Eli Manning is not a good quarterback! I don't give a rats behind to what any of you say, because if you're really watching him, and you know the game, then it should be more than obvious that this guy is nowhere near the status of good. No, in fact he's... Scary good. And by scary I mean absolutley frightening. Look, I didn't create this post just so I could play Captain Obvious with some chessey-wit. Obviously, we all knew Eli was good with his level of play last year, during his rookie season. (Hell, we knew it when he was still at Ole Miss.) But good and scary good are two seperate things (in my book anyway.) Scary good was once applied to the likes of Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Farve, etc, etc. When they began to show their true promise early on in their career's. And though Mr. Manning still has quite a road to travel before his career reaches the heights of those mentioned above. What the football world saw from him yesterday, in Philadelphia, was all the makings of what will probably be the "next" truly legendary NFL QB. My God, I realize now just how much I hate him. Yeah, not to mention that I also hate that guy from 'Fox & Friends' he sometimes hands the ball off to. Oh, and let's not forget that one dude who looks like Mike Tyson, the one whose mother makes him eat soup all the time. Yes, I hate these Giant players. Why, you might ask? Because the whole damn organization looks to be scary good over the next few years. This is bad news for the NFC East, which means bad news for the Cowboys. Damn I miss Kerry Collins.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dallascowboysradio)</div><div class='quotemain'>Eli Manning is not a good quarterback! I don't give a rats behind to what any of you say, because if you're really watching him, and you know the game, then it should be more than obvious that this guy is nowhere near the status of good. No, in fact he's... Scary good. And by scary I mean absolutley frightening. Look, I didn't create this post just so I could play Captain Obvious with some chessey-wit. Obviously, we all knew Eli was good with his level of play last year, during his rookie season. (Hell, we knew it when he was still at Ole Miss.) But good and scary good are two seperate things (in my book anyway.) Scary good was once applied to the likes of Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Farve, etc, etc. When they began to show their true promise early on in their career's. And though Mr. Manning still has quite a road to travel before his career reaches the heights of those mentioned above. What the football world saw from him yesterday, in Philadelphia, was all the makings of what will probably be the "next" truly legendary NFL QB. My God, I realize now just how much I hate him. Yeah, not to mention that I also hate that guy from 'Fox & Friends' he sometimes hands the ball off to. Oh, and let's not forget that one dude who looks like Mike Tyson, the one whose mother makes him eat soup all the time. Yes, I hate these Giant players. Why, you might ask? Because the whole damn organization looks to be scary good over the next few years. This is bad news for the NFC East, which means bad news for the Cowboys. Damn I miss Kerry Collins.</div> I couldn't disagree more. What did he show his rookie year?! Less than 50% completion rating?! 52% last season?! I'm sorry completion rating is the most important stat to me for a pro QB. I could care less about the 3700 yards. Yards are an overblown stat to me. I watched that game too and he was not that impressive to me. I understand he completed over 70% of his passes yesterday, but I actually blame the Eagles defense for that. Why they ever stopped bringing the pressure on Eli is beyond me! Because when they were they were killing him. He was off balance and throwing the ball wildly. That last pass was a great move by Burress to catch. Not a credit to Eli. Even on the 1st TD pass to Toomer. Toomer had to come back for that ball. He was so wide open because Michael Lewis blew the coverage so badly. I could've hit Toomer on that play. To me, the Eagles gave the game away. They did some stupid things defensively. I'm sorry, but Eli has a lot to prove to me before I ever give him anything as a pro QB. He gets too much media hype because of his last name and the fact he's in New York. And I don't know why you miss Kerry Collins as a Cowboys fan. Everytime he played the Cowboys, he torched them. All of his career marks seem to have come against the Cowboys. He did that even with the Raiders last season.
