Been saying it for a while, Rod Thorn is an overrated GM. Outside of the Kidd, Vinceand RJ trades, he hasnt done anything particualrly well. He overpaid a scrub in Collins to 6 mil a year!! Think about that, Collins for averaging less then a pt. a game and about two reb. a game is getting6 mil a YEAR! He also overpaid RJ by 30 mil. There goes the money saved on K-Mart. Then he doesnt trade Vince last year and basically bids against himself and overpays him. He should have lowballed him. Acutally, he should have traded him last year when he was an expiring contract. Dont even get started on his drafting. Krstic, marcus and Sean were good picks but as long as Granger is in the league, Wright will NEVER be the right pick. David Lee. Worst of all, free agent signings. Fuhget about it..</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rebuilding sucks.</p> The Celtics were trying to trade Paul Pierce but couldn't get anything back that they liked, so they reversed course and went for broke.</p> The truth is that the Nets don't have much to build around for the future, and if they trade Kidd they will need several high draft picks and a lot of luck to become a title contender again.</p> A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</p> Maybe Memphis would listen to an RJ/Sean Williams offer for Gasol since they are the only players on the Nets with high stock right now. Who knows?</p> I doubt it matters because Rod Thorn has been a complete pussy and never made the moves that would have put the Nets over the top. It's probably too late now, but it's still worth one last REAL try.</p> </div></p> i dont understand you. One day, you want to keep the team intact, the next day you want to blow it up. taking lessons from Cpaw?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rebuilding sucks.</p> The Celtics were trying to trade Paul Pierce but couldn't get anything back that they liked, so they reversed course and went for broke.</p> The truth is that the Nets don't have much to build around for the future, and if they trade Kidd they will need several high draft picks and a lot of luck to become a title contender again.</p> A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</p> Maybe Memphis would listen to an RJ/Sean Williams offer for Gasol since they are the only players on the Nets with high stock right now. Who knows?</p> I doubt it matters because Rod Thorn has been a complete pussy and never made the moves that would have put the Nets over the top. It's probably too late now, but it's still worth one last REAL try.</p> </div></p> i dont understand you. One day, you want to keep the team intact, the next day you want to blow it up. taking lessons from Cpaw?</p> </div></p> ghoti: RJ/Sean for Gasol is horrrrrible. No way, jose.</p> Jizzy: I wouldn't expect you to call people out for flip-flopping</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Been saying it for a while, Rod Thorn is an overrated GM. Outside of the Kidd, Vinceand RJ trades, he hasnt done anything particualrly well. He overpaid a scrub in Collins to 6 mil a year!! Think about that, Collins for averaging less then a pt. a game and about two reb. a game is getting6 mil a YEAR! He also overpaid RJ by 30 mil. There goes the money saved on K-Mart. Then he doesnt trade Vince last year and basically bids against himself and overpays him. He should have lowballed him. Acutally, he should have traded him last year when he was an expiring contract. Dont even get started on his drafting. Krstic, marcus and Sean were good picks but as long as Granger is in the league, Wright will NEVER be the right pick. David Lee. Worst of all, free agent signings. Fuhget about it..</p> </div></p> He drafted the greatest player of all time.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Been saying it for a while, Rod Thorn is an overrated GM. Outside of the Kidd, Vinceand RJ trades, he hasnt done anything particualrly well. He overpaid a scrub in Collins to 6 mil a year!! Think about that, Collins for averaging less then a pt. a game and about two reb. a game is getting6 mil a YEAR! He also overpaid RJ by 30 mil. There goes the money saved on K-Mart. Then he doesnt trade Vince last year and basically bids against himself and overpays him. He should have lowballed him. Acutally, he should have traded him last year when he was an expiring contract. Dont even get started on his drafting. Krstic, marcus and Sean were good picks but as long as Granger is in the league, Wright will NEVER be the right pick. David Lee. Worst of all, free agent signings. Fuhget about it..</p> </div></p> He drafted the greatest player of all time.</p> </p> </div></p> lol, its well known he didnt really like MJ but took the chance once Bowie went.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rebuilding sucks.</p> The Celtics were trying to trade Paul Pierce but couldn't get anything back that they liked, so they reversed course and went for broke.</p> The truth is that the Nets don't have much to build around for the future, and if they trade Kidd they will need several high draft picks and a lot of luck to become a title contender again.</p> A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</p> Maybe Memphis would listen to an RJ/Sean Williams offer for Gasol since they are the only players on the Nets with high stock right now. Who knows?</p> I doubt it matters because Rod Thorn has been a complete pussy and never made the moves that would have put the Nets over the top. It's probably too late now, but it's still worth one last REAL try.</p> </div></p> i dont understand you. One day, you want to keep the team intact, the next day you want to blow it up. taking lessons from Cpaw?</p> </div></p> Find one post where I said I wanted to blow up the team.</p> I have been saying that Thorn is a wuss with no sense of urgency since before you were posting your daily "Good Night My Friends" threads.</p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Rebuilding sucks.</p> The Celtics were trying to trade Paul Pierce but couldn't get anything back that they liked, so they reversed course and went for broke.</p> The truth is that the Nets don't have much to build around for the future, and if they trade Kidd they will need several high draft picks and a lot of luck to become a title contender again.</p> A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</p> Maybe Memphis would listen to an RJ/Sean Williams offer for Gasol since they are the only players on the Nets with high stock right now. Who knows?</p> I doubt it matters because Rod Thorn has been a complete pussy and never made the moves that would have put the Nets over the top. It's probably too late now, but it's still worth one last REAL try.</p> </div></p> i dont understand you. One day, you want to keep the team intact, the next day you want to blow it up. taking lessons from Cpaw?</p> </div></p> ghoti: RJ/Sean for Gasol is horrrrrible. No way, jose.</p> </div></p> We can only pray Memphis is suckered like you are. But I doubt it.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> We can only pray Memphis is suckered like you are. But I doubt it.</p> </div></p> Our leading scorer and best post defender, both being the future of this team for Gasol?</p> If you thought our defense was bad now...</p> Plus I doubt Gasol makes up for it on the offensive end.</p> </p>
