<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> But the naked part of a naked boot means that your QB is totally exposed and that would be a stupid call to make with an aging QB when you have a 9 point lead with less than 3 minutes and are going to the playoffs. What makes it particularly stupid is that it was run to the side where the NFL sack leader would be waiting for him. If your trying to run out the clock, just call a run play.</div> Neil O'Donnell was paid by Larry Brown before the Superbowl. Larry said to him, "Hey Neil, I'll pay you to throw me a pick in the game, hopefully I will get the MVP award, and you will get paid for your help". So O'Donnell throws a pick to a wide open Brown. See how rediculous this sounds? Farve is the ultimate competitor. It is completely out of his character to pull something like that, especially knowing that the whole world is watching. What keeps getting overlooked is the fact that Farve is a human being and is prone to mistakes and miscommunication just as much as every other player on that offense.</div> I disagree. I like Favre, but I think that the years of cheesehead worship has made him a little arrogant. I could see him giving up a sack for his buddy when he has the game is in the bag. It's the same arrogance that makes him believe there's nothing wrong with his sticking his nose in a teammate's contract negotiations. I'm not saying he's total jerk, but I think his ego is a little bigger than it should be and he does some things that he shouldn't. He probably thinks it's no big deal.</div> Hmmm, he's arrogant, gave up a sack for an opponent to help him break a record, sticks his nose where it doesn't belong, and doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. If he gave up the sack on purpose and didn't see anything wrong with it, then why would he deny it? If he is indeed so arrogant and didn't see anything wrong with purposely getting sacked to allow Strahan to break the single season sack record, then why would he say he didn't do it?
Brett probably sees it as a white lie. Perhaps Strahan wasn't in on it. Perhaps it was more of a gift and Brett never intended for Strahan to know it was a gift and he thought he had sold it well enough. I think he's so used to Packer fans falling in line that he didn't count on people outside of the Packers fan base calling him on it. For the most part, Brett would be right about that.
LOL BF1 you're always good for a laugh. The scary thing is I'm starting to think you're serious but it keeps things fun here in the off season. Even as a die hard Favre worshiper I'll will give you the play was ?able. Even the O-line let out a few grumblings cause the didn't want to give up the record, but to call out a big conspiracy is just funny. Even if it was I don't know if cheatings the word for it. Isn't cheating usually referred to when you do something illegal for personal gain. Now I'm a fair guy so I let you convince me if you can seriously answer both questions. What did he do illegal and what did he have to gain by it?
I honestly think that it's crazy to think Favre would even think about taking a sack to let Strahan break the record. Favre loves football and wouldn't do anything to undermine the rules or integrity of it.
It is not like Favre woke up that morning and said "If Strahan gets a shot I will dive for him to get the record." It was a split second decision, If he was put in the situation again, he may do something diff.
I think the only other logical choice Favre could of had would of been to try and spin away, which would run the risk of getting injured so why not just slide, lose a couple yards, and keep the clock running?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think the only other logical choice Favre could of had would of been to try and spin away, which would run the risk of getting injured so why not just slide, lose a couple yards, and keep the clock running?</div> A more logical choice would have been not to make a illegal deal with strahan and cheat others out of the record.