I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.</div> He had those numbers last season and those numbers did not make him a good QB. If he can continue to have a high completion % for a few more weeks then I might come on board with him, but as of right now...you guys can have him. Personally, I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the 4 other guys you mentioned. I don't like his decision making either.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.</div> He had those numbers last season and those numbers did not make him a good QB. If he can continue to have a high completion % for a few more weeks then I might come on board with him, but as of right now...you guys can have him. Personally, I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the 4 other guys you mentioned. I don't like his decision making either.</div> From what I've seen from these 2 games he looks more like an experience veteran than a raw up and comer. Last year I saw an up and comer with him and I thought Washington was going to catch the Giants for the division because of that. Losing to Carolina didn't surprise me one bit. This year he looks more poise and I think he throws a better ball. I expect all the numbers you said go up. He's proven he can be clutch. He needs to do it on a consistent basis though. I think he's well on his way to being mention with the guys I mention above. Peyton and Brady are the two best but after that it's fair game. I personally like Carson Palmer a lot but Eli looks like he could have a year like Palmer did last.
When its all said and done, I think Eli will be a very good quarterback. However, I think he's been overrated by many over the last 15 months. Today, if I needed to win a game, there would be a decent list of quarterbacks that I would take before him. Give the kid some time and that may change. He seems smart enough and have enough talent that he can put it together.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dallascowboysradio)</div><div class='quotemain'>Eli Manning is not a good quarterback! I don't give a rats behind to what any of you say, because if you're really watching him, and you know the game, then it should be more than obvious that this guy is nowhere near the status of good. No, in fact he's... Scary good. And by scary I mean absolutley frightening. Look, I didn't create this post just so I could play Captain Obvious with some chessey-wit. Obviously, we all knew Eli was good with his level of play last year, during his rookie season. (Hell, we knew it when he was still at Ole Miss.) But good and scary good are two seperate things (in my book anyway.) Scary good was once applied to the likes of Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Farve, etc, etc. When they began to show their true promise early on in their career's. And though Mr. Manning still has quite a road to travel before his career reaches the heights of those mentioned above. What the football world saw from him yesterday, in Philadelphia, was all the makings of what will probably be the "next" truly legendary NFL QB. My God, I realize now just how much I hate him. Yeah, not to mention that I also hate that guy from 'Fox & Friends' he sometimes hands the ball off to. Oh, and let's not forget that one dude who looks like Mike Tyson, the one whose mother makes him eat soup all the time. Yes, I hate these Giant players. Why, you might ask? Because the whole damn organization looks to be scary good over the next few years. This is bad news for the NFC East, which means bad news for the Cowboys. Damn I miss Kerry Collins.</div> I couldn't disagree more. What did he show his rookie year?! Less than 50% completion rating?! 52% last season?! I'm sorry completion rating is the most important stat to me for a pro QB. I could care less about the 3700 yards. Yards are an overblown stat to me. I watched that game too and he was not that impressive to me. I understand he completed over 70% of his passes yesterday, but I actually blame the Eagles defense for that. Why they ever stopped bringing the pressure on Eli is beyond me! Because when they were they were killing him. He was off balance and throwing the ball wildly. That last pass was a great move by Burress to catch. Not a credit to Eli. Even on the 1st TD pass to Toomer. Toomer had to come back for that ball. He was so wide open because Michael Lewis blew the coverage so badly. I could've hit Toomer on that play. To me, the Eagles gave the game away. They did some stupid things defensively. I'm sorry, but Eli has a lot to prove to me before I ever give him anything as a pro QB. He gets too much media hype because of his last name and the fact he's in New York. And I don't know why you miss Kerry Collins as a Cowboys fan. Everytime he played the Cowboys, he torched them. All of his career marks seem to have come against the Cowboys. He did that even with the Raiders last season.</div> finally we are in agreement.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.</div> He had those numbers last season and those numbers did not make him a good QB. If he can continue to have a high completion % for a few more weeks then I might come on board with him, but as of right now...you guys can have him. Personally, I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the 4 other guys you mentioned. I don't like his decision making either.