<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No one player on the Nets (except maybe Kidd) could be the reason why the Nets made it to the Finals. Every player served a role and the Nets as a cohesive unit made it to the Finals. Had you taken Kidd, Jefferson, Martin, or even Kittles out of the roster and we could be looking at different results.</div> But the again, you still can't take away the fact that they mad the finals twice when Kenyon Martin was on the team and he was the biggest reason why except for Jason Kidd. Like I have said before, Kenyon Martin was the soul and heart of this team during those times. <div class="quote_poster">Ma3oxuct Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">1) The Nets would be significantly over-paying Martin (injuries or not). Remember that the Nets had Jefferson to resign the following year.</div> I think that Kenyon Martin should have stayed instead of Richard Jefferson. Jefferson may be younger, but K-Mart wasn't old. He was only 26 at the time. Despite his injuries, he was still producing alot not to mention he was the heart of this team even with Kidd here. Kidd was everything else, but Martin was th heart. His passion made it even more exciting to watch Nets basketball. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2b) The Nets got Carter. Have the Nets not been competitive with him? In Carter's first season, they lost to Miami in the first round. Miami went on to win the championship. The Nets with Martin would not have been able to beat Miami. In Carter's second season, the lost to Miami again. Same story: A Martin centered team would not have done better.</div> How could you say Martin on the team wouldn't have done better? Big men usually tend to become more valuable then guards, which is why having Kenyon Martin would have changed the series against the Heat. Martin, Collins, and Krstic could compete with Shaq, Haslem, and Zo. I'm guessing you guys forgot what Kenyon Martin brought to this team. Not only was he good for alley-oops with Kidd, but he was also one of the best power forwards at the time. Possibly behind Duncan, Garnett, and maybe even Nowitzki. He brought passion to this Nets team, he gave them confidence, he was the perfect side-kick for Jason Kidd; a guy who could work excellent in the paint. Kenyon was also very quick for a guy of his size. He could do it all. His defensive game was better then his offensive game, but he could still rack up a double double on any given night. Too bad we traded him or else we would have possibly had some trophies in our trophy case.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I think that Kenyon Martin should have stayed instead of Richard Jefferson. Jefferson may be younger, but K-Mart wasn't old. He was only 26 at the time. Despite his injuries, he was still producing alot not to mention he was the heart of this team even with Kidd here. Kidd was everything else, but Martin was th heart. His passion made it even more exciting to watch Nets basketball.</div> Compare that to Jefferson who was 22 at the time. Right now Jefferson is 27. Martin is now 30, 31? Yes, he was the heart and soal of this teams, no doubt about that. The question is how long could he keep it up and for what money? He was a phenomenal player on his rookie contract. Once he had his big contract he fell apart. Had he stayed on the Nets he would have even play the first season because the wonderful training staff would have him heal his knees. Martin could never carry the Nets all by himself. The Nets relied on a tandem of Kidd, Kittles, Jefferson, and Martin. Take Jefferson out of the equation, but keep Martin in, the Nets simply become a mediocre passionate team. Keep Jefferson in, subtract Martin, add Carter, and you have a team that has a chance to win any game they play. <div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> How could you say Martin on the team wouldn't have done better? Big men usually tend to become more valuable then guards, which is why having Kenyon Martin would have changed the series against the Heat. Martin, Collins, and Krstic could compete with Shaq, Haslem, and Zo.</div> Martin, Collins, and Krstic vs. Shaq could barely compete. Add Zo and Haslem, and you have 2-3 mismatches any way you put it. <div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm guessing you guys forgot what Kenyon Martin brought to this team. Not only was he good for alley-oops with Kidd, but he was also one of the best power forwards at the time. Possibly behind Duncan, Garnett, and maybe even Nowitzki. He brought passion to this Nets team, he gave them confidence, he was the perfect side-kick for Jason Kidd; a guy who could work excellent in the paint. Kenyon was also very quick for a guy of his size. He could do it all. His defensive game was better then his offensive game, but he could still rack up a double double on any given night. Too bad we traded him or else we would have possibly had some trophies in our trophy case. </div> No one forgot what he brought to the table. He was phenomenal for the Nets. You are forgetting, however, what he was asking for. He was asking for WAY too much money. The Nets found a wonderful chance when they got three draft pick for him. Don't forget that the East did not have any big men seriously competing against Martin. Just about any Western forward on a good team could outplay Martin (either by defending him, or by putting pressure on his defense).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No one forgot what he brought to the table. He was phenomenal for the Nets. You are forgetting, however, what he was asking for. He was asking for WAY too much money. The Nets found a wonderful chance when they got three draft pick for him.</div> At the time, he was worth that much money. He was coming off one of his best years despite not playing in more than 60 games. But even I will admit, I would rather have Carter than Martin.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At the time, he was worth that much money. He was coming off one of his best years despite not playing in more than 60 games. But even I will admit, I would rather have Carter than Martin.</div> Even at that time, he was not worth that much. At that time he was worth a $80 - $85 millions TOPS. If he knees were not shabby then, yes, he would be worth what he got, but even then, that would be the high end of things.
