Ensuring the win - stealing signals with video cameras

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Wow. I am being quoted for being pithy & not a &#%!&(#$@</font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Seriously, it makes me wonder about the realationship between EM & BB during Mangini's tenure in Foxboro?</font></p>

<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#800000">I brought this up on the forums last season and some pats fans tried to "admonish" me. But, the NE franchise conveniently "fixed" their field before their game w/ Indy. Coincedence? Timing? lol.</font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Pats fans & the media (Boston, ESPN, or otherwise) can spin and/or whine all they want. </font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font color="#800000"><u>No other team</u> has been caught/penalized or even called out (to my knowledge) for "Spying". </font></font></font><font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font color="#800000">The Pats have allegedly been cheating for many years. </font></font></font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font face="georgia,palatino" color="#33cccc">If your not down w/ that; I've got 1 word 4 ya........Snowplow.</font></font></font></p>

</div></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'>So a snow plow invalidates their Superbowls? And they are allowed to do a lot of things to their field.</div> </p>Earlier, in the thread, you called for proof. So I cited some historical evidence/proof and even emphasized it. Yet,you miscomprehend. Is itbecause the mindnumbingly & incredibly obvious truth is out there and its too overwhelming for you to accept?

 

[quote name='blackadder'][quote name='blackadder']

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Wow. I am being quoted for being pithy & not a &#%!&(#$@</font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Seriously, it makes me wonder about the realationship between EM & BB during Mangini's tenure in Foxboro?</font></p>

<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#800000">I brought this up on the forums last season and some pats fans tried to "admonish" me. But, the NE franchise conveniently "fixed" their field before their game w/ Indy. Coincedence? Timing? lol.</font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times" size="3" color="#800000">Pats fans & the media (Boston, ESPN, or otherwise) can spin and/or whine all they want. </font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font color="#800000"><u>No other team</u> has been caught/penalized or even called out (to my knowledge) for "Spying". </font></font></font><font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font color="#800000">The Pats have allegedly been cheating for many years. </font></font></font></p>

<font face="times new roman,times"><font size="3"><font face="georgia,palatino" color="#33cccc">If your not down w/ that; I've got 1 word 4 ya........Snowplow.</font></font></font></p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

[quote name='huevonkiller'] So a snow plow invalidates their Superbowls? And they are allowed to do a lot of things to their field. [/QUOTE] </p>Earlier, in the thread, you called for proof. So I cited some historical evidence/proof and even emphasized it. Yet, you miscomprehend. Is it because the mindnumbingly & incredibly obvious truth is out there and its too overwhelming for you to accept? [/QUOTE]

What proof are you speaking of? You talk about a field (which I'm not even sure is against the rules), the snow plow (which I do believe is illegal to use but how many times was that used anyway?), and then you talk about allegations again.</p>[quote name='The Return of the Raider']

There is nothing that I need to prove, the evidence is all laid out before us, and the Patriots have to face the music. Apparently, Goodell had enough evidence:</p>

1) failed drug test by Harrison. you want to dispute that? Do I need to prove that he failed the test for you? </p>

2) Video camera. Again, the evidence is already there, and you have seen it along with everyone else.</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

All of those events occurred now. Harrison cheated this year, so did the Patriots in that Jets/GB Game. How do you know what games they cheated in, in the past?</p>

I'm sure more information will come out, and then I'll be ready to condemn the Pats. Until then, a lot of people are using recent events as a pretext to talk smalk.</p>

 

</p>

huevonkiller is simply throwing smokescreens onto the topicin an attempt save face, and to keep the arguement moving along. It's really too late though, since the Supreme Court ofPublic Opinion has already made their ruling, 7-2 for theadditionof yet another asterick next to the New England Patriot's dynasty. (the first one was planted on them after the Tuck rule, see Court of Public Opinion case # 2348-A3433.</p>

</p>

 

[quote name='huevonkiller

All of those events occurred now. Harrison cheated this year, so did the Patriots in that Jets/GB Game. How do you know what games they cheated in, in the past?</p>

I'm sure more information will come out, and then I'll be ready to condemn the Pats. Until then, a lot of people are using recent events as a pretext to talk smalk.</p>

[/QUOTE'] </p>

Is Harrison still a Patriot? If he had been playing for the Raiders and that happened, he would have been cut the following day. </p>

</p>

</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>

huevonkiller is simply throwing smokescreens onto the topic in an attempt save face, and to keep the arguement moving along. It's really too late though, since the Supreme Court of Public Opinion has already made their ruling, 7-2 for the addition of yet another asterick next to the New England Patriot's dynasty. (the first one was planted on them after the Tuck rule, see Court of Public Opinion case # 2348-A3433.</p>

