We all know this coaching staff is good at developing bigs. Nenad, Boone, and hopefully Sean Williams are making good strides. Heck, Jason Collins is still in the league--and a starter, no less- so that has to say something. I give all the credit in the world to Bill Cartwright's coaching for that, but..</p> How good is this coaching staff at developing swingman talent? It's been brought to my attention because it's obvious to me that Antoine Wright shouldn't have this much of a problem transitioning into the NBA. He has the talent, we've all seen it. He has the work ethic, no question about that...then what is it? I'm beginning more and more to think it's the coaching staff. Let's look at some of the others. After Byronn Scott was ushered out, what happned to the development of Richard Jefferson? What once look like a budding all-star has now turned into a do-it-all utlity type player. Yeah, he's been injured, but even when he's healthy he doesn't look any better than he did in 2003-2004. I don't see much improvement in his game, and in all honesty, I doubt he's hit his ceiling. Now with Antoine Wright being the first swingman this coaching staff has had from the get go we barely see any improvement at all. I've watched him a lot in college---a friend of mine here is a big Aggie fan so we go to the bars to watch the games--and I was generally receptive when we drafted him..Though, like everyone else, I wanted Warrick. I have a few reasons why he hasn't played well. One was inconsistent minutes. Antoine is not a plug and play player. He's a rhythm player and needs to get his feet wet before playing well, but Frank will give him 20 min one night, 1 the next. I can feel for Antoine because he probably thinks that if he plays poorly he'll be taken out. So he overplays and ends up fouling and hesitating before he shoots. It's obvious that Frank just doesn't trust him out there, and that's bad cause if you have young talent. It totally messes with their confidence.</p> I know someone is going to bring up Boki's recent burst as a player...and you're right, he certainly didn't look much before he came here. But I wonder if it's just because we're the first team to actually give him a shot and he had it before he came here. He was drafted by the Rockets, and didn't play much..though I do remember that one game where he punked Malone. That and the amazing Gerald Wallace dunk over him. In Houston, he played behind Scottie P, Jim Jackson, with Cat leading the league in minutes too. He really was just a throw in trade for NOH so I don't think he was really given a chance at playing. Especially since at the time they were trying to develop JR Smith, Rasual Butler, Kirk Snyder into good players. Interesting fact though, he was coached under Scott's camp at NOH, and since leaving the team JR Smith turned out to have talent, albeit being a bonehead. Butler is a solid player that's found a role in the league. Kirk has yet to live up to expectations of being a lotto pick, but he's still in the league. And now Boki is looking like a contender for 6MOY.. So I'm cautious in giving this coaching staff credit for Boki's development when it seems like it could've been Scott and his staff.</p> So this leaves us questioning whether this coaching staff is good at developing swingman talent. I say the answer is no. Cause we obviously don't have an example of it. Antoine Wright might as well be considered a lottery pick and he looks like a second rounder right now. I wish Bernard Robinson didn't get hurt so we could see his progress. As for Hassan Adams? He looked like the same player he did in college so I'm not seeing any development. What about Marcus Williams? I don't think I've seen enough to judge how they develop point guards, but from what I can tell he doesn't look too much different than he did at UConn. He still has a streaky jumpshot, some playmaking skills, and still makes really bad decisions at times, but I'm not going to judge it off only a rookie season.</p>
Right now it's especailly hard to develop our gaurds. We are in a win now situation and we have one of the best one two three combos in the entire NBA. As for our bigman, we can give them time in the post because we do not have that talent we are looking for yet.</p> To break it down, it's easier to steal playing time from Jason Collins rather than Vince Carter IMO.</p>
I think that's a very legit point..which brings me back to a huge weakness in Frank's coaching philosophy. He doesn't disperse minutes rationally, he just goes with who's playing well and if no one is, just give it to Vince and tell everyone to get out of the way. He's fortunate to have such luxuries in Kidd, Vince, and RJ, who are good decision makers. Well, VC has questionable shot selection, but has decent passing skills and isn't overly-selfish in the Stephon Marbury mold. But at one point, if we are to expect consistency from guys outside of the three then he's going to have to put more faith and confidence in them. I think it boils down that if we are to succeed, he's going to have to put faith into our young'ns more.</p>
