[Feigen's Blog] A Question about All Those Rockets Questions

[quote name='Rock4life']</p>

[quote name='foo82']</p>

[quote name='Rock4life']</p>

[quote name='Rock4life']</p>

[quote name='dakeem1']</p>

[quote name='Rock4life']</p>

[quote name='durvasa']</p>

[quote name='Rock4life']</p>

Why is my question irrevelant? If ur statement that Chuck Hayes is indeed a better overallplayer than Juwan Howard is, then I'm sure Hayes could've filled in for Yao and produced double-figure points and a adequate number of rebounds in a BIGGER role as Juwan did.</p>

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That doesn't follow. He could have provided more rebounding and better defense. But when Mutombo was already filling in for Yao, that wasn't as much of a priority as scoring.</p>

Juwan's value shot up and Chuck's went down when Yao was out of the lineup. And when Yao returned, the opposite happened. Actually, let's just compare Juwan's stats while Yao was out to Chuck's stats when Yao returned. Juwan played 32 mpg for when Yao was out, which he should absolutely be credited for. All the other stats are "per 30 minutes".</p>

<table cellspacing="3" cellpadding="3" width="670" border="3">
<caption>Juwan during Yao's Injury VS Chuck after Yao returned
</caption>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="center"></td>
<td align="center">min/g</td>
<td align="center">pts/30</td>
<td align="center">TS%</td>
<td align="center">reb/30</td>
<td align="center">ast/30</td>
<td align="center">TO/30</td>
<td align="center">stl/30</td>
<td align="center">blk/30</td>
<td align="center">PF/30</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">Juwan (12/23 - 3/3)</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">32.2</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">12.4</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">52.4%</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">6.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">2.3</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">1.7</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">0.4</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">0.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">2.7</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">Chuck (12/23 - 3/3)</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">19.5</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">7.0</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">56.4%</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">8.3</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">0.9</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">1.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">1.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">0.4</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#ff0000">5.2</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">Chuck (3/3 - 4/18)</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">25.7</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">9.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">64.2%</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">9.6</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">0.9</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">0.9</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">1.6</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">0.3</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">4.6</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">Juwan (3/3 - 4/18)</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">24.1</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">10.6</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">50.6%</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">6.9</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">1.6</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">1.4</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">0.4</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">0.2</font></td>
<td align="center"><font color="#339966">3.2</font></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</p>

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Per 30 minutes of action, can you really say that Juwan's numbers when Yao was injured are clearly better than Chuck's numbers after Yao returned? In general, I'd rather have a 9 pts, 9 reb type player who's extremely efficient and forces a lot of turnovers, compared to the 14 pts, 6 reb you talk about. That's something Chuck is capable of giving a team in a starting role. Not Juwan.</p>

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But the question is "Who's the better player" and also"Which one is more one-dimensional".....Howard is CLEARY, and will alwayz be the better player overrall. And Chuck Hayes one of the most one-dimensional players in the NBA.</p>

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Hey Rock... see this post I quoted? check Foo's post directly above it. He basically answers your question.. or more like nullifies your question as to who is the better player.</p>

Read all the arguments before you ignorantly post something. I mean, you asked a question directly after Foo's post that nullified it.</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

First off, that's not Foo's quote that's Durvasa's. So maybeYOU should think before ignorantly posting something.</p>

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But anyway, it's hard to debate with Durvasa when he doesnt really have a position. He'll throw his per-30 stats out there, but most of the time he'll shy away from making any bold statements. Foo seems to make really bold and in my opinion inaccurate statements (like when he said Tmac has NEVER ran point guard) so it's hard easier to get in depth with our discussions.</p>

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Ugh, not this again. Let me ask you this. Would you say Lebron James runs the point guard position? Of course its hard to get in depth with you in discussions. Especially since you ignore any aspects where you have to prove something, and stick with the same rhetoric. You still have not answered the one-dimensional issue and have not even remotely come close to even addressing the issue. You go off tangents and make ridiculous statements that are completely irralevent to the issues we are discussing. And most damning of all, you do not provide evidence to backup your claims. You do back up your claims with false statements (such as saying that Andre Kirelenko would often come off of Hayes to double team Yao, despite the fact that Hayes was not AK's man).</p>

