<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p> I'd rather just leave Kobe over in LA and continue to go with the team we have. I think its a bad idea to trade a 24 year old or 22 year old that are on the upswing, who have no potential lurking injury problems, for a guy thats aging, and has had knee surgery.</p> Its reasonable to assume that Gordon will up his averages to 24 PPG on 58 TS% in two years (when he'll be 26). Two seasons from now, will Kobe be able to match that? The only guard to match that in NBA History, is Michael Jordan, in the 95-96 season. Larry Bird matched it once, in 87-88, and Julius Erving once, in 81-82. So thats TWO swingmen....both Bird/Erving did it at age 31, Jordan at 32....highly unlikely for Kobe to match that more than once. Karl Malone matched that FOUR times, but he's a big man. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the only center to match that, doing it twice, at age 32 and 33. Is Kobe at the level of Jordan, Bird, Malone, and Kareem? I'd say not even close.</p> So if Kobe only has 2 years of being a better offensive player than Gordon...why do you make this trade. Gordon has 7 years of "prime" left, and Deng 9, using the decline at 31 rule that appears to be true for swingmen. Kirk Hinrich, since he is a point guard, will be able to be in a true prime later into his 30's.</p> I'm just not buying a trade for Kobe. It just seems like a bad idea. I know the casual NBA fan will want to trade all the "no name" Bulls players for "the name" in Kobe Bryant, thinking it means championships, but Kobe isn't good as his fans think he is. He is on his own level. Duncan/Lebron/Nash are the hierarchy of the NBA, then Dirk/Wade on their level, than you have Kobe on his level, which is just above T-Mac. He's not that Duncan/Lebron player in which you feel comfortable that he is going to take you far, just by himself. <u>Kobe isn't that good</u>. He's <u>not a franchise player</u>, definitely a franchise cornertsone, but not a franchise player, Lebron/Duncan are the only two franchise players left in the league (wtih Shaq's decline), and those are the only types of players you mortgage large portions of your team for.</p> </p> </div></p> Oh god. You just can't seem to get info through your mind.</p> Again you have to understand, Duncan/LeBron/Nash and every other player you mentioned all have a BETTER TEAM than Kobe. LeBron and Wade are in the east. LeBron has Hughes and Big Z. Wade has Shaq. Duncan has Parker and Ginobili. Nash has Barbosa, Amare and Marion. Dirk has Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. T-Mac has Yao Ming and Shane Battier. While Kobe is stuck with Odom who is always inconsistant and injured and with players like Cook and Sasha last year.</p> Kobe will keep up his level play like its is now for about 3-4 more years. Gordon's prime will never match up to Kobe's. Gordon so far has only shown he can shoot and score. You know how easy he is to replace in any other team? He doesn't constanly start games for a reason you know.</p> Kobe isn't that good? Are you kidding me? Hes not that good but Ben Gordon is a god am I right? How is he NOT a franchise player? Please explain that to me. You have yet to answer alot of our Laker fans questions. LeBron/Duncan the only franchise players? What happened to Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, Amare Stoudemire, Caremlo Anthony, Dirk Nowitski?</p> And where on earth do you come up with those levels? So all of a sudden theres a Kobe level, and then a T-Mac level? Care to explain those levels you came up with?</p> </p> </p>
[quote name='BG7 Lavigne']</p> [quote name='Brian']</p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']</p> Kobe is not the best player in the league first off. Secondly, Kobe does not mean a championship. See LA....he means average team...hardly good enough to make the playoffs.[/quote]</p> First of all, do not argue with me about Kobe not being the best player in the league. I already responded to some of your dumbass posts a while back in the random thought thread about how Kobe is better than Wade and Lebron, yet you never responded back.</p> </p> How the hell is that not a bad offer? For starters, the only attractive piece in the deal is Luol Deng. Then, you surround him with aging vets / nobodies. That is a HORRIBLE deal for the Lakers. I would much rather prefer Terry/Howard and Johnson/Prince/Hamilton over that garbage package any day of the week. You are clearly delusional if you think that package will seel the deal. That package is even worse than the Shaq trade, which gave us two young up and coming players in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. If you think the Lakers are just going to hand you Kobe, think again. We are in no rush to trade him.