</div> Yeah its way better to get completion % than any stat. I totally agree. Throw it 1 yard, and get the completion, you should never risk throwing it down field. Besides any QB who starts with low completion % in his career is bound to fail miserably. It is ridiculous to think that a player who has started over 20 games is at anything other than his peak. Yards are totally over rated. A QB throwing for a lot of yards doesnt help a team win, whats it really accomplish other than moving his team towards the goal line. And TD passes? Sure he had most in NFC, but what does that really mean other than his WR caught it in the end zone, and his team got points. So overrated. I dont even know why they track any stat except completion %. Lots of 2nd year QBs lead their teams to division titles, while leading thier conference in TD passes. That means nothing without the completion %. I would rather have a QB complete 65% of his passes in ball control offense for 2000 yards and 10 tds, than one who threw for 3700 and 25 tds, while only completing 52%. Its all about the completion % and i cant stress that enough.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.</div> He had those numbers last season and those numbers did not make him a good QB. If he can continue to have a high completion % for a few more weeks then I might come on board with him, but as of right now...you guys can have him. Personally, I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the 4 other guys you mentioned. I don't like his decision making either.</div> Yeah its way better to get completion % than any stat. I totally agree. Throw it 1 yard, and get the completion, you should never risk throwing it down field. Besides any QB who starts with low completion % in his career is bound to fail miserably. It is ridiculous to think that a player who has started over 20 games is at anything other than his peak. Yards are totally over rated. A QB throwing for a lot of yards doesnt help a team win, whats it really accomplish other than moving his team towards the goal line. And TD passes? Sure he had most in NFC, but what does that really mean other than his WR caught it in the end zone, and his team got points. So overrated. I dont even know why they track any stat except completion %. Lots of 2nd year QBs lead their teams to division titles, while leading thier conference in TD passes. That means nothing without the completion %. I would rather have a QB complete 65% of his passes in ball control offense for 2000 yards and 10 tds, than one who threw for 3700 and 25 tds, while only completing 52%. Its all about the completion % and i cant stress that enough.</div> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Stats dont matter. It matters if they win and what happened last year? Lets see Bledsoe had a completion % of 60 while Eli had around 52%. hmmm i wonder which one led their team to the playoffs?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think Eli Manning is the real deal. A lot of people thought he only went #1 because of his last name but this guy is for real. He shows great poise and his physical traits are as good as you can get. I thought the Giants would struggle this year but because of the play of Eli, I think N.Y. repeats as division champion. Manning in my opinion is well on his way to become a top 5 QB in the NFL, with Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, and Ben Roelisberger. He played solid against the Colts and really lead the Giants comeback yesterday. Next week they play Seattle and I think they have an outside chance because of Eli Manning. He's emerging as top QB and I realistically could see a 25+ TD and 3500+ yard year out of him this year.</div> He had those numbers last season and those numbers did not make him a good QB. If he can continue to have a high completion % for a few more weeks then I might come on board with him, but as of right now...you guys can have him. Personally, I don't think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the 4 other guys you mentioned. I don't like his decision making either.</div> Yeah its way better to get completion % than any stat. I totally agree. Throw it 1 yard, and get the completion, you should never risk throwing it down field. Besides any QB who starts with low completion % in his career is bound to fail miserably. It is ridiculous to think that a player who has started over 20 games is at anything other than his peak. Yards are totally over rated. A QB throwing for a lot of yards doesnt help a team win, whats it really accomplish other than moving his team towards the goal line. And TD passes? Sure he had most in NFC, but what does that really mean other than his WR caught it in the end zone, and his team got points. So overrated. I dont even know why they track any stat except completion %. Lots of 2nd year QBs lead their teams to division titles, while leading thier conference in TD passes. That means nothing without the completion %. I would rather have a QB complete 65% of his passes in ball control offense for 2000 yards and 10 tds, than one who threw for 3700 and 25 tds, while only completing 52%. Its all about the completion % and i cant stress that enough.