There's more to being clutch than just making the last shot, and Kobe faces tighter coverage of course on the last shot.</p> ~Kobe had better clutch stats this year.</p> Source: 82games.com</p> Ben Gordon</p> CLUTCH STATISTICS</p> (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left,neither team ahead by more than five points)</p> </p> <font size="-1" face="verdana">Floor Time statistics <table width="500" cellspacing="1" border="0" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody> <tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td><center><font size="-1">Min</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Net Pts</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Off</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Def</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Net48</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">W</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">L</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Win%</font></center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 81%</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1">+39</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1">108.1</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 93.1</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 14.9</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 23 </font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 16 </font></td> <td><center><font size="-1"> 59.0%</font></center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <font size="-2"> These stats represent how the team performed in clutch situations while the player was on the floor. The Net48 number shows the average +/- net points over a full game. </font></font> <font size="-1" face="verdana">Scoring <table width="460" cellspacing="1" border="0" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody> <tr bgcolor="#e5e5e5"> <td width="60" bgcolor="#33cc33"><center><font size="-1">By</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FG.</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FGA</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FG%</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">eFG%</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Ast'd</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Blk'd</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FTM</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Pts</font></center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center><font size="-1">48 Min</font></center></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">12.3</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">33.7</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">.364</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">.398 </font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1"> 31%</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1"> 9%</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">17.6</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">44.4</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </font></p> </p> </p> Kobe Bryant</p> <font size="-1" face="verdana"><font size="-1">CLUTCH STATISTICS</font> <font size="-1">(4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left,neither team ahead by more than 5 points)</font> </font></p> </p> <font size="-1" face="verdana">Floor Time statistics <table width="500" cellspacing="1" border="0" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody> <tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td><center><font size="-1">Min</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Net Pts</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Off</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Def</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Net48</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">W</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">L</font></center></td> <td><center><font size="-1">Win%</font></center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 98%</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1">-3</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1">105.5</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1">106.2</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> -0.6</font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 22 </font></td> <td align="center"><font size="-1"> 24 </font></td> <td><center><font size="-1"> 47.8%</font></center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <font size="-2"> These stats represent how the team performed in clutch situations while the player was on the floor. The Net48 number shows the average +/- net points over a full game. </font></font> <font size="-1" face="verdana">Scoring <table width="460" cellspacing="1" border="0" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody> <tr bgcolor="#e5e5e5"> <td width="60" bgcolor="#33cc33"><center><font size="-1">By</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FG.</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FGA</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FG%</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">eFG%</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Ast'd</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Blk'd</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">FTM</font></center></td> <td width="50"><center><font size="-1">Pts</font></center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td><center><font size="-1">48 Min</font></center></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">13.4</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">33.6</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">.397</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">.436 </font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1"> 32%</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1"> 6%</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">18.1</font></td> <td align="right"><font size="-1">47.4</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </font></p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Wow, Ben Gordon over Kobe Bryant? Don't waste my time.</p> </div></p> Lol, short and sweet. I should have taken that approach as well.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Wow, Ben Gordon over Kobe Bryant? Don't waste my time.</p> </div></p> Lol, short and sweet. I should have taken that approach as well.</p> </p> </div></p> LOL, I wouldn't go to sleep until I have proven my point.</p> </p> </p>
