Re: Tomlinson: [quote name='huevonkiller'][quote name='BearsFan1'][quote name='huevonkiller'][quote name='Mamba']I think it's too obvious of an impact this had on games. They call Bill the master of halftime adjustments for a reason, it makes sense, now. [/QUOTE] Alright, if the Patriots really fall off the face of the planet in the next few years, I might concur. </p>[/QUOTE] No one is saying cheating takes you from worst team to best. Simply saying it takes you from borderline playoff contender to super bowl champs. Falling of the face of the earth is just a way for you to make sure no one can take them down. You can say "see they still made the playoffs" and justify thier loss this time as just not being good enough. Also, you are still standing on the leg they only cheated one way. I would say they probably cheat several ways. I will list of some</p> 1: HGH - still mostly undecteable.</p> 2. Stealing signs with video cameras</p> 3. Stealing playbooks from other teams with targeted free agent acquisitions. I would go as far as to say i dont think it is a coincidence that they targetted someone on the ravens D to help thier team. Probably offered him a little extra for him to copy his playbook.</p> 4. Paying refs. Tuck rule. Enough said.</p> 5. Artificially manipulating playing environment. You know they doctor thier field. </p> </p> [/QUOTE]</p> Borderline playoff contender? I'd say it makes a Superbowl contender into a Superbowl winner, remember, the Patriots have a bunch of talent so please stop exaggerating. And this is assuming they have cheated.</p> 1. This applies to every team.</p> 2. In what games? You know nothing.</p> 3. What are you talking about? Source?</p> 4. That was just a terrible call. Source? </p> 5. They can do what they want to their field, that's not against the rules.</p> </p> And you quickly came to this conclusion based on the littlest bit of information... </p>[/QUOTE] First, I want to wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of the patriots media relations job. </p> Second, now you are saying it takes super bowl contender to super bowl winner, but they have to fall off face of the earth for it to be proved that cheating made a difference? Thanks for agreeing that you were only saying that so your patriots couldnt be held accountable for all of thier cheating. </p> HGH isnt like apples to other teams. Regardless if it was, it doesnt justify patriots cheating. </p> The fact the jets knew the cameraman would be there to alert NFL security, indicates they have been doing this since EM was working for BB in NE. </p> It has been indicated before several dolphins games that patriots knew the dolphins calls going into the game from some of the FA that the patriots signed from dolphins. These players were given good contracts (better than thier talent) and then helped the patriots repeatedly stick it to dolphins. Getting caught cheating the other way lends credence to these charges</p> The fact their is always some ref coming in and making the call the patriots need anytime their is anything even close to the call they need, combined with them getting caught cheating in other ways certainly validates this suspicion. Also, the donaghy incident proves officials are certainly not untouchable.</p> the patriots are not allowed to do whatever they want to thier field. They cant go spray it down with water cuz they want a muddy field. You cant use a snow plow before a kick. Blatant cheating as thier ever was.</p> </p>
Re: Tomlinson: Anybody else find LT's comments a little ironic? Didn't two of his teammates get busted for steroids over the past couple years? People are going overboard with these allegations. I mean its clear the Patriots were cheating, but the only thing we know without a doubt is that they were cheating during the Jets game. Everything else is speculation at this point. I mean, you go as far as you want with it, but in the end you need to recognize that you're just guessing. They could've cheated their way to 4 Super Bowls. But they just as likely could have only been using this tape after the game to study their opponents. Or maybe Bill Belichek just finds Eric Mangini attractive and wanted the video for "personal uses"? The point is we don't know enough to say that one is more true than the other. </p>
Re: Tomlinson: [quote name='BearsFan1'] First, I want to wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of the patriots media relations job.[/Quote]</p> Uh no thanks, I hate the Patriots. Instead, congratulate me on my common sense. </p> </p> You have to be kidding me, why are they my Patriots all of a sudden? I just realized how presumptuous some of your ideas are. </p> And I was being facetious when I said "fall of the face of the Earth".The Patriots will get exposed if they go 8-8, 9-7 these next few seasons.</p> </p> Lol what? And? What is your point? </p> </p> The Pats were caught in Green Bay before, there you have it. You know nothing. The Pats could have done it a couple of other times, but not automatically in every single game.</p> </p> Getting tips from former players is not cheating.</p> </p> What calls are you talking about? I only recall one tuck rule going in their favor and how does that prove the ref was payed off? You have few facts.</p> I lol'd at the Donaghy reference, that was the NBA. The FBI did not mention the NFL and no one knows what goes on with refs and how they help teams win. </p> Well if I remember correctly, I thought it was perfectly legal to do what they want to their field. Either way, both teams play on the same field. Some of these other incidents you bring up are minor as well. Really, how many times have they used a snow plow? </p>