</div> Great sarcasm...keep making yourself look like a jackass....yards can be overrated. Vinny Testeverde is one of the all time yardage leaders...you want put him up there as one of the best QBs in the game? The same with Drew Bledsoe. Is he one of the best ever? Have they always had winning teams? I forget how many Super Bowls do they have? Warren Moon has a ton of yards....any Super Bowls? Marino? I never said a thing about TDs being overrated either. Let's not forget Eli had a 1600 yard rusher on his team last season. Completion % is huge. I don't care how you feel about it. 3700 yards and what could his stats have been if his completion % was higher. I thought it was common sense that QBs in the NFL don't keep throwing 1-5 yard passes over and over again. I didn't think that needed to be said, but evidentally I was wrong. Obviously, yards mean something, but they are overrated and history shows that. When's the last time a 4,000 yard passer won a Super Bowl? Rich Gannon was the last one to even make it to a Super Bowl. The last one Roethlisberger threw for 2300 yards last season. A bad completion % means that there are a ton of missed opportunities for your athletes to make plays. Tieing for the lead in the NFC in TD passes doesn't mean anything to me. There isn't a QB in the NFC that I would consider elite. What about being tied for 2nd in the NFC for interceptions? What about having a lower QB rating than Dilfer, Carr and even Kelly Holcomb? Only two players who started at least 10 games in the NFL last season had a worse completion %. Like I said before...incomplete passes are missed opportunities. Obviously, since I must now state the obvious, teams aren't going to continuously throw short passes just for the sake of completion %. Eli missed open receivers several times last season. I watched at least 6-10 Giants games last season and I was not impressed. He just chunks the ball up into the middle of the field when he's under pressure like he's hoping to get lucky. It's the same thing that people criticize Brett Favre for today and for some reason ignore that Eli still does it. The td pass to win the game was a chunk up that Burress made a great play on because he had a bad cb covering him in Sheldon Brown. Eli has a lot to prove to me before I would even consider him in the same breath as Peyton or Palmer or even Roethlisberger. If he can keep up what he's done so far for a few more weeks then I might buy into him. But I'm not even close right now.
[quote name='cubuffsman78']Great sarcasm...keep making yourself look like a jackass....[/quote] Dont mind if i do. [quote name='cubuffsman78']yards can be overrated. Vinny Testeverde is one of the all time yardage leaders...you want put him up there as one of the best QBs in the game? The same with Drew Bledsoe. Is he one of the best ever? Have they always had winning teams? I forget how many Super Bowls do they have? Warren Moon has a ton of yards....any Super Bowls? Marino?[/quote] You just listed some of the most sucessful QBs in NFL history. Nice defense for your point. I guess they were bad but got to start longer than almost every other QB in nfl history despite that. 2 of them are HOFers. [quote name='cubuffsman78']Completion % is huge. I don't care how you feel about it. 3700 yards and what could his stats have been if his completion % was higher.[/quote] A little. Not what you are making it out to be. [quote name='cubuffsman78']I thought it was common sense that QBs in the NFL don't keep throwing 1-5 yard passes over and over again. I didn't think that needed to be said, but evidentally I was wrong.[/quote] Hyperbole - look it up, goes great with sarcasm [quote name='cubuffsman78']Obviously, yards mean something, but they are overrated and history shows that. When's the last time a 4,000 yard passer won a Super Bowl?[/quote] 4000 season they won it? Kurt Warner did it in '99 Farve did it also ( though i contend he cheated ), Brady was extremely close to that total for his last 2. 3600 for both. [quote name='cubuffsman78']Rich Gannon was the last one to even make it to a Super Bowl. The last one Roethlisberger threw for 2300 yards last season.[/quote] Who said that other styles of football didnt win super bowls also? [quote name='cubuffsman78']A bad completion % means that there are a ton of missed opportunities for your athletes to make plays.[/quote] Uh - huh, he did give his atheletes the oppertunity to make 3700 yards in plays, despite his bad completion %. Oh wait when you think about it like that it completely negates your argument, ignore this so you can continue your rant. [quote name='cubuffsman78']Tieing for the lead in the NFC in TD passes doesn't mean anything to me.