And for the record, Gordon isn't even the best player on the Bulls roster. He didn't even lead the Bulls during the playoffs, Luol Deng did</p>
Man, if there was a Gordon for Kobe trade straight up the Bulls would dominate and the Lakers would be ripped off.</p> I love Gordon as a Bulls fan but come on. Who cares about the clutch comparisions. While BG was terrible against Detriot in the playoffs Kobe would have been guaranteedto produce. That's the difference right there Kobe scores at will. BG's too small and he sometimes falls when driving to the rim; literally falls its so embarassing to watch, the commentators don't even mention it.</p> Kobe > Gordon by far.Compared by asports fan not as a Bulls fan.</p>
Robert Horry is even more clutch than Ben Gordon. Let's trade Kobe to the Spurs for Horry. LOLERZZZ</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bulls=Amazing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Man, if there was a Gordon for Kobe trade straight up the Bulls would dominate and the Lakers would be ripped off.</p> I love Gordon as a Bulls fan but come on. Who cares about the clutch comparisions. While BG was terrible against Detriot in the playoffs Kobe would have been guaranteedto produce. That's the difference right there Kobe scores at will. BG's too small and he sometimes falls when driving to the rim; literally falls its so embarassing to watch, the commentators don't even mention it.</p> Kobe > Gordon by far.Compared by asports fan not as a Bulls fan.</p> </div></p> Well said.</p> To stray from the topic for a moment. I knew the Lakers were involved in several close games last season. Out of the 32 times Kobe was taking the last shot, and only making 7 does that mean the Lakers lost 25 of the 32 close games? Or did some of them go into OT?</p> The point I'm trying to make here is the potential of this Lakers squad. Looking at those numbers, the Lakers were in a position to win a lot more games last season and probably would have if they were healthier. Without looking further into detail about the results of the final game shots, let's assume the Lakers lost everytime Kobe missed. If the Lakers can just win half of those 25 games to go along with last season's win total, we'd be in great position for a top seed in the West.</p> I'd be interested to find out how Kobe's teammates performed when they took the last shot. I'll try to research this more when I have time on the weekend. The Lakers might be one of the most underrated teams heading into this season if my theory holds up.</p> </p>
As a bulls fan i would want a gordon - bryant trade but only if we didnt give up anything else in the deal. basically if we put kupchak over a barrel and go to town. Bryant is definately a better player than anyone on the bulls is, and better than anyone on the bulls is going to be from a talent stand point. if we have to give up more than gordon, 1sts and noah or thomas then it isnt worth it.</p>
You guys should stop selectively reading posts, before doing mindless bashing.</p> In the first line of my 2nd to last post, I said that Kobe was obviously better than Ben Gordon. FIRST STATEMENT.</p> You guys are just doing a player comparison. I am actually looking at it from a trade stand point, looking at TRADE VALUES, not PLAYER VALUES, and how realistic trade scenarios would go down.</p>
Gordon did get the ball every time the game was close/on the line. You do have to take into account the Bull simply didn't play as many close games.</p> Gordon had 4 APG and had the ball nowhere near as much as Kobe. Not even 1/3 the minutes with the ball in his hands. Downright impressive in its own right.</p> While Deng put up stellar numbers in the 1st round of the playoffs, Gordon put up 25/8/8 - what a bum!</p> Gordon is double and triple teamed constantly, to suggest he somehow gets easy shots in the clutch when everyone in the building knows he's going to get the ball is ... just wrong.</p> That said, Kobe is clearly a much better player. He's bigger, rebounds at will, and plays defense at a very high level. He's a top 5 player and arguably the very best. Gordon's a top 30 player, at best.</p> </p>
The rumor was shot down this morning on SportsRISE. Talk is still continuing, but I doubt anything like this would happen knowing Paxson. Also for my interest I don't want to drain the roster for Bryant anytime soon.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Gordon did get the ball every time the game was close/on the line. You do have to take into account the Bull simply didn't play as many close games.</p> Gordon had 4 APG and had the ball nowhere near as much as Kobe. Not even 1/3 the minutes with the ball in his hands. Downright impressive in its own right.</p> While Deng put up stellar numbers in the 1st round of the playoffs, Gordon put up 25/8/8 - what a bum!</p> Gordon is double and triple teamed constantly, to suggest he somehow gets easy shots in the clutch when everyone in the building knows he's going to get the ball is ... just wrong.</p> That said, Kobe is clearly a much better player. He's bigger, rebounds at will, and plays defense at a very high level. He's a top 5 player and arguably the very best. Gordon's a top 30 player, at best.