</div></p>

And do you care to explain how I'm throwing smokescreens? I'm simply reporting the news, not throwing out tall-tale theories like you.</p>

</p>

 

<p style="background-color: #ffffff"><font color="#ff0000">Do not attack other posters</font></p><p style="background-color: #ffffff"><font color="#ff0000">-ZAE</font></p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'>

And tell me about these various plays that went in their favor. Even if they got favorable calls, how do you know it was on purpose? </p>

Barry Bonds has a mountain of evidence against him. </p></div>

There were plays that actually had the "tuck" which were not called tuck plays, prior to *that* game, between other teams. I watched a few of them on televsion shortly after the tuck incident went down. It was basically two guys discussing the tuck, the history of similar plays, and how NFL officials had never called them. Don't ask me to produce the footage, the games, or anything else about it, because I do not remember all of them at this point. Suffice it to say, NE got the first ever call on that rule.</p>

Possession is 9/10 th's of the law. Rodney Harrison failed a drug test for HGH. Barry Bonds has yet to fail a test for steriods. A Patriot employee got caught red-handed with the video camera. Proof.</p>

</p>

</p></div>

</p>I've been watching football since 1975. I had never once seen "the tuck rule" invoked until the Raiders-Patriots playoff game. You would think that I would have heard about "the tuck rule" or heard a sportscaster discuss what a "football move" was at some point prior to that game. The refs pulled that rule and interpretation out of their butts and I would like to know how much they got paid to do it.

 

I hope this doesnt effect Moss' performance in week 2

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>

</p>I've been watching football since 1975. I had never once seen "the tuck rule" invoked until the Raiders-Patriots playoff game. You would think that I would have heard about "the tuck rule" or heard a sportscaster discuss what a "football move" was at some point prior to that game. The refs pulled that rule and interpretation out of their butts and I would like to know how much they got paid to do it.</div>

The interpretation of the rule on that particular play was inconclusive as well. You need to have conclusive video evidence to overturn a ruling on the field. It was a miscarriage of justice *at the very least*, and likely influenced by NE forces ($$$). I don't believe that any official without an agenda would have made that game-changing call with such little conclusive evidence. </p>

</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Would anyone object to me picking this guy up by the throat and nailing him to a cross through his skull?</p>

</div></p>

Yeah <font color="#ff0000">-do not call other posters names-</font>, I already knew that. You have no argument, you can't even name other calls that went in their favor. You don't even know how to explain how I've been smokescreening this debate. </p>

Yes the tuck rule was BS, but refs being paid off? Some of you people sound like bitter babies, grow up really. I hate the Patriots, but I'm a mature enough person to realize when people are trying to slander others. </p>

I don't care if the Pats cheated or not, but let's see some more concrete evidence arrive. And if it's so obvious they cheated, the Pats should be struggling any day now, right? Heh. </p>

</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Blackadder, a miami fan/employee should get one of those snowplows and go plow and asterick right in the middle of Gillette Field. That would make me laugh.</div> </p>

Don't give Dale any ideas. LOL? We'd hate to have to have the field resodded yet again. Though, this time there would be an actual valid claim to do "yardwork"</p>

If a Miami fan drives the snowplow, a Raider fan should make surethe driver is properly seated i.e tucked in behind the wheel.rofl</p>

</p>

</div> </p>

I'd love to drive that snowplow, but I don't think I'm qualified. I've never done time and their driver was doing time for burglary. Here's the story about how Patriot fans came to embrace an ex-con and make him a folk herobecause he helped them cheat their way to victory.</p>

http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/20020125foxboro5.asp</p>

</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Would anyone object to me picking this guy up by the throat and nailing him to a cross through his skull?</p>

</div></p>

Yeah you're an immature brat, I already knew that. You have no argument, you can't even name other calls that went in their favor. You don't even know how to explain how I've been smokescreening this debate. </p>

Yes the tuck rule was BS, but refs being paid off? Some of you people sound like bitter babies, grow up really. I hate the Patriots, but I'm a mature enough person to realize when people are trying to slander others. </p>

I don't care if the Pats cheated or not, but let's see some more concrete evidence arrive. And if it's so obvious they cheated, the Pats should be struggling any day now, right? Heh. </p>

