<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>If titles mean that much... Well then I guess we should be debating between Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana because they each have 4 Super Bowl Rings, dont they?</div> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.
LOL this thread is a good read. I'll say again stats are like cheerleaders, they'll show you a lot but not everything. I still have a problem declaring a guy the greatest when he brings nothing more then his C game to the playoffs. If your looking for a QB who can pick apart weak D's like the Lions and Raiders Manning is by far the best. Only problem with him is when he plays a D that isn't a pushover he's a different QB (which most are but not as big a drop off as him) These playoffs didn't do a lot to change my opinion as it was the Colts D that really stepped up to win this title. When it comes to wanting the best guy for the biggest game I can't see how you can even take him over Brady but that's my 2 cents.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>If titles mean that much... Well then I guess we should be debating between Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana because they each have 4 Super Bowl Rings, dont they?</div> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.</div> Lets at least mention the glaring fact that Favre threw only 4 passes in his first year...And that is interesting, "No you just have to have one". Is that to say that the other super bowl wins don't matter? You want to talk about flawed logic, I'd like to understand how Marino's lack of a Super Bowl win discredits his stats, but Bradshaw and Montana having 3 more then Manning means nothing...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97</div> The most telling stat in the list... I wonder what Favre's numbers would be like if he were playing behind that O-Line and playing with guys like Harrison and Wayne and Faulk and James. I also agree with the post above that the numbers are skewed a bit by the fact that Favre didn't start his first year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McChicken5)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'> An opinion can be ignorant, if you'd of read my earlier post which included the definition you'd know that ( ignorant - lacking knowledge or information). For example, someone could say " It's so quiet outside " but if in reality that person is standing in a soundproof room, they could be ignorant to the fact that there's construction going on outside. And if you'd of read my last post you would know that I'm not ignorant to the fact that someone can believe one quarter back is better then another. And it's not disrespectful if that's how you feel? really? Then right after that you say he's not going to their face and saying it, that would be disrespectful... So I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say, is it not disrespectful because it's how he feels, or because they don't know it's how he feels? And he's not "simply stating that manning in his eyes is the best quarterback ever." Again if you would actually read the posts... He said " Manning is hands down the greatest quarterback ever". "Hands down", correct me if I'm wrong but does this not mean no objection, which would mean there is no one on his level?</div> In his eyes manning is the best ever, and thats his opinion. Which is no more or no less ignorant then your statement of his statement being ignorant. What i am trying to say is that ignorance layes as much in his statement as there is in yours. You cant bash ones opinion and say that his is ignorant and say that yours isnt. And its not disrespectful because it is his opinion its what he belives, and we have something in this country and its called freedom of speech. And its your opinion that what he says is ignorant. Anyway this thread has become stupid because the topic is just dumb. Manning is a great quaterback and still has allot of years in him and i belive he might even win 1 to 2 more championships. And of course theres never going to be "The best qb ever" as much as theres never going to be "the best movie ever" but its still his opinion and you have no right to bash it if all your going to say is it has ignorance and disresppectful.</div> Wow, you are getting ridiculous.... Once again... he said "Manning is hands down the greatest quarterback ever"... And you say it isn't disrespectful because it's his opinion? that makes no sence... If I call someone an ass hole that's disrespectful even if though it's my opinion... And actually someone can call a statement ignorant when it's ignorant, that doesn't make their statement ignorant (lmao). The fact that there will never be a best ever is precisely why I say his saying "Manning is hands down the greatest quarterback" ignorant. He did not just say he thinks Manning is the best ever, he said that there's no reason for debate, that Manning is on another level.</div> Sure you can say someones an asshole, but thats just making yourself look like an asshole, And in his eyes manning is hands down the best qb ever. In his eyes there is no room for debate and manning will not be challanged. BUT AGAIN THATS HIS OPINION, When the sports annoucners say that "ravens are hands down the best defense in the league" do you call that ignorance? or dare i say disrespectful? His statement is not ignorant because he is not picking the worse quaterback and saying he is hands down the best qb ever, he is picking a quater that is high up there and one that could be one of the best. BUT AGAIN ITS HIS OPINION AND WETHER OR NOT ITS TRUE YOU HAVE TO RESPECT IT, because he is not saying that someone is an asshole, he gave a resonable opinion and your bashing it like he is going around saying that Manning is an asshole, or something of that sort.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>If titles mean that much... Well then I guess we should be debating between Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana because they each have 4 Super Bowl Rings, dont they?</div> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.</div> Lets at least mention the glaring fact that Favre threw only 4 passes in his first year...And that is interesting, "No you just have to have one". Is that to say that the other super bowl wins don't matter? You want to talk about flawed logic, I'd like to understand how Marino's lack of a Super Bowl win discredits his stats, but Bradshaw and Montana having 3 more then Manning means nothing...</div> Ok, farve wasnt good enough to start his first year. Thats a knock on him. However, all the gaps between manning and farve are bigger than his best season, so it doesnt really matter, manning still wins. As for the sack thing, that has less to do with line being vastly superior and more to do with the fact manning gets rid of ball afaster than farve. Finally, manning actually runs offense and farve has plays called for him. Farve rally doesnt stack up. Oops, I guess farve could have less sacks if he didnt make deals, guess being a cheater isnt all tainted super bowl wins.