Universe hit it right on the head, how are we supposed to develop wing talent when we need Kidd, VC, and RJ on the floor for this team to be successful? So much is run through and created by those 3 players it’s very difficult to substitute in our bench guys who range from promising to good to borderline NBA players. It's not like we wouldn't love to give the younger kid's opportunities and give them rest but the drop off in talent between the bench and the starters is just too great to give them the time they need to be the rhythm players yer talking about. I agree Wright is one of those guys but he also knows that part of his role is to come in when needed and he has to be able to show us he can do that as well. Once he gets consistent at that job then he will get more minutes and become a better player but he has to show that first. It’s not an easy role to come right into in the NBA, “hey come in with no real experience and don’t mess up because we have no margin for error” while Antoine may not be more than a role player his entire career that is a situation not a lot of players never would have stuck around in. Yes 3 years seems like a long time but in court time the kid's about 1.5 years in so he's actually progressing pretty nicely and doing the things we ask of him. No matter how hard a worker you are it doesn’t mean you’ll automatically become better quicker and as long as he doesn’t take any step backwards that’s the real telling factor of how this kid is progressing. While I will say Scott gives younger players opportunities to succeed and play over Frank but it’s out of lack of a better options and having a stellar floor leaders (Kidd, CP3) that can make players around them better. At the 2/3 VC and RJ will always be the better option and even if Byron were coaching here that would stay the same with the current cast we have now. Nachbar showed signs of the stuff he's doing now in New Orleans and he capitalized on the injuries we had last season. He did so over Wright because he's taller and helped us spread the floor at the 4 just as he watched Cliff do for half a season for us. Then when he got comfortable as he played off Kidd and Carter in RJ’s absence ( arguably the most expendable of the big 3). While technically Boki is a swing player it’s not in the same vein as a Wright who shifts from the 2-3 as Boki shifts to the 3-4 because the guys Wright is guarding has the NBA rules in favor of them more so than the guys Boki is seeing and again Wright doesn’t have the skills to come in and make Boki better like a VC does. Scott may have given him the initial opportunity but our system along with Boki’s understanding and talent allowed him to get the most out of his opportunity last year. Wright will never be in that situation. RJ is who he is. His shooting has improved, he’s still attacking the basket, and he’s finally healthy again. He may never be an all star but that’s not to say he hasn’t maximized his potential seeing as he is a very good defender when his ankle is well. He was never in line to be another T-Mac and has carved out quite a nice niche for himself on this team and in the NBA in general. We are built around Kidd, Carter, and RJ and everyone we have are complimentary pieces to them. Guys like Zoran, Hassan, etc. have gone by the wayside because we still had/have holes to fill and the coaching staff had no idea how to get the most out of them. Now we’re a pretty deep squad with a lot of match up possibilities and that was something we’ve needed all along. So while we may not have a firm A to B example of success at swingman growth under Frank on our bench we do have a team that can contend with anybody on any given night and a guy in Antoine who will play a prominent role in helping make that happen.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nextlevelgame)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> I think that's a very legit point..which brings me back to a huge weakness in Frank's coaching philosophy. He doesn't disperse minutes rationally, he just goes with who's playing well and if no one is, just give it to Vince and tell everyone to get out of the way. He's fortunate to have such luxuries in Kidd, Vince, and RJ, who are good decision makers. Well, VC has questionable shot selection, but has decent passing skills and isn't overly-selfish in the Stephon Marbury mold. But at one point, if we are to expect consistency from guys outside of the three then he's going to have to put more faith and confidence in them. I think it boils down that if we are to succeed, he's going to have to put faith into our young'ns more.</p> </div></p> There's also the point of us running a very specific kind of sets and plays that have shown more success than failure. Alot of that failure leads to VC iso'ing because the level of support help wasn't so great. Marcus, Boone, and Nenad all got time as young players and will continue to and are major players in our success but they all have to come in and do what we need them to do first and foremost. You need to have that structure before ya let them freelance and the past couple of years we haven't had the luxury of letting them do that as much as you or I would like to see happen because if we hadn't made the playoffs the past couple seasons we might not even be having this same conversation and we could just as easily be a rebuilding team.</p> Sure sometimes it seems like the leash is a bit too tight on Wright and Marcus but we need them to do what we ask of them in the grand scheme of the team and not just for them as most of our bigs need the ball in the right place to be effective and to collectively keep the pace of the game in our favor. I think both guys are going to come around to that this year with the cast we have around them but if not then we might have to re-evlauate the roster and get the right players in here who can.</p> </p> </p>