</p></div>

Oh, I was merely asking if anyone would mind. It's not likely that I would ever get the opportunity, lets be honest. You have begun the name-calling.This isn't even a debate, really. Everyone is talking their smack, as you said. So what? That's what we do here, among other things. You know where the front door is, don'tlet it hit you in the ass. ThePatriots are cheaters, their organization is tainted. I will use the term "everyone" loosely, to include everyone but NE homers and huevonkillers (over 99% of the world population). *Everyone* now knows that the Patriots have an asterisk.You are not driving this conversation. When you ask things like, "What other games (other than the ones that have been proven)", or "what other plays did they cheat on?" that is irrelevant. There is enough evidence present for everyone to form an opinon already, without having to turn over every rock. Your questions do nothing to save face for the patriots, but to extend this topic into tangental babble. I tried to make light of it in some cases, and you are clearly taking it too seriously. It is you who needs to grow up. </p>

</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Blackadder, a miami fan/employee should get one of those snowplows and go plow and asterick right in the middle of Gillette Field. That would make me laugh.</div> </p>

Don't give Dale any ideas. LOL? We'd hate to have to have the field resodded yet again. Though, this time there would be an actual valid claim to do "yardwork"</p>

If a Miami fan drives the snowplow, a Raider fan should make surethe driver is properly seated i.e tucked in behind the wheel.rofl</p>

</p>

</div> </p>

I'd love to drive that snowplow, but I don't think I'm qualified. I've never done time and their driver was doing time for burglary. Here's the story about how Patriot fans came to embrace an ex-con and make him a folk herobecause he helped them cheat their way to victory.</p>

http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/20020125foxboro5.asp</p>

</p></div>

Add another asterick.</p>

</p>

 

[quote name='The Return of the Raider'][quote name='huevonkiller'][quote name='The Return of the Raider']

Would anyone object to me picking this guy up by the throat and nailing him to a cross through his skull?</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

Yeah you're an immature brat, I already knew that. You have no argument, you can't even name other calls that went in their favor. You don't even know how to explain how I've been smokescreening this debate. </p>

Yes the tuck rule was BS, but refs being paid off? Some of you people sound like bitter babies, grow up really. I hate the Patriots, but I'm a mature enough person to realize when people are trying to slander others. </p>

I don't care if the Pats cheated or not, but let's see some more concrete evidence arrive. And if it's so obvious they cheated, the Pats should be struggling any day now, right? Heh. </p>

</p>[/QUOTE]

Oh, I was merely asking if anyone would mind. It's not likely that I would ever get the opportunity, lets be honest. You have begun the name-calling.[/Quote]</p>

Um no. </p>

So driving a nail through my skull is a light joke now (and not immature)? Who are you kidding? I'm not going anywhere either, so feel free to depart from this debate. </p>

In my opinion, there isn't nearly as much evidence as you believe, nor have you shown me there is. I've only used facts in this debate, and they tell me you're way out there.</p>

*Everyone* doesn't know jack, and like I said, I don't care about the Patriots either. It means nothing to me if they are tarnished, I just don't see the critical thinking in your posts. You seem like just another hurt fan and you refuse to adequately explain smokescreening, getting "various" calls, paying refs, and such. You create drama over nothing. </p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'>[So driving a nail through my skull is a light joke now (and not immature)? Who are you kidding? I'm not going anywhere either, so feel free to depart from this debate.

In my opinion, there isn't nearly as much evidence as you believe, nor have you shown me there is. I've only used facts in this debate, and they tell me you're way out there.</p>

*Everyone* doesn't know jack, and like I said, I don't care about the Patriots either. It means nothing to me if they are tarnished, I just don't see the critical thinking in your posts. You seem like just another hurt fan and you refuse to adequately explain smokescreening, getting "various" calls, paying refs, and such. You create drama over nothing. </p>

</div> </p>

You can consider it a body piercing - jewelry nowadays. </p>

Robert Goodell has all the evidence that he needed to convict Belichik and the Patsies. They are now officially the biggest cheaters in the NFL, hands down. Just the facts. Whats done is done, and you are behaving like it never even happened. Denial.</p>

I don't need to answer every single scenerio that you come up with off the top of your head, the ones that we are aware of are enough to prove everything. *Everyone* is right, you are wrong. I am hurt by the Patriots violation of the integrity of the game, absolutely. They have been found to be guilty. You don't fine someone $500kand draft picks on speculation or heresay. They have possession of the video, and they let the world know what they did. I have adequately explained this to *everyone*. You don't get it. That's your own fault, not mine. This is not drama over nothing. The evidence of the cheating is sitting on Goodell's desk as we speak. </p>