Farve is a great qb, no matter what anyone says... cheater or not hes a great qb. Not only is he good but he represents the never quit never say never attitude and the nfl dont have much of them left. Even though i dont support his decision to play again, it still shows the love for the game every year no matter what. Hes not only had it easy but hes had it hard and every year he comes back with the same mentality. Farve is a great qb, but manning is just a better leader, he can rally his team to a win and farve just hasnt been able to do that. Manning is a great qb possibly one of the best ever, farve is a real good qb and never quits. Either way you look at it they are both great qbs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>If titles mean that much... Well then I guess we should be debating between Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana because they each have 4 Super Bowl Rings, dont they?</div> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.</div> What happens if Manning plays the next 8 years and plays worse than Favre or Elway did to close out their careers? My point is. You might be right. He might just be the best ever but his career isn't done yet. I remember people were crowning Tom Brady 2 years ago. Even Favre when he won his first Super Bowl was the next big thing. The NFL is to surprising for me to think Manning can keep up his statistical dominance for the next 10 years. It would not shock me to see Manning never reach the Super Bowl again and for him to fall short of the records. Anything can happen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>If titles mean that much... Well then I guess we should be debating between Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana because they each have 4 Super Bowl Rings, dont they?</div> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.</div> What happens if Manning plays the next 8 years and plays worse than Favre or Elway did to close out their careers? My point is. You might be right. He might just be the best ever but his career isn't done yet. I remember people were crowning Tom Brady 2 years ago. Even Favre when he won his first Super Bowl was the next big thing. The NFL is to surprising for me to think Manning can keep up his statistical dominance for the next 10 years. It would not shock me to see Manning never reach the Super Bowl again and for him to fall short of the records. Anything can happen.</div> Brady will probably go down as 2nd best QB of all time. Farve will never be top 1000 in my book obviously, since i dont reward cheaters. Obviosuly pakcer fans will feel different.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> No, you just have to have one. I will compare marino stat wise. I think manning will come out on top anyways. As for cheater . . err favre first 9 Manning vs Farve Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6700 yards Comp % 64.0 61.1 Manning by 2.9% YPA 7.69 7.1 manning by .59 ypa TDs 275 235 Manning by 40 td % 5.62% 5.40% manning by .22% INT 139 141 Manning by 2 Int % 2.84% 3.24% Manning by .4 % Sacked 170 267 Manning by 97 20 + 466 379 Manning by 87 40+ 84 63 Manning by 21 Qb rating 94.4 87.0 Manning by 7.4 Thats every stat. Manning is better in every conceivable way.</div> Lets at least mention the glaring fact that Favre threw only 4 passes in his first year...And that is interesting, "No you just have to have one". Is that to say that the other super bowl wins don't matter? You want to talk about flawed logic, I'd like to understand how Marino's lack of a Super Bowl win discredits his stats, but Bradshaw and Montana having 3 more then Manning means nothing...</div> Ok, farve wasnt good enough to start his first year. Thats a knock on him. However, all the gaps between manning and farve are bigger than his best season, so it doesnt really matter, manning still wins. As for the sack thing, that has less to do with line being vastly superior and more to do with the fact manning gets rid of ball afaster than farve. Finally, manning actually runs offense and farve has plays called for him. Farve rally doesnt stack up. Oops, I guess farve could have less sacks if he didnt make deals, guess being a cheater isnt all tainted super bowl wins.</div> Manning gets 3 plays to choose from before every snap, not exactly drawing them up in the dirt every play... Also, how about Favre's 3 NFL MVP's? How about the fact that Favre has somewhere around 35 4th quarter comebacks (I think I read somewhere that they don't publish that stat for some reason...)Marino's stats after 9 years compared to Manning's: Manning vs Marino Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6692 yards Comp % 64.0 59.1 Manning by 4.9% YPA 7.69 7.5 manning by .19 ypa TDs 275 266 Manning by 9 td % 5.62% 5.62% tie INT 139 149 Manning by 10 Int % 2.84% 3.15% Manning by .31 % Sacked 170 125 Marino by 45 Qb rating 94.4 88.53 Manning by 5.87 So look, I will concede the fact that Manning has started his career off faster than any other qb, but I do not see how anyone could look at the stats and say Manning is hands down the greatest ever. He only has one Super Bowl win. Also lets look at post season numbers: Manning vs Marino vs Favre Yards 3495 4510 4902 Comp % 61 56 61 TDs 18 32 34 INT 15 24 26 As for your whole "Favre is a cheater" that is such a joke... Let me yous a line of yours, just because Favre has tore up the Bears D so many times and made you "cry yourself to sleep" doesn't make him a cheater.