C'mon BF1 don't avoid my question. All I said you had to do to end this argument was explain what Favre did that was illegal and what he had to gain from it since that is the defination of cheating to me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BJames1156)</div><div class='quotemain'>It is not like Favre woke up that morning and said "If Strahan gets a shot I will dive for him to get the record." It was a split second decision, If he was put in the situation again, he may do something diff.</div> Because the play coincided with a record breaking statistic, we are seeing the most non-sensical responses from fans of his division rivals. I'm not saying that they are the only ones to make criticism of his play, but I do think that there is an underlying envy toward that quarterback in general, for what that one guy did for the GB franchise. You would be hard pressed to find another QB who both won a Superbowl and played at a higher level than most who have walked the earth. Farve is everything you want in a quarterback, a guy who you would build your whole team around, a guy who can bring home a Lombardi trophy. If there is any shadow of a doubt that he is possibly one of the greatest, his detractors will amplify anything they can to increase that doubt.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BJames1156)</div><div class='quotemain'>It is not like Favre woke up that morning and said "If Strahan gets a shot I will dive for him to get the record." It was a split second decision, If he was put in the situation again, he may do something diff.</div> Because the play coincided with a record breaking statistic, we are seeing the most non-sensical responses from fans of his division rivals. I'm not saying that they are the only ones to make criticism of his play, but I do think that there is an underlying envy toward that quarterback in general, for what that one guy did for the GB franchise. You would be hard pressed to find another QB who both won a Superbowl and played at a higher level than most who have walked the earth. Farve is everything you want in a quarterback, a guy who you would build your whole team around, a guy who can bring home a Lombardi trophy. If there is any shadow of a doubt that he is possibly one of the greatest, his detractors will amplify anything they can to increase that doubt.</div> I have no misgivings against Favre. All I know is that I watched that whole game and when I saw that play it looked entirely intentional. The announcers thought so, there were grumblings from teammates, and even Strahan alluded to the fact that it was an odd play. I don't think we are talking about some big conspiracy here - the game was basically over - there was really nothing the Giants could do to win that game. I really don't think there was money under the table (as in the analogy of intentionally throwing a pick for pay), and I doubt there was an arrangement before hand. I just think that Favre was being 'nice'. But that's my opinion. If Green & Gold fans want to believe that he didn't dive intentionally, that's fine. Oh, and the definition of cheater is rather broad: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>v.tr. 1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. 2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land. 3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye. 4. To elude; escape: cheat death. v.intr. 1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud. 2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards. 3. Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse. 4. Baseball. To position oneself closer to a certain area than is normal or expected: The shortstop cheated toward second base.</div>
Ok, so perhaps the play looked "odd". Most plays at the end of a game are odd. When you kneel down to run out the clock, knowing that the game is in hand, is "odd", meaning that you would never intentionally kneel down at 10 minutes left in the first quarter. Farve not expending the energy to throw it somewhere or do a "spin move" at that point is not relevant in this fan's eyes. If the game were in-hand, then it really doesn't matter how he resolves it just so that he doesn't get hurt by the *most dominating defensive end* of that season while he is dead to rights for a sack. Farve is also the leader of the offense, so him deciding that a sack is easiest and less painful for moving on at that point should not affect the *pride* that his offensive linemen feel about giving up such sacks. The bottom line is to win the game, and be healthy to play next week, not whether or not Wahl goes to the Pro Bowl based on Farve's decision to take the sack with less resistance at that point. That's my opinion.
If this wasn't the record breaking sack there'd be no argument. If you just think about the play; less then 3 minutes left, Packers are trying to run out the clock with a 9 point lead, the play called is some sort of a running play, Favre decides to call an audible for a boot leg, not everyone catches the play change, the ball is snapped, Franks allows Strahan by him, Favre slides to avoid getting hit. where's the controversy? You don't agree with the play change? So what!?!? I mean I'm sure there has been more than 1 occasion that a qb has made an unpopular play change. It's not like Favre sat back in the pocket for 5 seconds, saw Strahan coming and dropped to the ground...
Also, saying that you have no misgivings with Favre doesn't remove the influence of media on your perception. The media is always the first perspective that you hear or see that you rely on for your own interpretation of what happend. This much has been admitted by any of the detractors. This includes you, VF. "The announcers thought so..." You then forget about all the factors and variables leading up to the play, and only focus on the easy sack that Strahan got.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, saying that you have no misgivings with Favre doesn't remove the influence of media on your perception. The media is always the first perspective that you hear or see that you rely on for your own interpretation of what happend. This much has been admitted by any of the detractors. This includes you, VF. "The announcers thought so..." You then forget about all the factors and variables leading up to the play, and only focus on the easy sack that Strahan got.</div> By "factors and variables leading up to the play," do you mean the fact that the Packers had a 9 point lead with less than 3 minutes when Favre decides to roll out unprotected into the face of the NFL's leading sacker? Personally, I would have called a running play that had a much lower percentage of turning into disaster. Everybody keeps asking for a motive and I think the motive is the easy. Favre and Strahan are friends.