</p>

</p>

 

HK: Which snowplow? How do you know it wasnt the red snowplow? Got proof? Huh? huh? huh?</p>

HK: Can you prove that they videoed on week 15 of 2005? Oh you can't? You have no proof they video taped anything! The videotape that the commish has is probably all bogus! He just has it out for Belichik! Your whole assumption that they are cheaters is FALSE I tell you!</p>

HK: What drug test? Harrison didn't fail a test in week 10 of 2006! If he didn't fail one last year, he must not be a cheat then! He only cheats nowadays! </p>

HK: The Patriots helmet has the color blue on it? No way! How can you even say that?!?! How do you know that color isn't mixed with some amount of orange? You can't prove it's blue, your accusations are completely baseless! Get out of this debate!</p>

</p>

 

ba bab bab ab aba cry me a river.</p>

The NFL knows about this and did not do anything about it for years and finally they got a chance to show who is the boss by going after one of the most powerful teams in the NFL. The fines are bull shit and worth nothing. Bill uses that kind of amount on new shoes and the Patriots are to rich to give a dam about some small fine of 250.000. Lost 1 of the teams 2 draft picks.</p>

Want to hurt the team and franchise?????</p>

Suspend Bill for 4+ gamesRevoke the team the game against the Jets. Meaning Patriots 0-1 and the Jets 1-0.</p>

Now with Bill gone for half a season and the team on a losing streak no other team would dear to do it. What would happen if the team was 3-0 and the NFL took that away because of cheating. You cheat in like you can get expelled from school (High School, College). Now why on earth is it ok and you get a slap on your hands if you do it in the NFL??? Americas Sports, Americas Game....</p>

Hey and I am a fan of the team in question here as much as anyone that becomes fans of a winning team.</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nflreporterla)</div><div class='quotemain'>

The NFL knows about this and did not do anything about it for years and finally they got a chance to show who is the boss by going after one of the most powerful teams in the NFL.</div></p>

Which then tarnishes Tagliabue's tenure, if that were true. You suggesting that Tags behaved like Bud Selig when compared to the current steroid controversy -bury one's head in the sand. Goodell is not afraid to make a statement, it seems. Bringing this public and making everyone aware is a big step in the right direction, imo. As far as being lenient on the Pats, you can imagine punching them as hard as your outrage would allow you, So everyone's opinion of what the exact punishment will be will vary. With the cat out of the bag, I would hope that the league as well as the teams do due dilligence and actively scanning the stadiums in an effort to curb this thing from here on out. If they do little or nothing in the future, then perhaps the best thing is to just say goodbye, and change the channel to pro wrestling.</p>

</p>

 

Thisone had me laughing...</p>

"Belichick is 55, and even though he's smarter than a fifth grader, he's acting like one. I've been a fan of his work from way, way back, through the post-Browns days when he was considered a classic head coaching washout, and despite his media-repellent ways we've had a good relationship for a long time. I want to see him enjoy the fruits of his labor and the legacy he has earned through hard work and exceptional acumen; I don't want to see him pushing photographers or revoking key cards or, worst of all, getting popped for cheating because he seemingly believed he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, no matter who was watching." </p>

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AqpP...o&type=lgns</p>

</p>

</p>

 

[quote name='The Return of the Raider']

You can consider it a body piercing - jewelry nowadays.[/Quote]</p>

Lol, alright whatever, just don't whine about me "starting the name calling". </p>

</p>

No I'm not. You're behaving like they got caught in the Superbowl.</p>

</p>

What exactly does the evidence prove? </p>

</p>

In a few cases maybe.</p>

</p>

LOL, why do you change the subject all the time? I didn't say the NFL was speculating, I said you don't know jack about the Patriots cheating in the playoffs and such. You've got no case. The Pats could have just as easily cheated in every other game, or only 1/3 of their games, 1/4 their games, etc. The commish said he doesn't think it had too much of an impact, teams also change their signals. More investigating is required, more time needs to pass by before I can see how this scandal affects the Pats. </p>

</p>[quote name='The Return of the Raider']

HK: Which snowplow? How do you know it wasnt the red snowplow? Got proof? Huh? huh? huh?[/Quote]</p>

What a joke post and preteen tactic. </p>

</p>

I questioned the NY incident? </p>

</p>

And if Harrison cheated, how does that in any way prove the Pats were "Feeding their players HGH" or whatever else you said? He cheated on his own accord, that's all anyone knows. </p>

</p>

Can your lame jokes be any more clich&eacute;d? Stop embarrassing yourself. </p>