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'> Lets at least mention the glaring fact that Favre threw only 4 passes in his first year...And that is interesting, "No you just have to have one". Is that to say that the other super bowl wins don't matter? You want to talk about flawed logic, I'd like to understand how Marino's lack of a Super Bowl win discredits his stats, but Bradshaw and Montana having 3 more then Manning means nothing...</div> Ok, farve wasnt good enough to start his first year. Thats a knock on him. However, all the gaps between manning and farve are bigger than his best season, so it doesnt really matter, manning still wins. As for the sack thing, that has less to do with line being vastly superior and more to do with the fact manning gets rid of ball afaster than farve. Finally, manning actually runs offense and farve has plays called for him. Farve rally doesnt stack up. Oops, I guess farve could have less sacks if he didnt make deals, guess being a cheater isnt all tainted super bowl wins.</div> Manning gets 3 plays to choose from before every snap, not exactly drawing them up in the dirt every play... Also, how about Favre's 3 NFL MVP's? How about the fact that Favre has somewhere around 35 4th quarter comebacks (I think I read somewhere that they don't publish that stat for some reason...)Marino's stats after 9 years compared to Manning's: Manning vs Marino Yards 37586 30894 manning by 6692 yards Comp % 64.0 59.1 Manning by 4.9% YPA 7.69 7.5 manning by .19 ypa TDs 275 266 Manning by 9 td % 5.62% 5.62% tie INT 139 149 Manning by 10 Int % 2.84% 3.15% Manning by .31 % Sacked 170 125 Marino by 45 Qb rating 94.4 88.53 Manning by 5.87 So look, I will concede the fact that Manning has started his career off faster than any other qb, but I do not see how anyone could look at the stats and say Manning is hands down the greatest ever. He only has one Super Bowl win. Also lets look at post season numbers: Manning vs Marino vs Favre Yards 3495 4510 4902 Comp % 61 56 61 TDs 18 32 34 INT 15 24 26 As for your whole "Favre is a cheater" that is such a joke... Let me yous a line of yours, just because Favre has tore up the Bears D so many times and made you "cry yourself to sleep" doesn't make him a cheater.</div> Cheating makes him a cheater. Look he was good, just all in doubt cuz of cloud of suspicion. How much was him, how much was deals?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>show me a shred of evidence that Favre cheated</div> Cant find video, I am assuming that is another favre deal to keep it off the internet
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>show me a shred of evidence that Favre cheated</div> http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/nfl/2002/..._strahan_vt.jpg Cant find video, I am assuming that is another favre deal to keep it off the internet</div> Are you kidding me? Since when is sliding to avoid a big hit cheating? Qb's do it all the time...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Cheating makes him a cheater.</div> Sliding to avoid a hit is not *cheating*. In order for some action to be considered cheating, there has to be some *rule* that he violated. The *Denver Broncos*, on the other hand, are cheaters because they break the rules both on and off the field. In fact, they practically *wrote the book on it*: On the Field: *Illegal* chop blocks - the standard mode of operation for Denver offensive linemen. In 1987, the NFL made a major rule change with respect to pass blocking: During passing plays, an offensive player cannot chop block (block a defender below the thigh while the defensive player is already engaging another offensive player) Denver's Herndon, Shanahan Apologize To Chargers' Williams http://www.cbssprtsline.com/nfl/story/5981625 Broncos' Neil Fined for Clip on Patriots' Cox - Breaks Cox's Leg http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1272089.html Broncos Have the Dirtiest Players - 3 in Top 10 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/play.../poll.dirtiest/ Or in some cases, the NFL creates new rules for blocking in an attempt to curb Denver's unethical style of play. After what happened to Bengals defensive tackle Tony Williams: "Players cannot run, dive into, cut, or throw their bodies against or on an opponent who is out of the play or should not have reasonably anticipated such contact." http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/9606522/1 "It's dirty, there's no question about it," Hayward said. "It's a dirty way to play. But they use it