<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Joe Smith Kenyon Martin Corey Blount Mark West Udonis Haslem Chris Webber Brendan Haywood Mark Jackson</div> Other than maybe Udonis Haslem, I'd rather have Scola than any of those players. <ul> [*] Miami isn't going to just give up Haslem for nothing. Come up with a trade idea, and we can discuss it. [*]Chris Webber has said he's only going to play for Dallas or Detroit, and he'd be too expensive regardless. [*]Kenyon Martin is perennially injured and has a terrible contract ($45 million over next 3 years). [*]Haywood is a center who's owed $11.5 million over the next two years. [*]Marc Jackson is more of a center than a PF, and he isn't very good anyways. [*]Mark West is 47 years old and has been out of the league since 2000. [/list] <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You act like since he's some star overseas he'll automatically transfer his starpower in the NBA (now that's foolish). The fact is he's a "project". Right now we can't afford any "projects" at that position. Especially in the Western Conference where we'll see a tough match up almost every night. If this is our final move of the offseason, then we've sold ourselves short.</div> I never said he'd transfer his starpower over here. You want a freaking allstar at every position or something? I don't know what you mean when you say "compete" against other PFs in the playoffs, but keep dreaming if you think we can acquire a player who'll match Duncan, Stoudamire, Nowitzki, Boozer, etc. basket for basket. Scola is relatively young, and he's experienced. He's an Olympian, and he's won league MVP 2 of the last 3 years. He's widely considered the best big man not currently in the NBA. Just like Jorge Garbajosa (another former Spanish league star) was able to contribute right off the bat in his first season with the Raptors, I expect Scola to be instantly effective for us.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Other than maybe Udonis Haslem, I'd rather have Scola than any of those players. <ul> [*] Miami isn't going to just give up Haslem for nothing. Come up with a trade idea, and we can discuss it. [*]Chris Webber has said he's only going to play for Dallas or Detroit, and he'd be too expensive regardless. [*]Kenyon Martin is perennially injured and has a terrible contract ($45 million over next 3 years). [*]Haywood is a center who's owed $11.5 million over the next two years. [*]Marc Jackson is more of a center than a PF, and he isn't very good anyways. [*]Mark West is 47 years old and has been out of the league since 2000. [/list] </div> Given the importance of havin flexibility at the PF position, especially in the west, i think we might have to take a gamble on a bad contract (depending on the talent-level on the player). I'm having trouble understanding where you stand. You'd apparently turn down a skilled veteran powerforward with baggage (injuries, bad contract etc...) over a 2nd round European rookie who's never played 1 NBA game and pronounce him a starter. That's ridiculous logic. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I never said he'd transfer his starpower over here. You want a freaking allstar at every position or something? I don't know what you mean when you say "compete" against other PFs in the playoffs, but keep dreaming if you think we can acquire a player who'll match Duncan, Stoudamire, Nowitzki, Boozer, etc. basket for basket.</div> That's funny you say that.........because none of the players I listed are currently allstars. Also, when I say compete I mean a player who can give other players problems. Shane Battier should be ur prime example. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Scola is relatively young, and he's experienced. He's an Olympian, and he's won league MVP 2 of the last 3 years. He's widely considered the best big man not currently in the NBA. Just like Jorge Garbajosa (another former Spanish league star) was able to contribute right off the bat in his first season with the Raptors, I expect Scola to be instantly effective for us.</div> No he's not. He's a damn rookie! And since you think he'll be effective his first year then I'll hold you to that all season. Because I don't think he'll be effective in a STARTERS role. Once again ur overestimating a player. NOTE:The Rockets goals should be to find a servicable veteran at PF. Somebody who can run the court, play tough defense, rebound and slide over to center if need be.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Given the importance of havin flexibility at the PF position, especially in the west, i think we might have to take a gamble on a bad contract (depending on the talent-level on the player). I'm having trouble understanding where you stand. You'd apparently turn down a skilled veteran powerforward with baggage (injuries, bad contract etc...) over a 2nd round European rookie who's never played 1 NBA game and pronounce him a starter. That's ridiculous logic.</div> You talk about having flexibility at PF, and you mention players like Brendan Haywood, Marc Jackson, and Mark West? Kenyon Martin isn't just a bad contract. It's arguably the worst contract in the league. You even suggesting we bring him in is a complete joke. Chris Webber has said that he only will play for two teams -- Detroit or Dallas. That leaves Udonis Haslem as the only viable option that matches your criteria. But Miami will probably expect a lot in return. Again, come up with a trade proposal, and we can discuss it. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No he's not. He's a damn rookie! And since you think he'll be effective his first year then I'll hold you to that all season. Because I don't think he'll be effective in a STARTERS role. Once again ur overestimating a player.</div> I'll cut the suspense right now and guarantee you won't think that Scola was an effective starter for us a year from now. I think Scola will be effective. He has a decent midrange jumper, and he moves well without the basket. He's an able passer from the high post, and he can finish with athleticism. He should be a very good fit in Adelman's system.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Im nuetral on this one. We still don't have a starting PF yet. Chuck Hayes, Jackie Butler and the rookie aren't gonna get the job done at PF. We're gonna need a starter.</div> We essentially got something very good for practically nothing. Why would you be neutral on that? Doesn't make any sense. Then again, that seems to be a common theme.
