Lets face facts

Discussion in 'Brooklyn Nets' started by downunderwonder, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. downunderwonder

    downunderwonder You have now entered area 51!

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    <address>We can jump up and down all day about Franks (lack of) coaching, form slumps by the entire 2nd unit (will the real Boki Nachbar please show up?) and our seemingly pathetic big man rotation but we need to realise some important facts;</address>

    Thorn had very little to use when it came to acquiring players. Very little money, few trading chips and a star opting out to get more money. The market this year was a weaker than average crop that yeilded very few quality players in the Nets price range.</p>

    Last years result is looking more and more like a 'best case scenario'. After a few big wins, the last third of the season was an amazing turn of events considering the RJ and Krstic issues as the nets played with swagger, hustle and brains. Even Josh Boone put up a few respectable lines!</p>

    Our big men are poorly matched together in terms of strengths and weaknesses. Only one true athlete, 3 that all seemingly play beneath the rim and those same 3 lack the acceleration required to maximise the strong points that Kidd brings to a game. Magloire and Collins in the same team is not a good mix since both are bangers limited athletically that rely on toughness and savy to get by. I was excited about Mags, but was unaware that he had seemingly lost the majority of his quickness.</p>

    Richard Jefferson works best when he is in the presence of a superior scorer (See Odom, Lamar). He is meant to be a fabulous second banana, not a bonafide 'star'. His efforts have been nothing short of amazing, but having to carry a team is not what RJ is meant to be doing.</p>

    Wright, Nachbar, Boone and Allen are all 'confidence' players. Allen especially. When going through slumps like this (we were winning playing terrible basketball early on. admit it) these types of players need minutes (for better or worse) to try and get their groove back. At times its hard to watch but 82 games is not a sprint.</p>
    <address>What can be done?</address>

    Frank really needs a better offensive playbook. The reliance on Carter is beyond the joke and more needs to be done to try and get more pick and rolls happening with the big men. Collins also has to be brought in. He isnt being defended and should be taking at least 6 shots a game to try and make the defense second guess. Its all too predictable. I know he cant shoot but its an option that needs to be looked at.</p>

    Sean 'area 51' williams should be rewarded for his hustle. he is the only guy over 6'8'' showing a sign of a pulse. Krstic aint ready. Speaking of which Nenad looks physically limited... is this all we can expect? Or is it just rustyness?</p>

    Wright need more time with Kidd once M.Will and Carter return. Wright playing with S.W., RJ, Kidd and (insert stiff here) will hopefully get him his flow back. Carter plays fine with Marcus and hopefully Marcus's return will result in a Boone resurection.</p>

    </p>

    The million dollar question is though, if we are well below .500, a possibility that is realistic using current form as a projection do we blow it up? Trade a big name for some 'team' guys? Remember after Kidd and KMart, the finals teams were always a good assortment of strengths and matched up pretty darn well on 80% of the NBA.</p>
     
  2. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    How can you say such things? Didn't you read the preseason hype in this forum?</p>

    </p>
     
  3. downunderwonder

    downunderwonder You have now entered area 51!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    How can you say such things? Didn't you read the preseason hype in this forum?</p>

    </p>

    </div></p>

    By read do you mean 'took with a pinch of salt'? If so yes.</p>

    How funny is it that thus far, Jizzy seems to be nostradamus? I love that cynical bastard. KC is on point too... but was it intentional?</p>

    </p>
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Seems to me the Nets are the product of having 3 big stars signed to big contracts, and winning enough to score mediocre draft picks. Krstic has shown flashes of being able to make it a big 4, but he's not done it consistently through his career.</p>
     
  5. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    It can always be worse. You could be a Sonics fan.</p>
     
  6. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    The thing is Krtic will be close to Okur for example, nothing more than that, and thats not a star.</p>

    Age is finally catching up to Kidd and Vince is injury prone, and RJ can't carry the team on his back alone. Every one else except Sean is pretty much garbage. (not offending any of them but they're not good)</p>

    And Boki, he doesn't belong in the NBA. No wonder the Rockets and Hornets didn't keep him.</p>

    Oh and losing House and Moore hurt you guys, they were your bench, or shall I say the heart of the bench. (and yes I know moore started games because nenad was injured)</p>
     
  7. adisodes

    adisodes Member

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    I have to disagree with absolutely everything you said. You can't say we should expect the same things in the playoffs as last years. We relied on jump shots the entire time basically. Boone was playing consistent minutes! He is garbage! Who else did we have? Mikki Moore? I'm sorry but he was supremely overrated. Sure, he can catch a few alley oops but mostly he's terrible too. How can a seven foot center be unable to get a rebound? Krstic is playing like what? 20-25 minutes right now? And he's getting more rebounds than Moore was.</p>

