Bulls trade: Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Thabo, 1st Round pick to Memphis Grizzlies trade: Pau Gasol, JC Navarro Bulls trade: Chris Duhon, Ben Wallace Cavs trade: Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall Bulls 1/2- Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, Navarro 3- Deng , Griffin, Khyrapa 4- Noah, Smith 5- Gasol, Gray
I like that more for the Cavs because they keep Marhsall, but then they don't quite get the PG they need in Duhon. Don't get me wrong, he's a good PG, but he's not the floor general that the Cavs need. They need someone who can run an offense, hit threes, but not demand the ball. I don't think Duhon satisfies all three.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Dec 28 2007, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like that more for the Cavs because they keep Marhsall, but then they don't quite get the PG they need in Duhon. Don't get me wrong, he's a good PG, but he's not the floor general that the Cavs need. They need someone who can run an offense, hit threes, but not demand the ball. I don't think Duhon satisfies all three.</div> You just named everything that Duhon DOES DO. Not to mention he can play with bruised ribs. He's so courageous.
Duhon can run an offense, is for his career 36% from 3 on over 3 attempts per game and averages 6 FGA's per 26 MPG over his career.
What I meant to add is that it really needs to be a veteran who can also aid the evolution of Daniel Gibsons game for 2-3 years before retiring. If the Cavs were to acquire Duhon, they might as well get rid of Gibson, such is the hype surrounding him in Cleveland. This hype would mean that they would need to overpay for him, but if he only plays backup it is a lot harder to justify. Therefore, if we acquire Duhon (which I'm not against in theory, I just like Gibson), then we would also need to get rid of Gibson.
No one says you would have to keep Duhon longer than 3 years. You don't play for a team for life until you retire anymore, free agency happens. Thanks!
Personally I tend to see young players as long-term acquisitions - call me old-fashioned if you want. It makes sense to keep a young player as long as possibly right into their prime. And it seems stupid to let them go in free agency, where you get nothing for them.
Duhon would rock as the Cavs' PG. He is by far the best PG on the Bulls at running the offense. He doesn't dominate the ball, which would fit in well with a teammate like LeBron. He's capable of hitting the 3 enough that you have to guard him. He plays solid defense and can guard guys bigger than he is. With Hughes gone, I don't see who else would be playing guard at the other spot than Gibson for much of the time. There's no reason they can't share PG/ballhandling duties while they're both on the court - works for the Bulls just fine when he's out there with Hinrich. For the past few years, a few of us Bulls posters have pondered trades of Duhon to the Cavs, but the consensus has been that it'd be really doing the Cavs a favor and helping them compete against us in the EC for years to come.
It would help the Cavs, but I'm just saying that a vet's influence is needed more. I think that Pavlovic would start at the 2 if Duhon was acquired to play the point. I, personally, think Gibson would probably be better suited to coming off the bench, which Mike Brown might finally have twigged upon. However, the hype surrounding him in Cleveland could cause him to try to start him whenever possible, which might not be the best option for the Cavs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Dec 28 2007, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It would help the Cavs, but I'm just saying that a vet's influence is needed more. I think that Pavlovic would start at the 2 if Duhon was acquired to play the point. I, personally, think Gibson would probably be better suited to coming off the bench, which Mike Brown might finally have twigged upon. However, the hype surrounding him in Cleveland could cause him to try to start him whenever possible, which might not be the best option for the Cavs.</div> A couple points: 1st, it's better to deal with out of control hype sooner rather than later. If you put him on the bench now, maybe it gets under control. No reason to let the guy play to satisfy people at the expense of losing, and then overpay him to boot. To everyone that matters, the proof will be in the pudding. If they win, nobody will much complain. 2nd, Duhon is one of the few Bulls that's consistently shown some stones and displayed some leadership (both on and off the court) over his tenure here. I won't be all that happy to see him leave, but despite the fact he's our best PG, he's our 3rd best guard and I don't think Gordon or Hinrich are worth giving up just to be rid of Wallace.
Chingy: The more I hear you talk about the needs of the Cavs, I have to agree with everyone else here that Duhon would be perfect. He's on the younger side, but you have to characterize him as a young vet. Duhon has played point guard (real point guard) at the upper echilon of team ball his entire career: McDonalds All-American, Duke for four years. He looked like a vet as a rookie, and he has continued to add to his game since. As proven by the move tonight, he also always finds a way into our starting lineup at least for one extended stretch each year. I've always liked the way he plays, and this is his best season. . . the type of player that it might be in the best interests of the Cavs to overpay for. Mike: The reason your lineup looks so good, is that the Bulls are robbing the Griz. Christmas was last week. Didn't Memphis turn down a package that was much more generous just six months ago?
Why would the Grizzlies do the deal? Gasol's having a horrible season, but that's the result of Marc Iavaroni's system, not a decline in his abilities. He's still the same triple threat seven-foot All-Star he was last season. Nocioni would be burried behind Gay and Miller, and Thomas would be horrible for the Grizzlies' current system. Besides, the Grizzlies already have Stromile Swift on the squad. Having both him and Thomas would just be redundant. It's essentially a player who'll be coming off the bench, a player who is a decent prospect but doesn't fit in the system, a throw-in, and a draft pick for the most talented player on their team, plus their fourth leading scorer.