[/quote] I guess putting his atheletes in the position to score the most means nothing, or does scoring not constitute a play, oh wait, i just destroyed your argument again, skip post, move on. [quote name='cubuffsman78']There isn't a QB in the NFC that I would consider elite. What about being tied for 2nd in the NFC for interceptions? What about having a lower QB rating than Dilfer, Carr and even Kelly Holcomb? Only two players who started at least 10 games in the NFL last season had a worse completion %.[/quote] the players you just listed didnt make playoffs. Oh wait winnng only counts when it helps your argument, ignore this to, i want you to think you are doing well. [quote name='cubuffsman78']Like I said before...incomplete passes are missed opportunities.[/quote] See about and ignore again [quote name='cubuffsman78']Obviously, since I must now state the obvious,[/quote] Obviously [quote name='cubuffsman78']teams aren't going to continuously throw short passes just for the sake of completion %. Eli missed open receivers several times last season. I watched at least 6-10 Giants games last season and I was not impressed. He just chunks the ball up into the middle of the field when he's under pressure like he's hoping to get lucky.[/quote] Apparently he is the luckiest QB in the NFC. [quote name='cubuffsman78']It's the same thing that people criticize Brett Favre for today and for some reason ignore that Eli still does it. The td pass to win the game was a chunk up that Burress made a great play on because he had a bad cb covering him in Sheldon Brown. Eli has a lot to prove to me before I would even consider him in the same breath as Peyton or Palmer or even Roethlisberger. If he can keep up what he's done so far for a few more weeks then I might buy into him. But I'm not even close right now.[/quote] I am sure that he is dying for your praise.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>There isn't a QB in the NFC that I would consider elite.</div> No? What about the one QB who holds the league record for most consecutive seasons with a minimum 60% completion %? Just so you know, I am a fan of the comp. % stat as well, and that is what makes Brad Johnson one of the most underrated QBs in the last decade. The guy wins football games and completes passes.
You negated none of my arguments...if anything you strengthened them or took them out of context... The only thing saving you from my complete hate is that you have Sweetness as your avatar.... Sorry for the jackass remark...usually I'm not this irritable, but a guy from another forum has put me in a terrible mood...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>There isn't a QB in the NFC that I would consider elite.</div> No? What about the one QB who holds the league record for most consecutive seasons with a minimum 60% completion %? Just so you know, I am a fan of the comp. % stat as well, and that is what makes Brad Johnson one of the most underrated QBs in the last decade. The guy wins football games and completes passes.</div> Still, you have to judge QB on all the stats. TD % is very important, Yards are important, INT % is important, and so is completion percentage. When you look at them as a whole, you get a picture of the QBs abilities. EDIT: I see eli actually has a 66% comp rate this year a 101 rating. I guess you could judge career as whole, but he obviously is better than last year, he is young and getting better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>You negated none of my arguments...if anything you strengthened them or took them out of context...</div> Elaborate. I realize you can make blanket statement like this if you cant defend any of my points, which is what i think you are doing. Prove me wrong, what did i take out of context, and how did i strengthen your arguments?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>You negated none of my arguments...if anything you strengthened them or took them out of context...</div> Elaborate. I realize you can make blanket statement like this if you cant defend any of my points, which is what i think you are doing. Prove me wrong, what did i take out of context, and how did i strengthen your arguments?