</p> </p> So? Then Kobe doesn't go to Chicago. Plain and simple. You are making it sound like the Lakers owe it to the Bulls by handing away Kobe for junk. We do not owe the Bulls ANYTHING</p> </p> First of all, the Garnett and Shaq deal are way better thanthat crap you are currently proposing.The Houston and Orlando deal was fair at the time, until Francis got injured. Kobe Bryant is the best player in the league right now. No way will we just throw a fire sale and accept the best deal that's thrown to us. We are in no rush to trade Kobe, definetely not for one of your garbage packages. And if you think this Bulls team can win a championship, good for you. Personally, I feel they are levels away from Phoenix, Dallas, and San Antonio. I would even rank them behind the Celtics and maybe even the Pistons. Continue on with your retarded trade packages. Just keep in mind that if you were the Chicago Bull's GM, and you offered Mitch that retarded package, even Mitch himself would be laughing his ass off</p> </p> </p> [/QUOTE]</p> </p> </p> Why the hell would we trade for an aging Davis an injury prone aging Williams? We already have Critt so we don't need Wright. Your <u>whole</u> post right there was talking about how the Lakers are rebuilding. So their going to rebuild by trading Farmar and Odom for Davis and Williams? Way to make yourself look smart there.</p> We also don't NEED Duhon. We already have a too many PG as it is now, with Critt and Farmar as our youngsters and Fisher as a vet.</p> You are never garunteed the number one lottery pick. Celtics sucked last season and they got the 5th pick. Its not as easy and simple as you think it is. And you don't know for a fact that Gilbert will sign with the Lakers.</p> </p>
Davis, Williams, Duhon, Khryapa, Brown would all be EXPIRING CONTRACTS. Do you even know what that means? Its not about their value as players, its about the value of their expiring contracts.</p>
BG7: Which one is closest to being a franchise player, out of the 3, in their primes: Kobe, Deng, or Gordon?</p>
BG7 is talking about trading for expiring contracts, so that you can open up alot of cap space to either sign a future free agent or draft a future star to sign to a big contract.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mynetsforlife)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> BG7: Which one is closest to being a franchise player, out of the 3, in their primes: Kobe, Deng, or Gordon?</p> </div></p> 1. Kobe 2. Gordon 3. Deng</p> The problem, is that your trading about 7 years of Gordon prime or 9 years of Deng prime for 2 years of Kobe prime. Which makes a Kobe trade not worth it for the Bulls. I think Kobe's best basketball is behind him. This year will be a wash for him imo. If you trade from him now, you have that ruptured chemistry from such a big roster turnover, that you probably don't win it this year. So then you only have one year to win the championship, before Kobe enters the age where his decline is probable.</p> </p>
A question for BG7 and everyone else....which player comes to mind when someone asks you who can score at their will, is unstoppable, pretty much every game makes shots that no other players would be able to, etc etc?</p> </p> For me it's Kobe, the greatest after MJ.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mynetsforlife)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> BG7: Which one is closest to being a franchise player, out of the 3, in their primes: Kobe, Deng, or Gordon?</p> </div></p> 1. Kobe 2. Gordon 3. Deng</p> The problem, is that your trading about 7 years of Gordon prime or 9 years of Deng prime for 2 years of Kobe prime. Which makes a Kobe trade not worth it for the Bulls. I think Kobe's best basketball is behind him. This year will be a wash for him imo. If you trade from him now, you have that ruptured chemistry from such a big roster turnover, that you probably don't win it this year. So then you only have one year to win the championship, before Kobe enters the age where his decline is probable.</p> </p> </div></p> 2 years of Kobe prime? Is Kobe 40 years old? What the hell are you talking about?</p> Kobe has at least 5 years at this level. (probably more)</p> </p>