<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We essentially got something very good for practically nothing. Why would you be neutral on that? Doesn't make any sense. Then again, that seems to be a common theme.</div> It makes sense. He doesn't like Daryl Morey, so he's reluctant to give him credit for anything (e.g. all the credit for Aaron Brooks, should he turn into a player, will go to Adelman). Also, he likes old/hobbled PFs who are well past their prime and have questionable contracts. Scola doesn't fit that profile.
Oooo oh.... here we go again. Anyway, this trade is pretty good deal. I would hate if Spanoulis becomes productive next season...
<div class="quote_poster">squall15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Oooo oh.... here we go again. Anyway, this trade is pretty good deal. I would hate if Spanoulis becomes productive next season...</div> All indications are that Spanoulis won't even play for the Spurs. His agent already said that Spanoulis wouldn't come back to the NBA even if offered a starting job on the Spurs. The motivation for the Spurs was purely to dump salary. I've read that they cut off $7 million from their team salary with this deal, and they had to trade away Scola before July 15th if they wanted to get anything for him. Obviously, they didn't feel Butler was an asset worth keeping. Worst case scenario, the Rockets didn't lose anything on this deal. Best case, they added two significant rotation players at positions of need for nothing. It's low risk, high reward.
Rock4life, you have a very narrow-minded view of players coming over from Europe. You have to understand how improved those leagues are and the quality talent that is available there. Top-level players in Europe aren't scrubs in the NBA. And not every player that comes over from the Euroleagues is a project. Andres Nocioni, Anthony Parker, Jorge Garbajosa (who played out of position all year, fyi), Fabricio Oberto, and Walter Herrman are all examples of quality European players that did the majority of their development outside the NBA and were still able to make an immediate impact. Now take into consideration that Scola has had just as accomplished a career overseas, if not more, than all of those players and has been widely viewed as the best player not in the NBA for a few years now. All signs point to Scola being ready to contribute now and I really think he can be a solid starting PF next to Yao. Now, obviously we have to realize that there's a possibility that he doesn't pan out (there are no guarantees in the NBA of course). But, you still got him (and another valuable big) for essentially nothing. I mean, sh*t, that's a win-win all the way isn't it? It seems like you're complaining just for the sake of complaining once again.