Re: Tomlinson: [quote name='huevonkiller'][quote name='BearsFan1'] First, I want to wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of the patriots media relations job.[/Quote]</p> Uh no thanks, I hate the Patriots. Instead, congratulate me on my common sense.</p> </p> You have to be kidding me, why are they my Patriots all of a sudden? I just realized how presumptuous some of your ideas are. </p> And I was being facetious when I said "fall of the face of the Earth".The Patriots will get exposed if they go 8-8, 9-7 these next few seasons.</p> </p> Lol what? And? What is your point? </p> </p> The Pats were caught in Green Bay before, there you have it. You know nothing. The Pats could have done it a couple of other times, but not automatically in every single game.</p> </p> Getting tips from former players is not cheating.</p> </p> What calls are you talking about? I only recall one tuck rule going in their favor and how does that prove the ref was payed off? You have few facts.</p> I lol'd at the Donaghy reference, that was the NBA. The FBI did not mention the NFL and no one knows what goes on with refs and how they help teams win. </p> Well if I remember correctly, I thought it was perfectly legal to do what they want to their field. Either way, both teams play on the same field. Some of these other incidents you bring up are minor as well. Really, how many times have they used a snow plow? </p>[/QUOTE] Right. Your not a patriots fan, just thier biggest defender. Maybe you just like to argue the point beyond the passion of even the most devout fan, or maybe you realize your bias to pats is so great that you admitted you were a fan everyone would just dismiss your point. Either way, your follow just agreed with all my original posts, so thank you for going around in a circle twice and agreeing with me. I do appreciate it. I accept your apology.</p>
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps this is why Belicheck was so adament that Mangini not take the Jets job but was so supportive of Weis to ND and Crennell to Cleveland....BB knew he had to see Mangini twice a year and either play it straight or risk getting exposed....I cant wait for the league to untangle this a bit so we can find out how deep it goes....</div> </p> Good point. Who needs soap operas or reality TV when we have the NFL? lol</p> To think, Terrell has been quite.............so far.</p> </p>
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Right. Your not a patriots fan, just thier biggest defender. Maybe you just like to argue the point beyond the passion of even the most devout fan, or maybe you realize your bias to pats is so great that you admitted you were a fan everyone would just dismiss your point.</div></p> Actually, it's quite easy to prove I'm not a Patriots fan, because I voiced my displeasure for them on JBB a bunch of times. Ask Mamba or anyone else that recalls me saying I don't like Brady, NE, etc.</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p> Either way, your follow just agreed with all my original posts, so thank you for going around in a circle twice and agreeing with me. I do appreciate it. I accept your apology.</p> </div></p> Um no I didn't agree with your original posts, do you know how to read? Do I agree with you about the refs, or Hgh? No. Or is this opposite day or something? LMAO, what the hell kind of tactic is that? </p> Do you even have any circumstantial evidence to support these ideas you have about the refs and such? They get one good call and all of a sudden the refs are always out to help them. No one knows what the hell you mean by going around in circles. How have I done this?</p>
Re: Tomlinson: If they did find substantial evidence that the Patriots were blatantly cheating, I think Mr Bill Belichek should be banned from the league for the rest of his life.
Re: Tomlinson: If the Patriots are suddenly not as good the next three weeks, you guys may have a point. Until then, your comments are really laughable.
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'>Brian, Barry Bonds experienced an unprecedented growth in Slugging/OBP/OPS and such after 35 (and he was never close to these stats before). It is more than obvious he cheated especially with his grand jury testimony and Game of Shadows. There is not nearly as much evidence in the Patriots' case. </p> </div> </p> </p> the Patriots entered a span of unprecedented success not unlike Barry Bonds....the Patriots had never had anywhere near the success they had with Belicheck starting in 2001 and Belicheck had never had success like this before.....you put a failing coach with a 6th round QB and turn into the model dynasty? that smells just as fishy as Bonds ridiculous numbers....</p> </p></div> The difference is that the Pats were entering their prime, whereas Bonds was a 37 year old who hit 73 homeruns. It's a bad comparison, and if the Patriots continue to win and reach AFC Championships, it will make some people look silly. </p> </div></p> There is only suspcion, heresay, illegally leaked courtroom testimony (over a chemical that was not being tested for), and ZERO action taken by major league baseball regarding Barry Bonds. There is definitive PROOF that the Patriots were cheating, AND they were punished by the league. I am not going to stand up for Bonds, and I am not saying he did something one way or another. For you to say that Bonds cheating is *more* obvious than the Patriots cheating is completely insane. If you get caught with a camera, and you fail a drug test, that is 800% more credible than accusing someone of taking steroids when they never failed a drug test. You may want to rethink your logic here.</p> </p>
Re: Tomlinson: For what it's worth, the Patriots are very good at scoring on their first drive. Also, I'd like to point out that last season during the AFC championship game against the Colts, the Patriots offense, which did very well in the first half, completely fell apart during the second half.