Aren't Garnett and Allen older? Why is everyone saying they are going to rule the east?</p> Bulls putting out:</p> PG: Duhon</p> SG: Kobe</p> SF: Deng</p> PF: Noah</p> C: Wallace</p> Makes you an instant title contender, and better than anyone in the east.</p> </p>
Thats what we're trying to tell BG7.</p> Just having Kobe alone on your team, you'll make the playoffs in the east. Add Wallace, the best defender (in the east), and they make the ECF. Add Hinrich, and its their title.</p> So hell yeah, they should trade Deng, Gordon, all their money, half of chicago, and whatever else it takes to get Kobe, THE GREATEST after MJ.</p>
[quote name='BG7 Lavigne']</p> Seems like you have failed to come to grips with what trading Kobe means. Trading Kobe means the Lakers are rebuilding.[/quote]</p> OMGZZZ!!!!!! Really??? If we trade Kobe, we're going to REBUILD????!!!!! WTF!!!! All this time I've thought that trading Kobe means we are going to contend for a championship!!! How insightful!</p> </p> So we're going to trade away the best player in the league for one young talent (who isn't even an All-Star, and probably won't become an All-Star in the West) and expiring contracts? NEXT. Like I said before, this deal is probably even worse than the Shaq trade. Do you have any idea how much crap Mitch got for that Shaq trade? If you think he's just going to give Kobe away for a marginal All-Star and expiring contracts, yes my friend, you are delusional.</p> </p> Easier said than done. How do you know the Heat will accept? You have no idea. We might as well just trade Brian Cook and Sasha Vujacic to the Bobcats</p> </p> Whoo-pee!!! Or we can just wait until the2009-2010 offseason and have Lamar Odom's contract expire, and Kobe Bryant opting out of his deal, giving us acrap load of money under the salary cap as well. </p> </p> LMAO! Derek Fisher-Jordan Famar-Javaris Crittenton-Sasha Vujacic-Coby Karl-Derrick Rose??? Another point guard? Please stop. Personally, I feel that when healthy, this Lakers team will be able to make some noise this season. Will they win a championship? No. But I do believe they will be competitive. There is absolutely no reason to tank unless we absolutely HAVE to, and we don't. Kobe is still under contract for 2 more seasons. A lot can change in 2 seasons. In 2 seasons, maybe Kobe will finally be able to patch up his relationship with the organization? Maybe Bynum, Farmar, Crittenton, and all the rest of the younsters will reach their potential? A lot of things can happen in 2 years. That is why I want us to wait if nothing attractive appears. We are not forced to trade Kobe. In 2 years of time, maybe Kobe's best chances of winning a championship will be in Los Angeles. You never know. All I know is that I'm not willing to let Kobe go in a horrible trade just because we are "forced" to. We are not forced to do anything. We are the Los Angeles Lakers, not the Los Angeles Kobes. Kobe Bryant plays for the organization, and until 2010, he has no option but to play here.</p> </p> Oh really, talk about speculation. You never know what's going to happen, and I'd much rather keep Kobe rather than trading him off for some random garbage package</p> </p> </p> </p> [/QUOTE]</p> </p>
Iverson's still playing at an All-Star level at 32 years old and he's not nearly the off-season workout freak Kobe has been his entire career. Kobe has dropped weight to prolong his career in the league. He expects to play at a high level for another 10 seasons. Maybe he won't be the same athlete he is in his prime, but he'll make up for it with his basketball IQ.</p> Steve Nash is 33 and won back to back MVP awards. Jason Kidd is 34 years old and is still one of the premiere point guards in the league and can still dominate a game.</p> BG17 you don't think Kobe can play at a high level for at least that long?</p> I can understand you don't want Kobe on the Bulls thus you have a bias for not giving up much for him, but trying to rationalize these deals you come with without admitting you're biased don't make sense. You're posing all these "ifs" about Kobe and underselling him just because you don't want the Bulls to trade for him.</p> The if game works both ways doesn't it? What if Ben Gordon never improves and has an injury because he's undersized for his position? What if more teams in the East counter act the Celtics acquiring KG and start trading their young talent for proven talent and the Bulls fall behind in the talent race?</p>