Chris Sheridan blogged about this on ESPN Insider: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sheridan:</div><div class="quote_post"> Let's have a closer look at Thursday's Spurs-Rockets trade, which basically boiled down to Houston giving up a Greek who desperately wants out of America for an Argentine who's been hoping to get to the NBA for a half-decade. ... In my opinion, the Rockets got the better of this trade, giving up very, very little to acquire a player who will probably be their starting power forward on opening night. I've seen Scola play quite a bit for the Argentinian national team, and he was arguably the second-best player on the roster behind Manu Ginobili -- although some would argue that Andres Nocioni should hold that distinction. Scola, however, was a banger underneath whose offensive touch is far superior to that of Fabricio Oberto, who started alongside him for Argentina. I don't make much of the inclusion of Jackie Butler, who did not look sharp in Las Vegas. The Rockets can keep him as an insurance policy behind Dikembe Mutombo, or pawn him off on whichever team is the next to hire Larry Brown, who loved Butler when he coached him with the Knicks in 2005-06.</div> link
Honestly Scola is labeled as a rookie, but is not at all. He has everything we wanted and is everyting the rockets want. THE ONLY GAMBLE IS IF HIS GAME TRANSFERS TO THE NBA. rock4life, your truelly selling scola short. I wouldn't judge him before you've seen him play. highlights don't count, because it doesn't show his skills. Given the situation, we got the best PF available. All the people you named either are well past their prime and/or have ridiculous contracts. We can't have a guy at PF that is due 10+ million. Scola is only getting 3 million his first year and the possible reward is high. The trade is actually good because we loose a guy who didn't wanna play for us for the back up players at worst(or 1 starter and 1 backup)
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You talk about having flexibility at PF, and you mention players like Brendan Haywood, Marc Jackson, and Mark West?</div> Actually that was David West, my mistake. But lets look at our roster for a sec. Right now all of our PF's are terribly undersized, somethin in which you've completley ignored. When I say "flexibilty", I mean somebody with enuff size to play center & PF and get up & down the court. Somebody who'll bring some energy and can FINISH in traffic (unlike Chuck Hayes did against Utah). <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon Martin isn't just a bad contract. It's arguably the worst contract in the league. You even suggesting we bring him in is a complete joke.</div> Kenyon Martin would be a high risk player, especially because of injury. But 4things he can bring us are A)Energy & Hustle B)Playoff experience C)Attitude & D)Offensive production. Those things are important comin from our PF position. Has this rookie proven he can do those things on a NBA level yet? Absoltley not. But yet Durvasa's already handed him the starting job. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Chris Webber has said that he only will play for two teams -- Detroit or Dallas.</div> Allegedly.... Doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue him, especially being he had his best years under our coach. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That leaves Udonis Haslem as the only viable option that matches your criteria. But Miami will probably expect a lot in return. Again, come up with a trade proposal, and we can discuss it. </div> Glad you said that. There was a recent report that we were pursuing Haslem straight up for Alston. That's not my trade prosposal, those are reports from credible sources. Go figure <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Scola will be effective. He has a decent midrange jumper, and he moves well without the basket. He's an able passer from the high post, and he can finish with athleticism. He should be a very good fit in Adelman's system.</div> But you've already announced him a starter. Huge mistake. What are his plus minus stats in the NBA? Oops I forgot, he's never played an NBA game in his life. <div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We essentially got something very good for practically nothing. Why would you be neutral on that? Doesn't make any sense. Then again, that seems to be a common theme.</div> Essentially good? We won't know that until he pans out. I'm sure you've already created ur built in excuse if he doesn't
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Glad you said that. There was a recent report that we were pursuing Haslem straight up for Alston. That's not my trade prosposal, those are reports from credible sources. Go figure</div>I don't know if you really looked into it, but the "rumor" came from hoopsworld, which first of all has never been the first to report any big deals. That article was not based on any insider information, just a writer's proposal for an Alston for Haslem move. In layman's terms, it's just as credible as you or me coming up with a "Snyder for Kobe" deal.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Essentially good? We won't know that until he pans out. I'm sure you've already created ur built in excuse if he doesn't</div> Our worst case scenario is that he doesnt play well. THat means we gave up nothing for nothing. Our best case scenario is that we gave up nothing from a very good player. He has proven himself in the Euroleague. All he needs to do is prove himself here. I'm sorry, I don't buy your logic. Then again, once your mind is fixed, it can't be changed. You still blame Hayes for our loss against Utah...as if Juwan Howard had nothing to do with it. Then again, you thought Juwan Howard is a very good pf....