<div class="quote_poster">Ma3oxuct Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Being a former All-star means very little. How will Magloire cover up for Kittles and Van Horn? He'll be shooting threes? He'll be defending other shooting guards and small forwards? I think not. If the Nets do not get to the finals this year, nothing is proved. Please explain how it is otherwise.</div> I meant it as scoring wise and maybe even rebounding wise. He is a good player that will play even better with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You have to insane to think Collins can out-match Shaq. </div> Read my post again, I never said he can out-match him. What I did say is that he could slow him down because he is a good inside defender, but there is no way he will score on Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I meant it as scoring wise and maybe even rebounding wise. He is a good player that will play even better with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter.</div> All we knew right now is that he was a good player. He had a significant dropoff last season. Whether he will rebound from that season remains to be seen. I certainly hope he plays well. Scoring-wise, the Nets always have Carter, RJ, and Krstic to go to. They sorely need rebouding and defense. Magloire used to provide a good amount of both, however, judging by last season, he is washed up. <div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Read my post again, I never said he can out-match him. What I did say is that he could slow him down because he is a good inside defender, but there is no way he will score on Shaq.</div> Slowing him does not mean stopping him. In my books, Collins is out matched against Shaq. Martin is out matched against Shaq. And so is Krstic. Against Zo, only Martin has a chance of out-matching him (even then it is close). Against Haslem, only Martin clearly out matches him (it has to be a 3/4 healthy Martin at that).
<div class="quote_poster">Ma3oxuct Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All we knew right now is that he was a good player. He had a significant dropoff last season. Whether he will rebound from that season remains to be seen. I certainly hope he plays well. Scoring-wise, the Nets always have Carter, RJ, and Krstic to go to. They sorely need rebouding and defense. Magloire used to provide a good amount of both, however, judging by last season, he is washed up.</div> Remember the year he was an all star? He was working alongside a played named Baron Davis who made Magloire have much easier baskets and made him into what he is today. Jason Kidd who is a better playmaker than Baron Davis will make Jamaal Magloire even better than he was before and to top that off, Vince Carter is also a good playmaker so I think we should get ready for a great year from him. Plus his career average in rebounds is 8, but during his all star season it was 10. I think he will rebound the ball even better here where our best rebounder is our point guard. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Slowing him does not mean stopping him. In my books, Collins is out matched against Shaq. Martin is out matched against Shaq. And so is Krstic. Against Zo, only Martin has a chance of out-matching him (even then it is close). Against Haslem, only Martin clearly out matches him (it has to be a 3/4 healthy Martin at that).</div> No one in this league could stop Shaq, but Jason Collins is defiantly one of the closest. Kenyon Martin (when healthy) could dominate Alonzo Mourning, let me repeat it: When Kenyon Martin is healthy, he could dominate Alonzo Mourning. I think we are also forgetting that Kenyon was a pretty good post defender. Plus with his explosiveness, he could easily dunk on Alonzo much like Carter has done over the years. I think Haslem vs Krstic would be a nice match-up, but in the end I see the 7 foot Nenad Krstic having his way with the 6 foot 8 power forward.