I suppose I am being critical, but it is my opinion as a Cavs fan. The problem is thhat if we acquire Duhon, we will overpay for him because Ferry is the GM. We will also overpay for Gibson because Ferry is the GM. This means that we'll probably be paying around $16 million per year in a few years time, just for the PG position. I am not against acquiring Duhon, just against it if we keep Gibson and/or Ferry.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Trade Machine")</div><div class='quotemain'><span style="color:#2e8b57">This Trade Succeeded! </span> <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Chicago Bulls </span> Incoming Players Shawn Marion Salary: $16,440,000 Years Remaining: 2 PTS: 16.0 REB: 10.3 AST: 1.9 PER: 19.96 Boris Diaw Salary: $9,000,000 Years Remaining: 4 PTS: 7.0 REB: 4.1 AST: 3.3 PER: 9.72 Salary: $427,163 Years Remaining: 2 PTS: 2.0 REB: 0.7 AST: 0.5 PER: 3.03 Outgoing Players: Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Phoenix Suns</span> Incoming Players Kirk Hinrich Salary: $11,250,000 Years Remaining: 5 PTS: 11.0 REB: 3.5 AST: 5.7 PER: 10.75 Ben Wallace Salary: $15,500,000 Years Remaining: 3 PTS: 4.3 REB: 8.4 AST: 1.9 PER: 11.77 Outgoing Players: Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, D.J. Strawberry</div> Phoenix gains the backup PG and heir apparent to Nash, plus the big bodied rebounder/defender to pair with Amare. Bulls gain a tall guy who can play all 5 positions (Diaw) most likely SG and C, and a power forward that is a great complement to Deng. Marion would also be the go-to guy the Bulls have needed all along. This deal would leave Phoenix really thin at the F positions. This is the only drawback to this deal I can see. They're already thin at the F positions tho. An alteration to the deal would be to sub Banks for Strawberry and add Tyrus Thomas on the Bulls' side.
Shawn Marion as a go-to guy? I don't know about that. I'm not sure he'd be able to do that. Any Suns fans wanna give their input on that? Also, isn't Ben Gordon the go-to guy?
The Suns would benefit from that deal now and in the future. All indications are Marion is opting out this summer and Diaw can't seem to co-exist with Amare. The Bulls would clear a lot of money up and have to make a decision on what to do with Deng, Marion, and Thomas on the roster. Diaw will be a solid role player and should pair well with Gordon. Those two can run the pick and roll all game long with a lot of effectiveness.
Thomas isn't going to play much for the Bulls. I think the 2nd variation of the deal would be the ideal. Phoenix gets some help at the backup F position, and the Bulls get back a guy who'd play a lot of minutes in the backcourt (Banks). Post deal, Phoenix: G: Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Hinrich C: Wallace, Skinner F: Amare, Hill, Thomas With the G depth, and knowing D'Antoni, they would play a lot of 3 guard sets with Wallace and Amare. Post deal, Bulls: G: Gordon, Duhon, Banks, Diaw, Thabo C: Diaw, Noah, Gray F: Marion, Deng, Nocioni, Diaw Skiles like to run 3 guards, too, and Diaw could guard any of the 5 positions on D and play one of the guard positions on O.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 28 2007, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shawn Marion as a go-to guy? I don't know about that. I'm not sure he'd be able to do that. Any Suns fans wanna give their input on that? Also, isn't Ben Gordon the go-to guy?</div> Gordon is a microwave. He heats up fast and can score in bunches. Go-to guy? The closest thing the Bulls have had since Jalen Rose. However, he's hardly been consistent: when he's on, he's really on, when he's not on, he's not much help. Marion is a career 18.5/10 guy who shoots 52% the past three seasons. If Marion isn't the go-to guy, he's certainly going to keep teams from double teaming Gordon all the time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ Dec 28 2007, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why would the Grizzlies do the deal? Gasol's having a horrible season, but that's the result of Marc Iavaroni's system, not a decline in his abilities. He's still the same triple threat seven-foot All-Star he was last season. Nocioni would be burried behind Gay and Miller, and Thomas would be horrible for the Grizzlies' current system. Besides, the Grizzlies already have Stromile Swift on the squad. Having both him and Thomas would just be redundant. It's essentially a player who'll be coming off the bench, a player who is a decent prospect but doesn't fit in the system, a throw-in, and a draft pick for the most talented player on their team, plus their fourth leading scorer.</div> I agree, but there are some indications for the other way too: * Marc Iavoroni doesn't appear to be going anywhere. So you can say the system doesn't fit Gasol, but the system does fit everyone else, and everyone else is fairly inexpensive. So if what the Griz are trying to do is be exciting and cheap, they move Gasol and stay with the run and shoot style. * The Grizz were seriously interested in Nocioni this summer. He plays a fair amount of 4, so let's hope they watched him earlier in the season instead of the last few games. In a run and gun approach, he'd probably start at the 4 with Darko and Swift at the 5. I guess. I don't claim to know why they like him, I'm just saying they seem to like him. * Thomas depends on whether you like him or not. If you don't like him then yeah, he's Stromile Swift. If you do like him, he's the next, um... I dunno... Chris Wilcox? So yeah, I've soured on him quite a bit, but rumor had it Memphis likes him.