At least, Antoine Wright is better than Dorell Wright right now,</p> Dorell sucks in the preseason game no matter how taller his stature has been this summer, and he got injured last game.</p> </p> At least, Antoine is a solid defender, I could see that he has a different year this season.</p>
I wish we took Warrick, too. I would been much, much happier with Warrick here. He coulda been crazy for us.</p> But I'd have to agree that Frank has a hard time developing talent. And I'm curious as to whether or not it was actually Scott developing that talent or his Assistant Coaches. That's possible, since you know the Head Coach doesn't do EVERYTHING. Maybe all we were missing was an Assistant who was good at developing young wing men, the way Cartwright is developing the big men.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> At least, Antoine Wright is better than Dorell Wright right now,</p> Dorell sucks in the preseason game no matter how taller his stature has been this summer, and he got injured last game.</p> </p> At least, Antoine is a solid defender, I could see that he has a different year this season.</p> </div></p> Wright should be better, he actually went to college, and is a few years older. I give college alot of credit to developing solid defenders.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> At least, Antoine Wright is better than Dorell Wright right now,</p> Dorell sucks in the preseason game no matter how taller his stature has been this summer, and he got injured last game.</p> </p> At least, Antoine is a solid defender, I could see that he has a different year this season.</p> </div></p> </p> Yer not really setting the bar too high there comparing a kid who had 3 years in college compared to one who was super raw coming in out of High School. While Anotine has shown his value to this team, especially defensively, that's the only edge he has on Dorrell who is just as good if not better in every other category. They both have alot to prove this season without question but Dorrell has the higher cieling without question. As long as Antonie does what we ask of him who cares what other guy is better or worse as long as he helps the team win. Comparing summer league games means absolutely nothing because neither guy is gonna be in those same kind of situations they're in now come regular season.</p> </p>
If someone sucks in the preseason games, he doesn't have the better chance in the regular season, it's same that when you are playing better in the preseason games, it won't indicate that you will play well in the regular games, but both in the preseason, we can see the different.</p>
I think in your long-winded diatribe, dodged my question completely. Let me break it down, JBB style.</p> </p> Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I do remember a rookie RJ averaging nearly 10 ppg off the bench coming behind Kerry and Keith. In fact, he looked so good that he made KVH expendable. So I don't buy that we can't develop wing talent when we've done it before under a different coach.</p> </p> I whole-heartily disagree. I've yet to see VC and RJ as a tandem click on the offensive end. I've seen Boki and VC click, hell, Rodney Buford and VC clicked better than VC and RJ. My point being, the three of them are not contigent of each other. We can plug and match with Antoine, but for some reason he's not developing. Why is that? I'm going to say the coaching staff is not doing their job in that regard.</p> </p> Well I'm all for it if the coaching staff is actually willing to give him a try.</p> </p> You're acting as if he's never played basketball prior to the NBA. He's a ball player. A very good one, infact. He just needs to be given a chance. I've watched so many Net games and I can't tell you how many times Frank takes him out after maybe 5 minutes cause he picked up a foul. Who can succeed when your own coach has little faith in you? He's a not robot. He's a human being first. You have to believe in him if you expect him succeed. We forget that he's 23/24 years old. He's still a child in this league and he needs more belief in him.</p> </p> You must have lower expectations for him if you think what he's accomplished if what "we ask of him."</p> </p> This is true, but I don't think it relates to this case.</p> </p> I don't know what your point is here. I never said anything about VC and RJ not being the starters and main minute-retainers. All I said is Byron can develop the swingmen better than Frank can. Evidence shows it.</p> </p> Don't patronize me; I watch Nets games too. I'm not arguing that Boki isn't as good as Wright. I'm not arguing this point at all. This is what we call an irrelevant tangent. Stick to the subject.</p> </p> Once again you're putting words in my mouth. When did I say he was in line to be another T-Mac? All I said was that he was on his way to becoming an all-star. In the same mold that Manu was an all-star. Not a perrenial, starting All-Star/NBA superstar. I was wondering what happened to that tag? Now he's just a quality player. It's like he hasn't done anything since Frank took over.</p> </p> Exactly, cause the staff and Frank has no idea how to develop swingmen.</p> </p> Was this supposed to be your promising ending? Cause I'm not sold.