    I think you're either underselling our teams or you're just taking WAYYYY too much into our record (4-4). Losing to Boston is expected, at this point I'm not sure what team can beat them. The Hornets debacle was Jason Collins' fault. We almost beat the second best team in the West without Vince Carter!! Sure, he wasn't shooting well before he got hurt but he changes games even without scoring. We won't have Carter for atleast two weeks apparantly and look at our schedule. It's easy. I say we might lose two of them. We're going to be fine and you, my good friend, need to calm down.</p>
     
  8. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    You are either being overly dramatic or pessimistic or both. The Nets have a good-but-not-great team who could compete with the better teams if everything went just right. At the moment, it's impossible to tell if Nachbar, Malik Allen, Magloire, Boone and Krstic are just finding themselves or this is what we'll get. That's nearly half the team that is playing below our expectations (and that doesn't include Kidd or Carter, who are also playing beneath expectations, but have not been nearly as bad). I had low expectations for Malik Allen, Magloire, and Armstrong from the outset, but at least the first two should be more productive than they have been. The door is open for Boone to get into the rotation, but he's been even worse. But the keys are obviously Boki and Krstic. Boki was just terrific the last half of last year and absolutely terrible now. It just isn't his missed shots; he is making lazy passes, he is turning the ball over while dribbling, and he isn't driving to the hoop like he did last march and april. And of course his defense isn't any better. On the plus side, he hasn't stepped out of bounds when faking a three-point attempt yet.</p>

    The hopes for the Nets for this year were premised on a couple of things:</p>

    (1) Marcus would improve.</p>

    (2) Boki would continue to play well.</p>

    (3) Krstic would return to pre-injury form.</p>

    (4) Wright would develop into somewhat of a scoring threat.</p>

    (5) RJ would return to pre-injury form.</p>

    (6) Magloire would become a post presence.</p>

    All of those things would have to happen for the Nets to do well. Not saying it won't happen, but there is little room for error.</p>
     
  9. adisodes

    adisodes Member

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    CK, in what ways do you think age is catching up to Kidd? He's averaging 11, 10 and 8 right now. I don't see it if its there.</p>
     
  10. adisodes

    adisodes Member

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    Dumpy, I think Boki did step out faking a three against Chicago. I could be wrong though.</p>
     
  11. Rollydog

    Rollydog Member

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    We're an average team now, that's for sure. But I think if the cards play out we can develop into a championship contending team come playoff time.</p>

    A couple things have to happen, none of which strike me as particularly unlikely.</p>

    Nenad has to return to 2006 form. Hit the long jumpers, finish inside, play with confidence. If his knee really is 100% (and that's what everyone issaying), he should be back by April.</p>

    Carter has to make a successful recovery and get adjusted into the offense.</p>

    At least one of the Nets bench smalls (Nachbar, Wright, MWill) has to step up.Wright did it early in the season, but has since begun to peter. Nachbar was great last year, but he's had a dissapointing start. Williams is coming back from the foot injury. If just one of those guys brings his A game during the playoffs we're in a great position. All of them havetalent and potential.</p>

    Sean has to keep his head. If he works hard in practice and maintains his energy level I see no reason why he won't get an all nba defensive team nod. He gives us a player we've never had during the Kidd years, maybe ever, a guy who can lock down the paint. Even KMart couldn't do that. Him and a recovered Nenad could give us a seriously awesome frontcourt. Both guys can finish, Krstic with his finess, Williams with athletic ability. Both guys can step out and hit jump shpts when open, and Nenad has exceptional range.With Magloire, Twin, and RJ or Boki available,our depth up front would be formidable as well. What you're left with is a balanced team. A great 1v1 scorer (Vince), a fantastic transitional player RJ, a solid bench, and a hall of fame PG who is still playing at a high level.</p>

    </p>
     
  12. Teaneck_Armory_Guy

    Teaneck_Armory_Guy Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rollydog)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    </p>

    [snip] maybe ever, a guy who can lock down the paint.[snip]</p>

    </div></p>

    </p>

    Well, there was this guy called Buck Williams.....</p>
     
  13. reganomics813

    reganomics813 Get ready for typos!