</div> To start with....we both have made points that backups both of our arguments. It's simply a matter of opinion on Eli Manning and there are results and stats that backup both of our feelings about the completion % importance. I didn't deny that Marino or Moon were great QBs, but I asked about Super Bowls. Testaverde and Bledsoe are not two of the best QBs in the history of the NFL. There is one thing these 4 guys had over Eli...a good completion %. You did ignore the fact that Eli had a bunch of bad stats to go with his 3700 yards and 24 Tds. So he gave people a lot of points in fantasy leagues? Great! His decision making was still suspect despite the nice yardage and td totals. Is it impressive that he got those totals despite his bad completion %? Yes it is...but it also tells me that he missed a lot of opportunities for even more yardage. He needed 557 pass attempts to get those totals though. His brother needed 100 fewer attempts to reach the same numbers that he had. Carson Palmer needed 50 less attempts to top his marks. There is definitely no argument that both Palmer and Peyton are better than Eli. What about Drew Bledsoe? He had 100 fewer yards than Eli and 1 td less than Eli. Yet he had over 50 fewer attempts than Eli. That's two games worth. Eli is the only QB to throw over 500 times last season and not complete even 300 of those passes. The only other player who was close to 500 attempts last season and wouldn't have completed 300 of those passes would've been Gus Frerotte. I'm simply stating that Eli missed on a lot of opportunities with his low completion %. The ball sailed on him religiously last season and everytime he's under pressure he just throws it up. I wouldn't call the td pass to Burress to win the game lucky. It was more of a nice play by Burress than it was a nice pass by Eli. But all he did was give his playmaker a chance to make plays so I have no argument there then. It would be one thing if I was basing all of this on that one stat, but I'm not. I'm basing it on what I saw of him last year. I couldn't figure out why the media loved him so much as a great QB last year, when he would look so bad during games. He had flashes of when he looked brilliant, but I want more than flashes. This is one of the reasons I don't really care for Vick either. There are things about him that have been impressive. I tend to focus on what doesn't impress me though and his decision making and shakiness in the pocket last year, not to mention through most of the game against the Eagles, hasn't impressed me at all. Oh and don't ever think I can't backup something I argue or think. I'm not afraid to argue and I'm not ashamed to admit when I think I've been proved wrong. There are times when I think it's pointless and arbitrary. We will end up going back and forth proving our points when both of us have evidence to support our points. But that's football....there is no true formula for success....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>You negated none of my arguments...if anything you strengthened them or took them out of context...</div> Elaborate. I realize you can make blanket statement like this if you cant defend any of my points, which is what i think you are doing. Prove me wrong, what did i take out of context, and how did i strengthen your arguments?</div> To start with....we both have made points that backups both of our arguments. It's simply a matter of opinion on Eli Manning and there are results and stats that backup both of our feelings about the completion % importance. I didn't deny that Marino or Moon were great QBs, but I asked about Super Bowls. Testaverde and Bledsoe are not two of the best QBs in the history of the NFL. There is one thing these 4 guys had over Eli...a good completion %. You did ignore the fact that Eli had a bunch of bad stats to go with his 3700 yards and 24 Tds. So he gave people a lot of points in fantasy leagues? Great! His decision making was still suspect despite the nice yardage and td totals. Is it impressive that he got those totals despite his bad completion %? Yes it is...but it also tells me that he missed a lot of opportunities for even more yardage. He needed 557 pass attempts to get those totals though. His brother needed 100 fewer attempts to reach the same numbers that he had. Carson Palmer needed 50 less attempts to top his marks. There is definitely no argument that both Palmer and Peyton are better than Eli. What about Drew Bledsoe? He had 100 fewer yards than Eli and 1 td less than Eli. Yet he had over 50 fewer attempts than Eli. That's two games worth. Eli is the only QB to throw over 500 times last season and not complete even 300 of those passes. The only other player who was close to 500 attempts last season and wouldn't have completed 300 of those passes would've been Gus Frerotte. I'm simply stating that Eli missed on a lot of opportunities with his low completion %. The ball sailed on him religiously last season and everytime he's under pressure he just throws it up. I wouldn't call the td pass to Burress to win the game lucky. It was more of a nice play by Burress than it was a nice pass by Eli. But all he did was give his playmaker a chance to make plays so I have no argument there then. It would be one thing if I was basing all of this on that one stat, but I'm not. I'm basing it on what I saw of him last year. I couldn't figure out why the media loved him so much as a great QB last year, when he would look so bad during games. He had flashes of when he looked brilliant, but I want more than flashes. This is one of the reasons I don't really care for Vick either. There are things about him that have been impressive. I tend to focus on what doesn't impress me though and his decision making and shakiness in the pocket last year, not to mention through most of the game against the Eagles, hasn't impressed me at all. Oh and don't ever think I can't backup something I argue or think. I'm not afraid to argue and I'm not ashamed to admit when I think I've been proved wrong. There are times when I think it's pointless and arbitrary. We will end up going back and forth proving our points when both of us have evidence to support our points. But that's football....there is no true formula for success....