</p> </p> I agree, and I don't blame VC for not making a lot of those shots because Frank can't draw a timely play and expects his stars to do something with it.</p> </p> Cant you please just stick to the subject? When did I say I want them to be able to freelance? I just want them to play somewhat equal minutes every night. Where did I say I wanted Frank to draw plays for them? I just want them to get a feel for the game. You gotta work on staying on the subject. Rebuilding team? What are you talking about? ADDRESS THE POINT. PLEASE.</p> </p> Wow. just wow. I have nothing to say about this run-on sentence. Hopefully you learn to stick to the subject so we can have a conversation soon.</p> </p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> If someone sucks in the preseason games, he doesn't have the better chance in the regular season, it's same that when you are playing better in the preseason games, it won't indicate that you will play well in the regular games, but both in the preseason, we can see the different.</p> </div></p> </p> So yer saying Dorell Wright won't play better next to Dwayne Wade/Jason Williams than he will Smush Parker/Chris Quinn?</p> Sure our Wright is getting better numbers but will we see that kinda stuff from him outside of a couple games a season, probably not. It goes both ways.</p> BTW Dorell Wright has 10 blocks in 4 preseason games, I think that height might just be coming in handy afterall and giving Antoine a run in the defensive category as well.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nextlevelgame)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> I think in your long-winded diatribe, dodged my question completely. Let me break it down, JBB style.</p> </div></p> Sorry I wasted the time to even try to type it. That was my 2 cents, sorry if you feel I was talking down to you or avoiding the question because that wasn't my intention. Maybe i'm sill dodging the question in your eyes but i'm in no mood to go back and forth on this because i guess i don't know how to get my points across to you.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nextlevelgame)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'> Nachbar showed signs of the stuff he's doing now in New Orleans and he capitalized on the injuries we had last season. He did so over Wright because he's taller and helped us spread the floor at the 4 just as he watched Cliff do for half a season for us. Then when he got comfortable as he played off Kidd and Carter in RJ’s absence ( arguably the most expendable of the big 3). While technically Boki is a swing player it’s not in the same vein as a Wright who shifts from the 2-3 as Boki shifts to the 3-4 because the guys Wright is guarding has the NBA rules in favor of them more so than the guys Boki is seeing and again Wright doesn’t have the skills to come in and make Boki better like a VC does. Scott may have given him the initial opportunity but our system along with Boki’s understanding and talent allowed him to get the most out of his opportunity last year. Wright will never be in that situation.</div></p> Don't patronize me; I watch Nets games too. I'm not arguing that Boki isn't as good as Wright. I'm not arguing this point at all. This is what we call an irrelevant tangent. Stick to the subject.</p> </div></p> You had a whole paragraph about Boki. I don't understand how this is not on "the subject".</p> You're talking about swingmen talent, Boki's a swingman, and got more of a chance to show his swingman talents because his size, shooting, and slashing gave us a changeup from VC/RJ and any of our bigs...while Wright brought nothing special, just solid defense, which RJ brings when healthy and Vince brings when he's not tired off his ass. He didn't even bring a good jumpshot (which is not Frank's problem, or the assistants' problems...that's all on Wright, it's up to him to make shots).</p> So Wright didn't get a chance to develop more, like Boki, because he wasn't given as many minutes...that's pretty much what Reganomics was saying.</p> And why does it seem like you're attacking Rega every other paragraph? He's trying to give his input, and comment on different things relating to the subject. Just because you don't completely agree with everything he's saying, and don't know understand where he's coming from, it doesn't give you the right to pretty much demoralize him like that.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> If someone sucks in the preseason games, he doesn't have the better chance in the regular season, it's same that when you are playing better in the preseason games, it won't indicate that you will play well in the regular games, but both in the preseason, we can see the different.</p> </div></p> With all we read about his work ethic; cutting his summers short to be in the gym, relentless working on all aspects..you wonder if he's not getting the right schooling as to why he's not performing in the pre-season.</p> </p>
