I've never been satisfied with the joke of an investigation that the NFL supposedly conducted with the Patriots. What kind of evidence did the Patriots supposedly give to the NFL? What was on the videotapes? What was in the notes? How far back do those videotapes go? What teams were involved? Why hasn't Roger Goodell told the other NFL teams what was found? I think the NFL owners should hire an outside auditor and have Roger Goodell and the New England Patriots investigated. Something smells and I'm not the only one who thinks so.</p> http://www.miamiherald.com/615/story/279039.html</p> One point that shouldn't be ignored is that Goodell told Costas that the Jets incident wasn't an isolated incident.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>One point that shouldn't be ignored is that Goodell told Costas that the Jets incident wasn't an isolated incident.</div></p> Well of course, because all the teams have probably tried and have cheated at a certain point and Goodell knows that.</p> Don't tell me that the other teams are angels now, and only the patriots tried to cheat. </p>
Because when you have idiot fans who are dumb enough to think that the Patriots are the only ones who cheat in some way involving those hand signals and you have others who claim that the Super Bowls are tainted, and the national media won't drop it, that's a lot worse than any other public statement, suspension or fine.</p> Remember how no one cares that Shawne Merriman became the most dominant force on defense since LT by using roids? He got suspended, there was a penalty that made some sense, he served it, and its forgotten.</p> If you want "Belicheat" as you call him to really pay for this, you don't want Goodell to go into detail or to suspend him.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (agoo101284)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Because when you have idiot fans who are dumb enough to think that the Patriots are the only ones who cheat in some way involving those hand signals and you have others who claim that the Super Bowls are tainted, and the national media won't drop it, that's a lot worse than any other public statement, suspension or fine.</p> Remember how no one cares that Shawne Merriman became the most dominant force on defense since LT by using roids? He got suspended, there was a penalty that made some sense, he served it, and its forgotten.</p> If you want "Belicheat" as you call him to really pay for this, you don't want Goodell to go into detail or to suspend him.</p> </div></p> The issue here is that it is against the rules to film hand signals in order to figure them out. There is evidence that the Patriots did this. You seem to want to call people idiots for believing that the Patriots are the only ones filming signals, but where is YOUR evidence that other teams have done so. Again, the issue is FILMING hands signals. Don't you think the Patriots would have exposed other teams to try and save their own butts if this was such a common occurance? Of course, they would have.</p> You can't compare roids to filming hand signals. Shawn Merriman can be tested for roids and the NFL can know if he's on them. Who knows if the Patriots still have film or other notes or not? Also, you can't tell from tests how long Merriman has been taking roids, but Goodell does know that the Jets incident wasn't isolated, so why hasn't he come out and told what the tapes contained? All this has proven is that fans can't trust Goodell or the Patriots and, until an outside audit, of the Patriots and Goodell is conducted then there should be an asteriks by the Patriots records and question marks around Goodell's integrity.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>One point that shouldn't be ignored is that Goodell told Costas that the Jets incident wasn't an isolated incident.</div></p> Well of course, because all the teams have probably tried and have cheated at a certain point and Goodell knows that.</p> Don't tell me that the other teams are angels now, and only the patriots tried to cheat. </p> </div></p> Actually, CK, it obvious that Goodell told Costas that the Jets incident wasn't isolated because he has some evidence that the Patriots did filming at other games. This is about evidence that proves the Patriots cheated, not a deflection about other teams allegedly cheat.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Don't you think the Patriots would have exposed other teams to try and save their own butts if this was such a common occurance? Of course, they would have.</div></p> It's only human nature to try and get an upper hand. I am not Charles Darwin, so, its <u>only a theory on my part.</u></p> Sadly, its also part of human nature to say, "I did it but so did...." Anyone that tries to contend with me on this, think back to when you were little and your mom yelled at you;what did you do?</p> Further, <u>only the Patriots</u> have been admonished to date and Belichick has a track record of questionable behavior or don't secretaries @ Giants HQ count?</p> </p>
Rick Reilly is an idiot. He invited lip readers over to his house to watch football to prove something? That's beyond moronic. How much of an NFL broadcast is focused on an assistant coach giving signals? Most teams have several coaches giving signals with a couple giving dummy signals. That's why Belicheat used video tape, so he could identify the real signal caller. I read in a Peter King article that Belicheat wasn't just looking for signals, but how quickly those signals came in. If he had a team with a slow signal caller, he would use the hurry up offense a little more.</p> Now, I know the Patriot fanbase doesn't like this thread, but lets keep it on topic. This thread is not meant to prove that Patriots are cheaters. That's indisputable. Belicheat has admitted to it and been slapped on the wrist for it. This thread is not meant to defend other teams against the Patriots fans baseless accusations. If someone has proof that a team is cheating, start another thread and post the article. This thread was started to discuss the "investigation" of the Patriots cheating and Goodell not coming clean about what was found. It would be nice if one of the big namewhores of media grew a backbone and asked Goodell what was found and why he hasn't been up front with those findings.</p>