</div> Why do I have the feeling that if Eli was on this guys preffered team then it would be a total 180. Bearsfan1 totally took everything you said and used it against you, so what do you respond with? "we both made strong arguments" No, you really did not. Your argument is this: Eli has a low Completion %, he is a horible quarterback and even though he has led his team through 3 comebacks in the 4th quarter in his short career, that accounts to nothing as well..? Everyones argument with ATLEAST half a brain: Eli Manning is a winner, threw the most TD's in the NFC last year, and led a team into the playoffs in his second year of playing. How are you going to use tiki barber being a great running back as a bad thing? "He had a 1600 yard rusher last year" Yep ladies and gentleman if yur quarterback has some help on teh ground all of a sudden he isn't a good quarterback. So I guess Peyton Manning(in previous years), Carson Palmer, Matt Hassleback, and Tom Brady are all average quarterbacks because their running backs have good seasons? Where is the sense in that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'>You negated none of my arguments...if anything you strengthened them or took them out of context... The only thing saving you from my complete hate is that you have Sweetness as your avatar.... Sorry for the jackass remark...usually I'm not this irritable, but a guy from another forum has put me in a terrible mood...</div> Mikey For his 2nd season make no mistake Eli played very well. So far this year in my opinion he looks like a completely different QB. Last year you still saw a QB who could drop back and make a mistake from time to time. He looked raw and inexperienced last year which he was. This year he looks the part and has done it against 2 pretty good teams. (although Philly is getting some pity love in my opinion). He looks very good and I think by the end of the year he might be the best QB in that division. Right now I would rate him in the top 10 probably. It's early but Manning has tremendous upside and I can't help but think of Carson Palmer of last year when I watch him play this year or even a young Brett Favre. Right now though only Donovan McNabb and Rex Grossman are playing better than Eli Manning in the NFC. I?d probably take McNabb over him as of now and Hasselback. Jury is still out on Grossman in my opinion but he looks good so far. Outside of Hasselback and McNabb, I can?t think of a better QB in the NFC. In the AFC you have Brady, Manning, Palmer, Roelisberger and then a bunch of guys who I would put in the same league as Eli Manning. I think he?s for real and I expect him to keep it up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giantsfan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Elaborate. I realize you can make blanket statement like this if you cant defend any of my points, which is what i think you are doing. Prove me wrong, what did i take out of context, and how did i strengthen your arguments?</div> To start with....we both have made points that backups both of our arguments. It's simply a matter of opinion on Eli Manning and there are results and stats that backup both of our feelings about the completion % importance. I didn't deny that Marino or Moon were great QBs, but I asked about Super Bowls. Testaverde and Bledsoe are not two of the best QBs in the history of the NFL. There is one thing these 4 guys had over Eli...a good completion %. You did ignore the fact that Eli had a bunch of bad stats to go with his 3700 yards and 24 Tds. So he gave people a lot of points in fantasy leagues? Great! His decision making was still suspect despite the nice yardage and td totals. Is it impressive that he got those totals despite his bad completion %? Yes it is...but it also tells me that he missed a lot of opportunities for even more yardage. He needed 557 pass attempts to get those totals though. His brother needed 100 fewer attempts to reach the same numbers that he had. Carson Palmer needed 50 less attempts to top his marks. There is definitely no argument that both Palmer and Peyton are better than Eli. What about Drew Bledsoe? He had 100 fewer yards than Eli and 1 td less than Eli. Yet he had over 50 fewer attempts than Eli. That's two games worth. Eli is the only QB to throw over 500 