[quote name='peg182']</p> [quote name='nextlevelgame']</p> </p> Don't patronize me; I watch Nets games too. I'm not arguing that Boki isn't as good as Wright. I'm not arguing this point at all. This is what we call an irrelevant tangent. Stick to the subject.</p> [/QUOTE]</p> You had a whole paragraph about Boki. I don't understand how this is not on "the subject".</p> You're talking about swingmen talent, Boki's a swingman, and got more of a chance to show his swingman talents because his size, shooting, and slashing gave us a changeup from VC/RJ and any of our bigs...while Wright brought nothing special, just solid defense, which RJ brings when healthy and Vince brings when he's not tired off his ass. He didn't even bring a good jumpshot (which is not Frank's problem, or the assistants' problems...that's all on Wright, it's up to him to make shots).</p> [/QUOTE]</p> The subject was not why Boki is better than Antoine. We know that. It's self-evident. It's not the point. My point is about developing swingman talent. Not who's better than who and who showed more than the next. It's about why it seems as if Antoine, Zoran, RJ somewhat, and whoever else was under this coaching staff never seem to get better.</p> </p> You his father? This isn't about demoralization, being right, etc. This is about having a conversation in which one actually address the subject before he challenges it. If he's replying to me, I can write whatever within reason as a response. That's what I did. If he wants to be pampered, patted on the head for trying, he's not going to get it from me. I have a son for myself that I preach for him to stick to the subject when he talks to someone. He's 8, and does that. I hope this man can do the same.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> So Wright didn't get a chance to develop more, like Boki, because he wasn't given as many minutes...that's pretty much what Reganomics was saying.</p> </div></p> That was it in a nutshell, yes. Boki capatalized off injury and an area of weakness on our team. Wright is playing behind a healthy VC and going small in the backcourt via matchups. The time for Wright just isn't as available in different lineups as it is for Boki.</p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nextlevelgame)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> You his father? This isn't about demoralization, being right, etc. This is about having a conversation in which one actually address the subject before he challenges it. If he's replying to me, I can write whatever within reason as a response. That's what I did. If he wants to be pampered, patted on the head for trying, he's not going to get it from me. I have a son for myself that I preach for him to stick to the subject when he talks to someone. He's 8, and does that. I hope this man can do the same.</p> </div></p> <font color="#ff0000">Sorry, Rega...This is obvious baiting, can't allow it.</font></p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nextlevelgame)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> You his father? This isn't about demoralization, being right, etc. This is about having a conversation in which one actually address the subject before he challenges it. If he's replying to me, I can write whatever within reason as a response. That's what I did. If he wants to be pampered, patted on the head for trying, he's not going to get it from me. I have a son for myself that I preach for him to stick to the subject when he talks to someone. He's 8, and does that. I hope this man can do the same.</p> </div></p> </p> <font color="#ff0000">*Baiting*</font></p> </div></p> Temper, temper. You conceed too quickly. I am just as eager to hear your points as well as the rest. Did I not agree with the man who said it's easier to steal minutes from Jason Collins than VC? All I am asking you and other Nets fans' is their input on whether they believe this coaching staff is teaching the young guards and swingmen anything. Somehow this turned out to be just about Antoine Wright. This deals with a lot of players. Someone brought up Zoran, who slipped my mind. I think that was another good case. RJ hasn't been looking better since Frank took over. In fact at times he looks worse. It's easy to look at VC and Kidd as our stars cause they're about developed as far as they can be, but if this is the coaching staff we're taking with to Brooklyn and they cannot develop our young talent..then I'd be very concerned. You should be too if you're a Nets fan.</p> </p> </p>
[quote name='nextlevelgame']</p> [quote name='peg182']</p> [quote name='nextlevelgame']</p> </p> Don't patronize me; I watch Nets games too. I'm not arguing that Boki isn't as good as Wright. I'm not arguing this point at all. This is what we call an irrelevant tangent. Stick to the subject.</p> [/QUOTE]</p> You had a whole paragraph about Boki. I don't understand how this is not on "the subject".</p> You're talking about swingmen talent, Boki's a swingman, and got more of a chance to show his swingman talents because his size, shooting, and slashing gave us a changeup from VC/RJ and any of our bigs...while Wright brought nothing special, just solid defense, which RJ brings when healthy and Vince brings when he's not tired off his ass. He didn't even bring a good jumpshot (which is not Frank's problem, or the assistants' problems...that's all on Wright, it's up to him to make shots).</p> [/QUOTE]</p> The subject was not why Boki is better than Antoine. We know that. It's self-evident. It's not the point. My point is about developing swingman talent. Not who's better than who and who showed more than the next. It's about why it seems as if Antoine, Zoran, RJ somewhat, and whoever else was under this coaching staff never seem to get better.</p> [/QUOTE]</p> Trying to explain why one swingman, Boki, has developed better than another swingman, Antoine. Not why Boki is better than Wright.</p> </p>