Hmmm, so where is it again that it says making a bad decision is against the rules? And wow, I thought the refs were slacking, but man, if bad decisions are against the rules.... they're really letting guys off the hook...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, so where is it again that it says making a bad decision is against the rules? And wow, I thought the refs were slacking, but man, if bad decisions are against the rules.... they're really letting guys off the hook...</div> Bad decisions aren't against the rules. No one is saying that it is. However, a veteran QB making that kind of decision given the circumstances really raises questions. If Favre gave up the sack on purpose, that's not against the rules per se, but it does fly in the face of the integrity of the game and cheapens the game and the sack record in particular.
Ok Favre doing a bootleg is not suspicious. Favre has done bootlegs consistently through his career, it's a play he's very comfortable with. It's really not a risky play, since a qb can slide (like he did) which then doesn't risk the qb getting hurt, or losing the ball. But I just do not see what the big deal is with this, he audibled to a boot leg, it wasn't the first, or last, time he did that. There was just under 3 minutes left in the game, so they still needed a couple 1st downs to clench the win, so Favre figured to try and catch them off guard, how does that not make sence? Even if you don't agree with it, you have to be able to see how someone could come to make that decision.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ok Favre doing a bootleg is not suspicious. Favre has done bootlegs consistently through his career, it's a play he's very comfortable with. It's really not a risky play, since a qb can slide (like he did) which then doesn't risk the qb getting hurt, or losing the ball. But I just do not see what the big deal is with this, he audibled to a boot leg, it wasn't the first, or last, time he did that. There was just under 3 minutes left in the game, so they still needed a couple 1st downs to clench the win, so Favre figured to try and catch them off guard, how does that not make sence? Even if you don't agree with it, you have to be able to see how someone could come to make that decision.</div> Nope, I don't see calling a naked boot with under 3 minutes and a 9 point lead. I did some digging because it's been awhile since the incident. I thought Favre had made some statements that helped fuel the speculation and I was right. Favre, who joked during the week that he might "work out a little side deal" with Strahan to allow him to get the record, called a run in the huddle, teammates said. That was from a Chris Mortensen article, which I will give a link. Notice the words that are in parenthesis. Those are because Mortensen is quoting Brett Favre. "I was going to joke with Mike to say: `On the first play, I'll give you one sack, that way you can relax the rest of the game to let me have a little fun,"' Favre said during the week. http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/0106/1306705.html
Here's a link to an AP article that appeared on NFL.com BEFORE THE GAME!!! "We're going to do everything we can to keep him out, but I don't know if we're going to keep him away from the record," the Green Bay Packers quarterback said of his offseason golfing buddy. "I might give it to him early. I don't want to say give it to him, ask him if he'll take the next three quarters off. Work out a little side deal." You guys keep knocking BF1 but "work out a little side deal" are words that actually came out of Favre's mouth regarding the sack record and his offseason golfing buddy. From where I stand, any suspicion that Favre gets over the incident he earned. http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/4786359
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, saying that you have no misgivings with Favre doesn't remove the influence of media on your perception. The media is always the first perspective that you hear or see that you rely on for your own interpretation of what happend. This much has been admitted by any of the detractors. This includes you, VF. "The announcers thought so..." You then forget about all the factors and variables leading up to the play, and only focus on the easy sack that Strahan got.</div> "The influence of media..." Maybe the media is right on this one? I'm certainly willing to be wrong on this - we'll never actually know. My perceptions are coming from the game itself which I watched in its entirety. I expect that most GB fans here on the board watched the game (if you didn't, then I would hope you would admit to as much). My opinion is of what I saw. I would love to get this game on tape and send it to everyone so the play can be watched in context. Right now we are arguing about a play that we are all trying to remember - and we all remember it based on what our opinion is of the play. I hardly think anyone is going to admit error based on what we remember. GB fans will be convinced that Favre just made a bad decision and that the play broke down, some non-GB fans will think the same. Others (like myself) will think that Favre was giving a 'gift' to Strahan when it didn't pose a risk to the outcome of the game. And still some will think that the pre-game comments were indicative of a premeditated decision on the part of Favre. If anyone can find a video of the play online, I'd love to see it again.