I just can't see Kobe leaving L.A anytime soon. There has been many rumors about him going to the Bulls, but I just can't see it happening...</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Davis, Williams, Duhon, Khryapa, Brown would all be EXPIRING CONTRACTS. Do you even know what that means? Its not about their value as players, its about the value of their expiring contracts.</p> </div></p> I'd much rather keep Odom and an upcoming point guard in Farmar. If we realease Duhon, Khryapa and Brown that means The Lakers traded Kobe for Deng straight up. Again i'd rather do the Mavs trade.</p> And I'm still waiting for you to answer all of our questions.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>My final offer would be: PJ Brown, Luol Deng, Viktar Khryapa, and Chris Duhon for Kobe Bryant and Jordan Farmar.</div></p> If thats whats being discussed then trade talks wouldn't be limited to the bulls. Every single team in the NBA can offer some thing infinitely better than that. The bulls have always been a likely destination because they have many solid pieces to offer; it's going to take those pieces.</p> Kobe for Gordon, Deng, and Kirk sounds a bit more feasible. Maybe you negotiate that down to Duhon instead of Kirk</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'> My final offer would be: PJ Brown, Luol Deng, Viktar Khryapa, and Chris Duhon for Kobe Bryant and Jordan Farmar.</div></p> If thats whats being discussed then trade talks wouldn't be limited to the bulls. Every single team in the NBA can offer some thing infinitely better than that. The bulls have always been a likely destination because they have many solid pieces to offer; it's going to take those pieces.</p> Kobe for Gordon, Deng, and Kirk sounds a bit more feasible. Maybe you negotiate that down to Duhon instead of Kirk</p> </div></p> Yeah, Bulls wouldn't even make the playoffs if they traded Gordon, Deng, and Kirk for Kobe.</p> The reason, why every single team in the NBA can't just make a trade that beats what the Bulls are willing to give up, is because Kobe can limit which teams he goes to, with his no trade clause. If he thinks the team he is going to is giving up too much talent, he will veto it. I think Paxson knows to just let this slide, and jsut wait until this thing entirely blows up. When this thing completely blows up (if it ever does), Kobe won't give a crap about what happens to the Lakers, and will force them to either just have him sit out, or trade him for peanuts. He is wanting to go to a team that is a championship FAVORITE when he gets there. Trading Two of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng is just a lateral moves, breaking even would be the best case scenario, which would just make the Bulls contenders, and not favorites. Kobe wants to feel like he did in LA when Shaq was there, feeling like he's on the team to beat.</p> And its clear that Lakers fans don't grasp that Ben Wallace isn't that good anymore. He is definitely not the best defensive center in the East anymore, and only made All NBA Defensive 2nd team based on reputation, not on merit. Nocioni can score, but he can't pass, and doesn't player very good defense. Duhon is a backup. Joakim Noah is not even a bench player caliber yet. Tyrus Thomas/Aaron Gray/Joe Smith are nice, but they aren't too great either.</p> </p>
I understand we won't be getting Deng, Gordon and Hinrich. I understand we probably won't even get two of them. But in order to get me interested, you need to at least offer a package of Deng, Sefelosha, Thomas, and Brown (expiring). Anything less than that, you can forget it. Kobe's staying in LA.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> I understand we won't be getting Deng, Gordon and Hinrich. I understand we probably won't even get two of them. But in order to get me interested, you need to at least offer a package of Deng, Sefelosha, Thomas, and Brown (expiring). Anything less than that, you can forget it. Kobe's staying in LA.</p> </div></p> Can't see that trade going through. One of the ideas going through when your trading Deng for Kobe, is that you have Sefolosha, who shares many of the same skills as Deng (except the jumpshot). Thomas is the potential superstar big, that Paxson took a swing on. He isn't going to be a throw in.</p> I could see a Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Chris Duhon, Viktar Khryapa, and PJ Brown for Kobe Bryant and Vlad Ram.</p> Problem with this one, of course, is that you can't trade Noah until Dec. 15th.</p> </p>