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JfizzleRaider)</div><div class='quotemain'>If they did find substantial evidence that the Patriots were blatantly cheating, I think Mr Bill Belichek should be banned from the league for the rest of his life.</div> The reason why the Patriots only received a small fine relative to their yearly income is because this form of cheating is supposedly common in the NFL. Teams steal signals all the time. The Patriots were dumb enough to try to videotape it. </p>
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'> There is only suspcion, heresay, illegally leaked courtroom testimony (over a chemical that was not being tested for), and ZERO action taken by major league baseball regarding Barry Bonds. There is definitive PROOF that the Patriots were cheating, AND they were punished by the league. I am not going to stand up for Bonds, and I am not saying he did something one way or another. For you to say that Bonds cheating is *more* obvious than the Patriots cheating is completely insane. If you get caught with a camera, and you fail a drug test, that is 800% more credible than accusing someone of taking steroids when they never failed a drug test. You may want to rethink your logic here.</div></p> I don't have to rethink anything.</p> The cheating in the Patriot's case is definitive in only a couple of cases. Other then that, what do you have? </p> The impact Bonds' cheating had on his stats is empirically noticeable, whereas no one can figure out how much impact video taping a sideline can have. Further, if the Pats continue to win, it would diminish the significance of Videogate.</p> </p>
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'> I don't have to rethink anything.</p> The cheating in the Patriot's case is definitive in only a couple of cases. Other then that, what do you have? </p> The impact Bonds' cheating had on his stats is empirically noticeable, whereas no one can figure out how much impact video taping a sideline can have. Further, if the Pats continue to win, it would diminish the significance of Videogate.</p> </p></div> </p> Oh yes, you do. You are comparing 2 open and shut cases vs. someone who is still in the "being accused" phase. The Patriots cheated, and its been proven, handled, and delivered. Bonds has alibi's. However weak Bond's alibi's are, they are still alibi's, and he is uninterrupted in his career. The Patriots have no alibi, and Goodell brought the hammer down on them.
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'> I don't have to rethink anything.</p> The cheating in the Patriot's case is definitive in only a couple of cases. Other then that, what do you have? </p> The impact Bonds' cheating had on his stats is empirically noticeable, whereas no one can figure out how much impact video taping a sideline can have. Further, if the Pats continue to win, it would diminish the significance of Videogate.</p> </p></div> </p> Oh yes, you do. You are comparing 2 open and shut cases vs. someone who is still in the "being accused" phase. The Patriots cheated, and its been proven, handled, and delivered. Bonds has alibi's. However weak Bond's alibi's are, they are still alibi's, and he is uninterrupted in his career. The Patriots have no alibi, and Goodell brought the hammer down on them. </div></p> So you think Bonds is innocent then? I don't have to reconsider anything, there isn't even "reasonable doubt" about what Bonds did. Bonds did admit to accidently injesting steroids and a Balco chemist reported that he knew Bonds was on the program.</p> And speaking of "open and shut" you don't even know how much of an advantage the Pats got (yet you have so much conviction, so you're contradicting yourself), whereas it is clearly obvious Balco's designer steroids impacted baseball. Bonds won four straight MVPs in his late 30's because of the cream and clear. </p>
Re: Tomlinson: You failed to read and comprehend my last post. I'm not going to repeat it for you, and please don't put words in my mouth. Bonds has yet to face any interruption to his career for the things that he "allegedly" did. I don't have to know any of the details or extent of Harrison's HGH, or the Cameraman's two known games that he taped in, Roger Goodell and the league are "on the case". I should say they were, because they have already reviewed and handed out punishments. They cheated, their organization is tarnished, no matter how much or how little impact that *you* think it has. The cases were opened, the evidence of Patriot cheating was there, and the league acted swiftly on it. I am fully aware of how steroids and HGH impacts all professional sports. Bonds was never tested positive and therefore the huge gap between "open and shut" case and "suspicion" of something (no matter how strong the suspicion is, still suspicion).</p> </p>
Re: Tomlinson: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'> You failed to read and comprehend my last post. I'm not going to repeat it for you, and please don't put words in my mouth. Bonds has yet to face any interruption to his career for the things that he "allegedly" did. I don't have to know any of the details or extent of Harrison's HGH, or the Cameraman's two known games that he taped in, Roger Goodell and the league are "on the case". I should say they were, because they have already reviewed and handed out punishments. They cheated, their organization is tarnished, no matter how much or how little impact that *you* think it has. The cases were opened, the evidence of Patriot cheating was there, and the league acted swiftly on it. I am fully aware of how steroids and HGH impacts all professional sports. Bonds was never tested positive and therefore the huge gap between "open and shut" case and "suspicion" of something (no matter how strong the suspicion is, still suspicion).</p> </p></div> No I understood your post quite well. It is known for certain the Patriots cheated in a few cases, but Bonds' case is only 99.9... whatever % certain. It's a stupid argument. Do you dispute the results of paternity tests as well? </p> It's also easier to prove that what Bonds did is egregious whereas you don't know the impact the Pat's cheating had. What Bonds did was worse since it had such a large affect, to argue otherwise is impossible because of the lack of evidence. </p>