times last season and not complete even 300 of those passes. The only other player who was close to 500 attempts last season and wouldn't have completed 300 of those passes would've been Gus Frerotte. I'm simply stating that Eli missed on a lot of opportunities with his low completion %. The ball sailed on him religiously last season and everytime he's under pressure he just throws it up. I wouldn't call the td pass to Burress to win the game lucky. It was more of a nice play by Burress than it was a nice pass by Eli. But all he did was give his playmaker a chance to make plays so I have no argument there then. It would be one thing if I was basing all of this on that one stat, but I'm not. I'm basing it on what I saw of him last year. I couldn't figure out why the media loved him so much as a great QB last year, when he would look so bad during games. He had flashes of when he looked brilliant, but I want more than flashes. This is one of the reasons I don't really care for Vick either. There are things about him that have been impressive. I tend to focus on what doesn't impress me though and his decision making and shakiness in the pocket last year, not to mention through most of the game against the Eagles, hasn't impressed me at all. Oh and don't ever think I can't backup something I argue or think. I'm not afraid to argue and I'm not ashamed to admit when I think I've been proved wrong. There are times when I think it's pointless and arbitrary. We will end up going back and forth proving our points when both of us have evidence to support our points. But that's football....there is no true formula for success....</div> Why do I have the feeling that if Eli was on this guys preffered team then it would be a total 180. Bearsfan1 totally took everything you said and used it against you, so what do you respond with? "we both made strong arguments" No, you really did not. Your argument is this: Eli has a low Completion %, he is a horible quarterback and even though he has led his team through 3 comebacks in the 4th quarter in his short career, that accounts to nothing as well..? Everyones argument with ATLEAST half a brain: Eli Manning is a winner, threw the most TD's in the NFC last year, and led a team into the playoffs in his second year of playing. How are you going to use tiki barber being a great running back as a bad thing? "He had a 1600 yard rusher last year" Yep ladies and gentleman if yur quarterback has some help on teh ground all of a sudden he isn't a good quarterback. So I guess Peyton Manning(in previous years), Carson Palmer, Matt Hassleback, and Tom Brady are all average quarterbacks because their running backs have good seasons? Where is the sense in that?</div> Great job on not knowing me... I will openly cricize the QB on my preferred team anytime. I'm not a homer. I wouldn't expect a Giants fan to understand why I don't like a QB. If everyone on this forum feels like Eli is all world then so be it. Until he shows me more, he doesn't get that status from me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dallascowboysradio)</div><div class='quotemain'>Eli Manning is not a good quarterback! I don't give a rats behind to what any of you say, because if you're really watching him, and you know the game, then it should be more than obvious that this guy is nowhere near the status of good. No, in fact he's... Scary good. And by scary I mean absolutley frightening. Look, I didn't create this post just so I could play Captain Obvious with some chessey-wit. Obviously, we all knew Eli was good with his level of play last year, during his rookie season. (Hell, we knew it when he was still at Ole Miss.) But good and scary good are two seperate things (in my book anyway.) Scary good was once applied to the likes of Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Farve, etc, etc. When they began to show their true promise early on in their career's. And though Mr. Manning still has quite a road to travel before his career reaches the heights of those mentioned above. What the football world saw from him yesterday, in Philadelphia, was all the makings of what will probably be the "next" truly legendary NFL QB. My God, I realize now just how much I hate him. Yeah, not to mention that I also hate that guy from 'Fox & Friends' he sometimes hands the ball off to. Oh, and let's not forget that one dude who looks like Mike Tyson, the one whose mother makes him eat soup all the time. Yes, I hate these Giant players. Why, you might ask? Because the whole damn organization looks to be scary good over the next few years. This is bad news for the NFC East, which means bad news for the Cowboys. Damn I miss Kerry Collins.</div> I see someone has been drinking the New York sports Kool aid. I don't know what your definition of scary good is. My defination of scary good is winning 3 strait Superbowls, and 3 MVP awards until he does that, he's just another over hyped New York athlete.