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Remember the year he was an all star? He was working alongside a played named Baron Davis who made Magloire have much easier baskets and made him into what he is today. Jason Kidd who is a better playmaker than Baron Davis will make Jamaal Magloire even better than he was before and to top that off, Vince Carter is also a good playmaker so I think we should get ready for a great year from him. Plus his career average in rebounds is 8, but during his all star season it was 10. I think he will rebound the ball even better here where our best rebounder is our point guard. </div> We can only wait and see. This is off topic though because you still have not explained how getting Magloire and not getting to finals makes the Martin trade a bad move. <div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No one in this league could stop Shaq, but Jason Collins is defiantly one of the closest. Kenyon Martin (when healthy) could dominate Alonzo Mourning, let me repeat it: When Kenyon Martin is healthy, he could dominate Alonzo Mourning. I think we are also forgetting that Kenyon was a pretty good post defender. Plus with his explosiveness, he could easily dunk on Alonzo much like Carter has done over the years. I think Haslem vs Krstic would be a nice match-up, but in the end I see the 7 foot Nenad Krstic having his way with the 6 foot 8 power forward.</div> "When healthy" is the key. I never stated that talking about Martin matching up with Zo (I only mentioned that related to Haslem). In Miami's championship year, Zo would have an edge (even if slight) over Martin merely judging by the way he was playing in those playoffs. Against Haslem, Krstic will take jumpshots. Haslem plays too rough for Krstic to go inside. If Krstic's shot is going for him, then Haslem can do nothing. Defensively, Krstic won't really stop Haslem (nor let him score much either). Haslem gains an edge when we talk about rebounding. Haslem will take Krstic on the boards and as a result help his team more. Once again, however, we seem to have gone off-topic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again, however, we seem to have gone off-topic.</div> <font color=""Blue"">I agree guys, it's fun for me to read, but let's get back on track. I might have to delete a couple of posts, that don't relate to the task.</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Ma3oxuct Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Even at that time, he was not worth that much. At that time he was worth a $80 - $85 millions TOPS. If he knees were not shabby then, yes, he would be worth what he got, but even then, that would be the high end of things.</div> His knees needed surgery, unfortunately our front office was too stupid to realize it, but instead they traded him for draft picks in which we got Marcus Williams and Antonie Wright in. Like I have said before, if Kenyon Martin had stayed here, I don't think he would have been that injured to not play more than 2 games in a season. He was a franchise player, with Kidd feeding him the ball. This up-coming season, I think that working with Iverson will give him one of his best seasons ever. But back on topic, I think that Kenyon Martin was worth all that money, and you will see why this upcoming season.
<div class="quote_poster">Legacy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">His knees needed surgery, unfortunately our front office was too stupid to realize it, but instead they traded him for draft picks in which we got Marcus Williams and Antonie Wright in. Like I have said before, if Kenyon Martin had stayed here, I don't think he would have been that injured to not play more than 2 games in a season. He was a franchise player, with Kidd feeding him the ball. This up-coming season, I think that working with Iverson will give him one of his best seasons ever. But back on topic, I think that Kenyon Martin was worth all that money, and you will see why this upcoming season.</div> Quite the contrary! The Nets management was cognizant enough to understand that Martin needed surgery. Any time you put someone through surgery, there is a good chance that they won't heal right afterwards, or they will heal, but never be the same again. The Nets management was smart enough and good enough to get as much out of K-Mart as they did. Once again, your argument rests on pure speculation. Chances are high that Martin will not even be a shadow of his former self this upcoming season. If he is so worth his money, then why had Denver wanted to part with him? Why was Denver not able to trade him? There is a very good reason why: No one whats to pay Martin what he makes. It is just too risky with his knees and all.
