underground, found by men in suits, exploited thus ruined, all for the sake of more money, the american dream. this i beleive is a further interpretation of boguts point and the issue is being discussed daily around the world. its the reason america has so many enemies in other countries. American culture will take anything and make money out of it, but in the process they tend to ruin completley, the artistic and creative roots of whatever they have exploited. I dont think anyone is solely responsible, nor do i think that we can hold something like the media responsible. The whole culture of western society is responsible because all our society orbits around is money. Not love and care and ideas and health and peace within the community, just money, its what drives our culture, and anyone who tries to speak out about it is shot down by the masses of people who agree with what theyre saying, yet are too afraid to follow, and are affraid of being outspoken, afraid of dissconnecting themselves from the pack, from the majority. I support boguts statements and ammend him for having the guts to speak out about his opinion. If you agree with his points then why are you telling him to be quiet? you should support these veiws if you truly beleive in them, not shy away because you affraid of being too radiacal or too extreme, affraid that people will dislike you because of your veiws.

The whole point bogut is making is that he is against the values of american culture, the endless pursuit of money, the american dream. An endless pusuit to the end. Hip-Hop reached its end, just like the first american pioneers who reached the end of their new found land, the west, the coast. This is the american dream, and I support Bogut in his opinions and judgments of it.