because it works. That's why you're seeing more teams use it. It works. That doesn't make it right. The league has tried to do stuff to make it safer, but they haven't done enough. It's a way a guy can get seriously hurt. It's a dirty system." "In 2004, Cincinnati Bengals defensive tackle Tony Williams was cut down by Broncos tackle George Foster in a nationally televised game, a block that broke Williams' ankle. It was a block away from the play. Earlier that year, Broncos left tackle Matt Lepsis broke the leg of Jaguars defensive end Paul Spicer when he cut him down after he was beaten with a quick inside move. It was different than a normal cut, but a cut nonetheless, and borderline cheap." Off the Field: Shanahan Lies About Plummer's Injury http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/6642966 (Note: Shanahan avoided a fine or penalty but agreed his actions were unethical) Broncos Fined and Lose 3rd Round Pick - Cheating Salary Cap http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7687802 "The National Football League Management Council, the NFL Players Association, and the Denver Broncos have agreed to a resolution of a salary cap circumvention case involving an investigation into undisclosed agreements with certain Broncos players during the period of 1996-1998." Denver won 2 Superbowls during that period. Need I say more?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Cheating makes him a cheater.</div> Sliding to avoid a hit is not *cheating*. In order for some action to be considered cheating, there has to be some *rule* that he violated.</div> Conspiring beforehand to make sure a player reaches statistical plateau is cheating. FYI - that is probably the onbly time farve had a naked bootleg to in the 4th quarter with a lead taht farve could have just taken a knee and won the game instead. Coincidence? NO Cheating? YES
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Cheating makes him a cheater.</div> Sliding to avoid a hit is not *cheating*. In order for some action to be considered cheating, there has to be some *rule* that he violated.</div> Conspiring beforehand to make sure a player reaches statistical plateau is cheating. FYI - that is probably the onbly time farve had a naked bootleg to in the 4th quarter with a lead taht farve could have just taken a knee and won the game instead. Coincidence? NO Cheating? YES</div> what's next, u gonna show a pic of Favre and Strahan shaking hands? and say that was them making their deal? This is the most unfounded argument I have ever heard... You might as well be calling a WR a cheater for pulling back when they go over the middle and are about to get layed our by a linebacker... Just b/c it happened to be the sack that broke the record does not make it cheating... What should players have a list of the other team's players that are about to break records? Should a RB make sure he runs away from defenders close to breaking the record for most tackles or forced fumbles?
I like Brett Favre, but it's awful shady to be running a naked boot with an aging QB in the last regular season game when your headed for the playoffs. So, while I disagree with BF1 on a number of issues, THIS is NOT an unfounded argument.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'>Manning is great not because of him alone, but because of who is around him too. How do you guys think Manning would have done if he had Caldwell and Gaffney instead of Harrison and Wayne? The obvious answer would be "not as well" because Wayne and Harrison are elite receivers that have a ton of chemistry with Manning. Brady threw for 4,110 yards in 2005 when he had Branch and Givens. I know that Manning's passing yards blow Brady's out of the water but you also need to realize that Harrison and Manning have been playing together since Manning came into the league. Wayne has been there since 2001 so he has been with Manning a long time too. Anyway, my point is that Manning gets to keep his receivers for a very long time and Brady has different receivers almost every season so it is really like comparing apples to oranges. Brady was getting close to Manning in 2005 when he had some significant time with Branch and Givens. Brady in '05 - 4,110 yards Manning in '05 - 3,747 yards Oops, Brady had more yards than Manning in '05.</div> And the Colts still beat them TWICE. Oops.</div> And the Colts and Pats both beat up on the Dolphins. Oops.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I like Brett Favre, but it's awful shady to be running a naked boot with an aging QB in the last regular season game when your headed for the playoffs. So, while I disagree with BF1 on a number of issues, THIS is NOT an unfounded argument.</div> He ran the same play earlier in the game... How can you honestly believe that he gave him the sack, that's ridiculous. It started out as a running play and there was miscommunication when Favre changed it to a boot leg, that's why Strahan got in unblocked and that's why Favre slid to avoid the hit.