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    We're dealing with injuries to major pieces of our team's success and asking way to much from additions who were brought here to be complimentary pieces. Even before the VC injury we were down Marcus and we knew Nenad wasn't 100%. Now we're down VC, Marcus, and Armstrong.</p>

    I do agree that Boki and Boone need to get their heads on straight, Kidd and RJ are doing all they can, and Sean and Anotine have been pleasant suprises. The rest are role players that need to figure out how to be productive players for us and it's difficult to do when we keep losing playmakers and the guys that can set them up and take pressure off them offensively. There's no way this team can play up to it's potential with our current losses and while everyone would like to see one of our role players emerge out of nowhere a la Mikki last season, the reality is that scenario usually doesn't go down for anybody like it did for us last season. We're staying competitively in games despite major losses, I don't know what kind of stuff people are expecting our guys to do outside of that.</p>
     
  14. Rollydog

    Rollydog Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teaneck_Armory_Guy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    Well, there was this guy called Buck Williams.....</p>

    </div></p>

    </p>

    Really? I only saw him play for the Knicks but he isn't known as a shotblocker. He never blocked more than 125 shots in a season. That's less than 1.5 a game.</p>
     
  15. Teaneck_Armory_Guy

    Teaneck_Armory_Guy Member

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    Sorry Rolly, I might have misunderstood your meaning. In his prime, Buck was a strong, strong interior presencse on the defensive end in terms of man-to-man D and rebounding. I don't recall, as you point out, that he blocked all that many shots (tho' he rejected some). Would have to check but I think he made several all-D teams. In any event, he was a guy you wanted inside. A "pure" power forward if there ever was one.</p>
     
  16. Jizzy

    Jizzy Capo Status

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    Inconsistent team.</p>

    We have no true identity. We're not great defensively nor offensively. Some nights you'll see us shut some team down, others outscore them. We're not very good.</p>
     
  17. Jizzy

    Jizzy Capo Status

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    The thing is Krtic will be close to Okur for example, nothing more than that, and thats not a star.</p>

    Age is finally catching up to Kidd and Vince is injury prone, and RJ can't carry the team on his back alone. Every one else except Sean is pretty much garbage. (not offending any of them but they're not good)</p>

    And Boki, he doesn't belong in the NBA. No wonder the Rockets and Hornets didn't keep him.</p>

    Oh and losing House and Moore hurt you guys, they were your bench, or shall I say the heart of the bench. (and yes I know moore started games because nenad was injured)</p>

    </div></p>

    Wow, and I thought I was over-dramatic. If Boki doesn't belong in the NBA, Tony Allen, Glen Davis, and the rest of the Celtic scrubs should not either.</p>
     
  18. downunderwonder

    downunderwonder You have now entered area 51!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (adisodes)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    I have to disagree with absolutely everything you said. You can't say we should expect the same things in the playoffs as last years. We relied on jump shots the entire time basically. Boone was playing consistent minutes! He is garbage! Who else did we have? Mikki Moore? I'm sorry but he was supremely overrated. Sure, he can catch a few alley oops but mostly he's terrible too. How can a seven foot center be unable to get a rebound? Krstic is playing like what? 20-25 minutes right now? And he's getting more rebounds than Moore was.</p>

    I think you're either underselling our teams or you're just taking WAYYYY too much into our record (4-4). Losing to Boston is expected, at this point I'm not sure what team can beat them. The Hornets debacle was Jason Collins' fault. We almost beat the second best team in the West without Vince Carter!! Sure, he wasn't shooting well before he got hurt but he changes games even without scoring. We won't have Carter for atleast two weeks apparantly and look at our schedule. It's easy. I say we might lose two of them. We're going to be fine and you, my good friend, need to calm down.</p>

    </div></p>

    </p>

    I think I may have been unable to articulate my point it seems, since I agree with what you just said. Im saying dont expect what happened last year since it was a best case scenario. With the current team, the interesting big man rotation and the enigma that is VC.... what can we expect? 33 wins? 50 wins? Since everyone other than 4 players on our roster seems to be auditioning for a D-League spot every 2-3 games how can my comments be an overreaction?</p>
     
  19. Belarus

    Belarus Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shard)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    It can always be worse. You could be a Sonics fan.</p>

    </div></p>

    not true. you guys will probably be in the lottery this year too and maybe even #1 pick. Just imagine in ~2 years: Ridnour, Durant, "#1,2,3 pick", Green, Wilcox. that's a pretty nice line-up. on the other hand seems like we stuck with 2 round play-off exit and therefore - low round picks. eather suck, or win!</p>
     
  20. Belarus

    Belarus Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    The hopes for the Nets for this year were premised on a couple of things:</p>

    (1) Marcus would improve.</p>

    (2) Boki would continue to play well.</p>

    (3) Krstic would return to pre-injury form.</p>

    (4) Wright would develop into somewhat of a scoring threat.</p>

    (5) RJ would return to pre-injury form.</p>

    (6) Magloire would become a post presence.</p>

    </div></p>

    so far - only one out six works [​IMG]</p>

    </p>
     

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