You don't need proof DolfanDale. We know that every team cheats. Every human does somewhere in their part of life. Thats just how we are. You have to accept that.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> It would be nice if one of the big namewhores of media grew a backbone and asked Goodell what was found and why he hasn't been up front with those findings.</p> </div></p> Costas might. Olbermann has no problem being a contrarian & shaking the apple tree when needed. I noticed Dennis Miller has sports commentary show coming soon. Like KO, he has the personality to pull it off & could be outside the mainstream enough to put the screws to Goodell.</p> Could you imagine what would happen to Spygate if Condi Rice had takenthe NFL commish job? rofl!</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rick Reilly is an idiot. He invited lip readers over to his house to watch football to prove something? That's beyond moronic. How much of an NFL broadcast is focused on an assistant coach giving signals? Most teams have several coaches giving signals with a couple giving dummy signals. That's why Belicheat used video tape, so he could identify the real signal caller. I read in a Peter King article that Belicheat wasn't just looking for signals, but how quickly those signals came in. If he had a team with a slow signal caller, he would use the hurry up offense a little more.</p> Now, I know the Patriot fanbase doesn't like this thread, but lets keep it on topic. This thread is not meant to prove that Patriots are cheaters. That's indisputable. Belicheat has admitted to it and been slapped on the wrist for it. This thread is not meant to defend other teams against the Patriots fans baseless accusations. If someone has proof that a team is cheating, start another thread and post the article. This thread was started to discuss the "investigation" of the Patriots cheating and Goodell not coming clean about what was found. It would be nice if one of the big namewhores of media grew a backbone and asked Goodell what was found and why he hasn't been up front with those findings.</p> </div></p> Amazing how you read all that and missed this : "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> You don't need proof DolfanDale. We know that every team cheats. Every human does somewhere in their part of life. Thats just how we are. You have to accept that.</p> </div></p> I don't accept that. I don't cheat and I don't think I'm that special. I think there are people who have high standards and they live up to them. There are men in the NFL that I think have those high standards and you will need proof if your going to convince me otherwise. Tony Dungy is the first coach that comes to mind. Mike Holmgren is the second. Regardless, this is bringing the thread off topic again. This thread is about the "evidence" collected from the Patriotsand Roger Goodell sweeping it under the rug. If you want to make unsubstantiated accusations against other ball clubs, please start another thread.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rick Reilly is an idiot. He invited lip readers over to his house to watch football to prove something? That's beyond moronic. How much of an NFL broadcast is focused on an assistant coach giving signals? Most teams have several coaches giving signals with a couple giving dummy signals. That's why Belicheat used video tape, so he could identify the real signal caller. I read in a Peter King article that Belicheat wasn't just looking for signals, but how quickly those signals came in. If he had a team with a slow signal caller, he would use the hurry up offense a little more.</p> Now, I know the Patriot fanbase doesn't like this thread, but lets keep it on topic. This thread is not meant to prove that Patriots are cheaters. That's indisputable. Belicheat has admitted to it and been slapped on the wrist for it. This thread is not meant to defend other teams against the Patriots fans baseless accusations. If someone has proof that a team is cheating, start another thread and post the article. This thread was started to discuss the "investigation" of the Patriots cheating and Goodell not coming clean about what was found. It would be nice if one of the big namewhores of media grew a backbone and asked Goodell what was found and why he hasn't been up front with those findings.</p> </div></p> Amazing how you read all that and missed this : "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."</p> </div></p> And you missed Jim Fassel's comment that "If someone is that smart, heshould be curing cancer, not coaching football." What's your point? Are we talking about lip-reading or defensive signals which are two entirely different things. Just because someone can lip read doesn't mean that they can understand football signals. Besides, the part that is against the rules is the FILMING of the signals. As far as I know, if you can pick up someone's signals with the naked eye, that's fine. You are not allowed to FILM the signals. FILM is the key word here.</p>
What is the difference, though? They are two ways to go about doing the same thing. If the NFL is fine with people using binoculars, then why isn't the use of a camera allowed? As you stated, teams are apparently allowed to spy on signals (just not with a camera), so if a team doesn't change them up every game then they deserve to lose them all (maybe that's the Dolphins problem?).</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> And you missed Jim Fassel's comment that "If someone is that smart, heshould be curing cancer, not coaching football."</p> </div></p> Gotta give props to a former University of Utah coach for being that pithy.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> so if a team doesn't change them up every game then they deserve to lose them all (maybe that's the Dolphins problem?).</p> </div></p> In the bA loves Irony dept., The phins had a pretty good record a great majority of the time during the Reign of Vanilla Dave (Wannstedt).</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> What is the difference, though? They are two ways to go about doing the same thing. If the NFL is fine with people using binoculars, then why isn't the use of a camera allowed? As you stated, teams are apparently allowed to spy on signals (just not with a camera), so if a team doesn't change them up every game then they deserve to lose them all (maybe that's the Dolphins problem?).</p> </div></p> If you have a pair of binoculars that films action then I might suggest that what you really have is a camera. The rules state that you can't film the signals, so you can't film the signals. Period. Regardless, I keep asking people to stay on topic. The topic of this thread is the "evidence" that the Patriots handed over and Goodell's sweeping it under the rug. If you want to debate allowing the Patriots to cheat because allegedly everyone else does there are other threads that handled that topic. Go find them.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> What is the difference, though? They are two ways to go about doing the same thing. If the NFL is fine with people using binoculars, then why isn't the use of a camera allowed? As you stated, teams are apparently allowed to spy on signals (just not with a camera), so if a team doesn't change them up every game then they deserve to lose them all (maybe that's the Dolphins problem?).</p> </div></p> If you have a pair of binoculars that films action then I might suggest that what you really have is a camera. The rules state that you can't film the signals, so you can't film the signals. Period. Regardless, I keep asking people to stay on topic. The topic of this thread is the "evidence" that the Patriots handed over and Goodell's sweeping it under the rug. If you want to debate allowing the Patriots to cheat because allegedly everyone else does there are other threads that handled that topic. Go find them.</p> </div></p> Ok, so you're just going to dance circles around the question, then?</p> My posts are completely on topic, as they are a logical explanation as to why it went away so quickly. Simply put, it wasn't a big deal. They were doing something that was totally legal, just doing it in an illegal way. The rule does not state "you cannot attempt to steal signals from the opposing staff", it reads "no cameras are to be used by a team officialon the sidelines".</p>
