Randy Moss's numbers this year: 98 catches, 1493 yards, 23 tds Moss's average season as a Raider: 51 catches, 754 yds, 6 tds It was easy to dismiss Moss in Oakland and think he had lost a step because his production was so poor, but now we see the truth is that he just didn't feel like performing in Oakland so he didn't....for this reason, he is not a Hall of Fame player in my opinion....he only plays when hes motivated by personal gain, never for anyone else....If I was an Oakland Raiders season ticket holder, i'd be contacting a lawyer today to arrange a class action suit against Randy Moss for fraud, because he sure as hell said he wanted to go to Oakland, they sure as hell gave up a lot to get him, and he sure as hell collected his paycheck while he was there....
this season further proves that the only person who can stop Randy is Randy. When he wants to play and tries he plays like one of the greats.
I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player. Moss had hamstring problems in Oakland, he's healthy now, that's also a big difference. He was having a career year his first year at Oakland until he got injured in Week 5 against the Chargers. During his second year the Raiders averaged 10.5 points a game. You have to remember, Moss was still under contract and wanted to get out of there. He made the right decision, the Raiders still suck and Randy wants to win a Championship (not that I am rooting for the Pats, but you get the point). Moss is supposed to sacrifice his 23 TD season to stay with Jemarcus Russell and the 4-12 Raiders? Yeah right man.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jan 20 2008, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player. Moss had hamstring problems in Oakland, he's healthy now, that's also a big difference. He was having a career year his first year at Oakland until he got injured in Week 5 against the Chargers. During his second year the Raiders averaged 10.5 points a game. You have to remember, Moss was still under contract and wanted to get out of there. He made the right decision, the Raiders still suck and Randy wants to win a Championship (not that I am rooting for the Pats, but you get the point). Moss is supposed to sacrifice his 23 TD season to stay with Jemarcus Russell and the 4-12 Raiders? Yeah right man.</div> You are coming from the perspective of "how can _I_ be more entertained by Randy Moss?" and sympathizing with him based on that. Your perspective is that Randy should be on a different team, because I only care about Randy's success, not the success of the Raiders. Yes, his first season he had a small injury, nothing more. The next season, he was healthy, came to practice, went through all the drills. When it was Sunday, he passive-aggressively allowed accurate passes to simply bounce off his chest. While he pretended to be a team member, he took in a huge salary. The Raiders paid him a lot to perform, and he chose to behave like a child with no social skills. He proved that he is not a leader, and cannot be trusted when the going gets tough. We know he wanted out of Oakland. He could have handled this completely differently, and saved face public scrutiny (Being a man, and earning his paycheck). There are different forms of abuse, one of them is called "abuse by neglect". What he did, in effect, helped to sabotage offensive production that year. Sure, the playcalling tended to not be very good, but when your number is called, you need to perform, regardless of who is throwing the ball to you. When people vote on Hall of Famers, character issues sometimes sway the opinions of the HOF voters, and should in this case as well. There were many HOF players who were on teams that had bad seasons. None of them "purposely gave up on the field" as Moss did. Maturity level - Very low. Sportsmanship - none. Hall of Fame consideration - hell no.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jan 20 2008, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jan 20 2008, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player. Moss had hamstring problems in Oakland, he's healthy now, that's also a big difference. He was having a career year his first year at Oakland until he got injured in Week 5 against the Chargers. During his second year the Raiders averaged 10.5 points a game. You have to remember, Moss was still under contract and wanted to get out of there. He made the right decision, the Raiders still suck and Randy wants to win a Championship (not that I am rooting for the Pats, but you get the point). Moss is supposed to sacrifice his 23 TD season to stay with Jemarcus Russell and the 4-12 Raiders? Yeah right man.</div> You are coming from the perspective of "how can _I_ be more entertained by Randy Moss?" and sympathizing with him based on that. Your perspective is that Randy should be on a different team, because I only care about Randy's success, not the success of the Raiders. Yes, his first season he had a small injury, nothing more. The next season, he was healthy, came to practice, went through all the drills. When it was Sunday, he passive-aggressively allowed accurate passes to simply bounce off his chest. While he pretended to be a team member, he took in a huge salary. The Raiders paid him a lot to perform, and he chose to behave like a child with no social skills. He proved that he is not a leader, and cannot be trusted when the going gets tough. We know he wanted out of Oakland. He could have handled this completely differently, and saved face public scrutiny (Being a man, and earning his paycheck). There are different forms of abuse, one of them is called "abuse by neglect". What he did, in effect, helped to sabotage offensive production that year. Sure, the playcalling tended to not be very good, but when your number is called, you need to perform, regardless of who is throwing the ball to you. When people vote on Hall of Famers, character issues sometimes sway the opinions of the HOF voters, and should in this case as well. There were many HOF players who were on teams that had bad seasons. None of them "purposely gave up on the field" as Moss did. Maturity level - Very low. Sportsmanship - none. Hall of Fame consideration - hell no. </div> First, let me say that I have nothing against the Raider organization, but I dislike the amateur coaches they had in 2006. That was a completely dreadful situation, and anyone watching the Raiders knows how offensively anemic a team must be to have a Pocket Passer (who doesn't run into sacks) get sacked 46 times in 276 attempts. If not that, then Aaron Brooks was fumbling the ball, throwing picks or getting sacked as much as Andrew Walter. I am not sure Moss just stopped playing, he had a 129 yard game in the middle of the season. The Oakland Qbs were sacked 72 times with a QB rating of 56.2. Art Shell was also the coach and I recall that their offensive Coordinator was running a bed and breakfast the year before (and Shell was cool with this). I think Moss was more then qualified to want out. It's almost a miracle Moss was able to have any good games with an offense that averaged 8.444 points per game the last half of the season. He gave up on the season somewhat, but that is because he cares about winning. The Oakland situation in 06 was very unique in a pejorative sense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player.