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually that was David West, my mistake. But lets look at our roster for a sec. Right now all of our PF's are terribly undersized, somethin in which you've completley ignored. When I say "flexibilty", I mean somebody with enuff size to play center & PF and get up & down the court. Somebody who'll bring some energy and can FINISH in traffic (unlike Chuck Hayes did against Utah). </div> You're living in a dream world if you think New Orleans is going to trade David West to a divisional rival for our spare parts. What can we possibly offer for a player of his caliber? Get real. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon Martin would be a high risk player, especially because of injury. But 4things he can bring us are A)Energy & Hustle B)Playoff experience C)Attitude & D)Offensive production. Those things are important comin from our PF position.</div> Kenyon Martin is owed $45 million dollars over the next three years and he played 2 games last year. He's not even an option for us. The Rockets would be the laughing stock of the league if they actually pursued that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Has this rookie proven he can do those things on a NBA level yet? Absoltley not. But yet Durvasa's already handed him the starting job. </div> This is funny, coming from someone who thought we could solve our PF issue via the draft. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Allegedly.... Doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue him, especially being he had his best years under our coach. </div> Pursue him with what? What kind of deal do you think we can pull off to acquire Chris Webber? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Glad you said that. There was a recent report that we were pursuing Haslem straight up for Alston. That's not my trade prosposal, those are reports from credible sources. Go figure</div> Why would Miami even consider trading Haslem for Rafer Alston? What's your "credible source" on that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But you've already announced him a starter. Huge mistake. What are his plus minus stats in the NBA? Oops I forgot, he's never played an NBA game in his life.</div> Who am I to accounce the starter? He should be capable of stepping in as a starter based on all the reports about him. But I'm not against us looking for another PF to compete for the starting job. That doesn't mean I support saddling ourselves with another dumb contract for an aging, over-the-hill player. Good teams don't do that.
This is great news....question is what to do with the remainder of our MLE????....I'm thinking this guy can start right away given that I've heard a lot of good things about him. Question though is this guy a good shooter, effective low post scorer, good defender, etc???
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This is great news....question is what to do with the remainder of our MLE????....I'm thinking this guy can start right away given that I've heard a lot of good things about him. Question though is this guy a good shooter, effective low post scorer, good defender, etc???</div> His range extends to maybe 15 feet. He's considered a good low post scorer, and a good finisher around the basket. He's plays tough and physical on defense (think Nocioni), but may not be a great defender. That's what I can gather from what I've read.
You guys should ask M Two One about Scola. Dude's a big fan of his and probably knows more about him than anybody else on this site. And Rock4life, you really got to stop throwing the word rookie out around like that. It makes you look naive and ignorant. Sure, technically its his first NBA season, so he's labeled a rookie. But Scola's 27, has more basketball experience than most of the players on the Rockets roster and is ready to contribute now.
Rock4life... I don't know what to say. You have got be one of the most close minded people ever in this board.
I see Scola as being an Battier-type at the 4. He may not put up huge numbers but he's a winner and will do all the little things that win ballgames. I absolutely love this deal and am certain Scola will do well in the NBA (though he might need to go through an adjustment period). Basically both teams gave up assets which were near worthless to them. Spurs needed to sign Scola now or risk losing him, something about now being the best time for him to get out of the Spanish league before his buyout amount went up significantly? And Scola wasn't going to come in to backup Duncan and play in Oberto's shadow. We all know Billy wasn't coming back. I think the Spurs could have gotten more, but I guess they liked the idea of dropping Butler's salary and getting the luxury tax relief from Billy's contract being terminated. I agree on all points discussed by durvasa - KMart is lucky if he plays half the 07/08 season. David West is NOT going anywhere. Webber would be "ok" though he's well past his prime and has no knees left, questionable for all 82 games. He also hogs the ball at times, not something u want when Yao and TMac need to be the focus of the offense. And Haslem isn't going to be traded - he's one of Miami's most consistent players.. Who's going to start in his place? Antoine Walker? The three players I thought might be available were Donyell Marshall (good 3 pt shooter, rebounder, shot blocker, but past his prime), Charlie Villanueva (might be expendable if they manage to sign Yi, also a good outside shooter, Milwaukee might need a starter-capable PG), or Etan Thomas (wide body, physical, but limited offensively and 15% trade kicker makes him expensive). For those who haven't seen much of Scola... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT2bH--_iUc (Scola blocks Jermaine O'Neal) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1phCgmIS4 (05-06 highlights) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ-tZz-LbR8&NR=1 (more highlights - check out the block at 0:35, quite a few posters too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZwmj2cLvw (couple nice moves)