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Btw, Tmac was never backup pointguard for the rockets. Luther Head was. This is almost as silly as Tmacyao's obsession with tmac being a point forward.</p>

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[/QUOTE]</p>

How exactly were myclaimsridiculous? Again, here are the stats from last years season:</p>

<u>CHUCK HAYES</u></p>

PTS: 5.6</p>

REBS: 6.7</p>

ASS: 0.6</p>

BLKS: 0.2</p>

STL: 0.9</p>

FT:61%</p>

</p>

<u>JUWAN HOWARD</u></p>

PTS: 9.7</p>

REBS: 5.9</p>

ASS: 1.6</p>

BLKS:0.1</p>

STL: 0.4</p>

FT: 82%</p>

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR FOO82.................Going by 2006-2007's season numbers, I believe Chuck Hayes is the more one-dimensional player (addresses's ur first point). Why? becausetheJuwan'srebounds are only one underChuck's, so are his blocks, andsteals, areas where Chuck's supposed to be head over heals better as you claim.Points and free throw shootingis where the biggest difference lies, meaning Juwan's gameisn't just midrange. He alsomakes hisfree throws consistently, which is why heplayeddown the stretch. Secondly, every announcer raved at how Tmac ran the point and became the distrubutor at times. A point guard A)gets the offense started. B)Distributes the ball to different players and C)Handles the rock up and down the court. ALL of which Tmac has donePLENTY of times for us. Luther and Tmac both played pointguard at times (address's ur second point). I've addressed all ur points that you've previously mentioned in this thread, if I've missed some feel free to point them out. I'll wait..............</p>

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I wasn't refering to the post you quoted. I said the post DIRECTLY above the post I am referring to. So no ignorant posts from me.</p>

Don't worry about it. It's old now and you clearly don't care about it.</p>

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Another hting about comparing Chuck's and Juwon's numbers. Keep in mind the minutes they played, and also the fact that Chuck has been commended as a brilliant hustle player (which is generally not reflected in stats). It's like how us Rocket fans love Battier, but his numbers aren't particularly eye-catching.</p>

 

I'm sorry, but if you can't see how weak your claims are, there is no use arguing with you. I already said Juwan was a better scorer...but damn Free Throw Percentage. How could I have not thought of that??? Next time we look for a new power forward, we should just use free throw percentage as a criteria. Afterall, we all know how important shooting freethrows are. I mean, who needs rebounding, defense, hustle. WE HAVE FREE THROWS!!!! That certainly adds a whole new dimension to a player! Wow, now I'm totally convinced. Because of Juwan's superior freethrow shooting ability, we can now claim he is now no more one-dimensional than Hayes is.</p>

Why didn't you post up the fg%? or eFG%? Oh wait, thats right, Hayes is a more efficient scorer.</p>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (foo82)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

I'm sorry, but if you can't see how weak your claims are, there is no use arguing with you. I already said Juwan was a better scorer...but damn Free Throw Percentage. How could I have not thought of that??? Next time we look for a new power forward, we should just use free throw percentage as a criteria. Afterall, we all know how important shooting freethrows are. I mean, who needs rebounding, defense, hustle. WE HAVE FREE THROWS!!!! That certainly adds a whole new dimension to a player! Wow, now I'm totally convinced. Because of Juwan's superior freethrow shooting ability, we can now claim he is now no more one-dimensional than Hayes is.</p>

Why didn't you post up the fg%? or eFG%? Oh wait, thats right, Hayes is a more efficient scorer.</p>

</div></p>

LOL...Ur alwayz in attack mode. Heresa few things...........DID YOU KNOW that the team that makes the higher amount of free throws in a NBA gameWINS the majority of the time? Free throws change the complexion of almost every game whether you notice it or not. Actually, I think we should DEFINATLEY look for a powerfoward that can hit his free throws. It's actually a great commodity to have on a contender. Hayes doesnt take near the shots Howard does, so FG% might be a little misleading. Chuck will never be a scorer in this league, so he'll never average over 5 shots a game.</p>