</p> </p> </div></p> Gordon averaged 4.4 assists per 40, compared to Kobe's 5.3 per 40, even though Gordon plays with better players. I'd still say Kobe is a better passer.</p> Gordon has played three seasons in the league. Kobe faces, at least, a bit more coverage than him in the clutch but still has better stats in the last five minutes.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Gordon did get the ball every time the game was close/on the line. You do have to take into account the Bull simply didn't play as many close games.</p> Gordon had 4 APG and had the ball nowhere near as much as Kobe. Not even 1/3 the minutes with the ball in his hands. Downright impressive in its own right.</p> While Deng put up stellar numbers in the 1st round of the playoffs, Gordon put up 25/8/8 - what a bum!</p> Gordon is double and triple teamed constantly, to suggest he somehow gets easy shots in the clutch when everyone in the building knows he's going to get the ball is ... just wrong.</p> That said, Kobe is clearly a much better player. He's bigger, rebounds at will, and plays defense at a very high level. He's a top 5 player and arguably the very best. Gordon's a top 30 player, at best.</p> </p> </div></p> Gordon averaged 4.4 assists per 40, compared to Kobe's 5.3 per 40, even though Gordon plays with better players. I'd still say Kobe is a better passer.</p> Gordon has played three seasons in the league. Kobe faces, at least, a bit more coverage than him in the clutch but still has better stats in the last five minutes.</p> </p> </div></p> The per 40 stat would be meaningful if Gordon had the ball in his hands 20 out of every 24 seconds on the shot clock.</p> How do you think 4.0 APG fares against other SGs?</p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Gordon did get the ball every time the game was close/on the line. You do have to take into account the Bull simply didn't play as many close games.</p> Gordon had 4 APG and had the ball nowhere near as much as Kobe. Not even 1/3 the minutes with the ball in his hands. Downright impressive in its own right.</p> While Deng put up stellar numbers in the 1st round of the playoffs, Gordon put up 25/8/8 - what a bum!</p> Gordon is double and triple teamed constantly, to suggest he somehow gets easy shots in the clutch when everyone in the building knows he's going to get the ball is ... just wrong.</p> That said, Kobe is clearly a much better player. He's bigger, rebounds at will, and plays defense at a very high level. He's a top 5 player and arguably the very best. Gordon's a top 30 player, at best.</p> </p> </div></p> Gordon averaged 4.4 assists per 40, compared to Kobe's 5.3 per 40, even though Gordon plays with better players. I'd still say Kobe is a better passer.</p> Gordon has played three seasons in the league. Kobe faces, at least, a bit more coverage than him in the clutch but still has better stats in the last five minutes.</p> </p> </div></p> The per 40 stat would be meaningful if Gordon had the ball in his hands 20 out of every 24 seconds on the shot clock.</p> How do you think 4.0 APG fares against other SGs?</p> </div></p> The triangle offense spreads out assists anyway. Kobe is quite underrated as a passer.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> You guys should stop selectively reading posts, before doing mindless bashing.</p> In the first line of my 2nd to last post, I said that Kobe was obviously better than Ben Gordon. FIRST STATEMENT.</p> You guys are just doing a player comparison. I am actually looking at it from a trade stand point, looking at TRADE VALUES, not PLAYER VALUES, and how realistic trade scenarios would go down.</p> </div></p> </p> The article suggested giving Gordon, Noc, Thabo, Joe Smith & picks for Kobe which you thought was a bad idea.</p> But you think these are good ideas (1)Deng + Filler (2) Kirk+Noc+Filler.</p> Why would you trade away players that would compliment Kobe's talents (Kirk, Deng) at different positions none-the-less! And keep Gordon at the same position as Kobe? If we were to trade for Kobe it would benefit us to have Gordon involved in the trade. And don't say he could play PG.</p>
Ben Gordon could play point guard next to Kobe. Bulls fans are going to be disappointed, in large, when Ben Gordon is playing point guard this year.</p> Skiles said on Media Day that Ben is going to be playing a lot of point guard this year. They are basically eliminating most of Duhon's role with the team. I still don't understand why most Bulls fans want to see Gordon fail when playing point guard. He has done a good job when he played point gaurd, that Milwaukee game, Heat series come to mind.</p> </p> </p>
Gordon needs a big guard to complement him, and with Kobe's ballhandling and passing skills, he'd be a terrific coomplementary player. Hinrich would be a great complement, too. Duhon, even, if you want Kobe to shoot every time down the court </p> Gordon needs to play point to be a star. If he's given the chance, he'll turn out to be a lot like Baron Davis, IMO. Skiles would have to play him there and stick with him for as many as 20 games for it to truly work out. Skiles has historically yanked Gordon if he's not off to a massively hot shooting night or otherwise makes a mistake - not so much last year, though he did bench him for only scoring 18 PPG for the first bunch of games.</p> Otherwise, the Bulls are going to be stuck with a small backcourt that teams will take advantage of at playoff time (or any other opportunity, for that matter).</p> It's true the triangle features a lot of ball sharing, but it has also featured the key players getting the ball most of the time and most of the shots. Jordan ring a bell? What makes Gordon's 4 APG remarkable is how much the Bulls' offense relies on Hinrich dribbling for as much as the clock as possible - far fewer touches, period, for the rest of the guys.</p> </p>