Gasol is quite the baby anyways. Wouldn't we have to find a way to bring in metrosexual Navarro as well?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> We can only pray Memphis is suckered like you are. But I doubt it.</p> </div></p> Our leading scorer and best post defender, both being the future of this team for Gasol?</p> If you thought our defense was bad now...</p> Plus I doubt Gasol makes up for it on the offensive end.</p> </p> </div></p> The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p> Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p> Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Gasol is quite the baby anyways. Wouldn't we have to find a way to bring in metrosexual Navarro as well?</p> </div></p> Good idea.</p> Add Marcus Williams and Navarro to that deal.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p> Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p> Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p> </div></p> It's a weird year when I can say that trading RJ for Gasol will lose us offense. I won't say that Sean is the key for us, but he is the biggest impact player on defense that we have. He just needs the time to work on his offensive spacing and fouling.</p> Any other year (assuming that Sean is not a rookie) I'd be tempted to go for it, but Boki and Gasol or RJ and Sean? We're worse defensively, offensively, and you want to talk about a mediocre future? You're trading away the best young talent on the team for...boki nachbar? That guy won't even get resigned at this pace.</p> Gasol's averaging 17/7. I'd rather give starter minutes to Sean. Based on how he's done so far, and given his first start of his career in Miami, he could look damn good at the end of the year.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p> Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p> Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p> </div></p> It's a weird year when I can say that trading RJ for Gasol will lose us offense. I won't say that Sean is the key for us, but he is the biggest impact player on defense that we have. He just needs the time to work on his offensive spacing and fouling.</p> Any other year (assuming that Sean is not a rookie) I'd be tempted to go for it, but Boki and Gasol or RJ and Sean? We're worse defensively, offensively, and you want to talk about a mediocre future? You're trading away the best young talent on the team for...boki nachbar? That guy won't even get resigned at this pace.</p> Gasol's averaging 17/7. I'd rather give starter minutes to Sean. Based on how he's done so far, and given his first start of his career in Miami, he could look damn good at the end of the year.</p> </p> </div></p> It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p> It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p> Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p> And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p> It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p> Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p> And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p> </div></p> By building around Kidd, I would presume you mean a fast-break game that starts off defensive stops?</p> And you wan't to get rid of RJ and Sean? Defensive players who run the break for Gasol?</p> Again I just don't see it. I'll concede that the years of rent-a-vets haven't been getting the job done, but we're talking about young talent at necessary positions that fit Kidd's game.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p> It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p> Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p> And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p> </div></p> By building around Kidd, I would presume you mean a fast-break game that starts off defensive stops?</p> And you wan't to get rid of RJ and Sean? Defensive players who run the break for Gasol?</p> Again I just don't see it. I'll concede that the years of rent-a-vets haven't been getting the job done, but we're talking about young talent at necessary positions that fit Kidd's game.</p> </div></p> Look, Vince Carter isn't getting traded. I know that. I'm being realistic here.</p> There is no way to transform the current team into what you describe. It just isn't possible. They just do not have the pieces to play that kind of defense.</p> I am of the belief that this is really the last year that Kidd can be considered a real championship level centerpiece. I'm not even sure he is one now, but I think it would be worth the risk to find out since the future is not so rosy one way or the other.</p> Looking at things from that view, the best way to approach things is to play decent defense - which the Nets can do - and get a real, legitimate low post scorer who can complement Carter and let Kidd run the show like he's done in international ball.</p> That means Kidd rarely (let's say almost never) shoots the ball.</p> I agree it's not the ideal plan, but it's urgent and desperate. IMO, that's what's needed right now. A hail mary. A half-court heave. A prayer.</p> That's the situation you put yourself in when you squander away years by hedging and being timid and hoping things will improve without really doing anything to improve things.</p> </p>
Well I'll certainly agree that its a hail-mary type of move, but I don't think its worth the risk of jeapordizing the future of this franchise, especially since they're players who can already contribute now.</p> I guess you think the team can instantly turn on the team defense they've been missing all season (and last), or that Frank will turn into a coach that can get this done. I'd like to think so, but I'm not that optimistic. I think thats why we need Sean; we need a single guy to have a significant impact because we can't count on the team to get the job done. I don't see Gasol as being this defensive beast that's going to fix rotation issues.</p> We'd also need him to come in and score +25 points a night, again I'm less than optimistic.</p> I'll give you this though: his midrange and rebounding ability would help us out a lot. Currently the two bigs who are supposed to be getting that done are getting daily DNP-CD. Plus we don't have to take up two positions to play Gasol.</p> But based on the cost/benefit analysis, it just isn't worth it. Not by a long shot. There are pieces here, we just need to get these guys playing in a way that is more cohesive (Frank rant).</p>
Ghoti, i normally agree with many points you bring out; however, I'm thinking about the team that will move into Brooklyn in three or four years. By that time, Kidd and Carter will most likely be past their respective primes. Also, i dont think tweaking this current team will do much. Talent is not the problem, it is consistency and lack of effort by some of the key guys.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Where's Sam Bowie?</p> </div></p> Didn't he die in the Alamo after inventing that knife?!?</p> </p>
RJ and Magloire for Pau and Stoudamire. do we have to give up Sean Williams? Throw them krstic instead.</p>