</div> I believe that R Moss is one of your favorite players. I do not believe the extent to which you viewed Oakland Raider games in 2006. You are using statistics to explain that Moss did not stop playing in 2006, citing one game where he had 129 yards receiving. That's great, but "dropped passes" is not a recorded statistic. You would have had to have watched the games from beginning to end, in order to have the opinion that Moss stopped playing in 2006, because he chose to not catch passes that bounced off his chest. For you, it merely appears as incomplete pass when looking back on the game statistics. This is why I do not believe you when you said that you watched the games. Anyone who has watched his games last season (and who besides Chip, Bob, and myself will admit to having watch the Raiders in 2006?) knows what Moss did (and more importantly, did not do) in those games. All those stats that you brought up look legitimate, but many of the quarterback incompletions were dropped, catchable balls by Moss. Moss was a team captain in 2006. If he cared so much about winning, then he would have taken each game a bit more seriously - at a minimum.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jan 21 2008, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player.</div> I believe that R Moss is one of your favorite players. I do not believe the extent to which you viewed Oakland Raider games in 2006. You are using statistics to explain that Moss did not stop playing in 2006, citing one game where he had 129 yards receiving. That's great, but "dropped passes" is not a recorded statistic. You would have had to have watched the games from beginning to end, in order to have the opinion that Moss stopped playing in 2006, because he chose to not catch passes that bounced off his chest. For you, it merely appears as incomplete pass when looking back on the game statistics. This is why I do not believe you when you said that you watched the games. Anyone who has watched his games last season (and who besides Chip, Bob, and myself will admit to having watch the Raiders in 2006?) knows what Moss did (and more importantly, did not do) in those games. All those stats that you brought up look legitimate, but many of the quarterback incompletions were dropped, catchable balls by Moss. Moss was a team captain in 2006. If he cared so much about winning, then he would have taken each game a bit more seriously - at a minimum. </div> First, BlackMamba/Chutney (and some other members) has known me for a good amount of time and knows I have followed Moss' career. I have argued about Moss before with this ex-JBB member "I-Miss-MJ" in 2006/2007, and I explained to him in extreme detail Moss' situation in Minny and Oakland. I have watched many Raider games, so please do not question me like that. In addition, even the worst ball dropper in the league only loses 15 balls at worst the entire season. At an average of 15 yards a catch, that comes out to 225 yards, or 300 if we're being generous. I doubt Moss had that many drops that year anyway. Moss gave up somewhat, but the extent to which you describe is overzealous. The QB stats speak for themselves, I gave an intelligent analysis.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller)</div><div class='quotemain'>He gave up on the season somewhat, but that is because he cares about winning.</div> I respect your opinion dude, but I don't really agree with this. Those two statements really don't make sense put together, unless Moss was delusional or ignorant. The other, more logical, explanation is that he gave up on the season somewhat because he lacked commitment/determination. I think the situation is really comparable with Plaxico Burress' last two seasons with the Giants. The Giants stalled midway through last season when they went through a rash of injuries and, like Moss, this was about the time where Plax just gave up. He ran undisciplined routes, he dropped balls that he had the talent to catch, he ran half-heartedly, and he gave up on plays if he wasn't involved in them. But, like Randy, he's come on strong this season with renewed energy and has had a career season. He's addressed all of those criticisms I had about his game last season and has earned my respect. I don't think either player didn't care about winning. They clearly do right now. But, I think that during those difficult seasons, they showed a lack of commitment to turning around a tough situation. They wanted to win easy, if you will, and considering the responsibility both players had those years (team captains, respected veterans, etc.), I think their actions are unjustifiable. However, then there's the separate issue of Moss' Hall of Fame candidacy. I agree that character issues must factor in at some point, but I think they play in when it comes to tough decisions. Simply put, Moss' numbers are head-and-shoulders above any other players he'll be matched up with that year and it'd be impossible to shut him out of the Hall.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jan 21 2008, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I watched a bunch of Raider games because Moss is my second favorite football player. First, BlackMamba/Chutney (and some other members) has known me for a good amount of time and knows I have followed Moss' career. I have argued about Moss before with this ex-JBB member "I-Miss-MJ" in 2006/2007, and I explained to him in extreme detail Moss' situation in Minny and Oakland. I have watched many Raider games, so please do not question me like that. In addition, even the worst ball dropper in the league only loses 15 balls at worst the entire season. At an average of 15 yards a catch, that comes out to 225 yards, or 300 if we're being generous. I doubt Moss had that many drops that year anyway. Moss gave up somewhat, but the extent to which you describe is overzealous. The QB stats speak for themselves, I gave an intelligent analysis.</div> The only thing that you have convinced me of is that you will blindly give Randy Moss the benefit of any doubt because he is your 2nd favorite player. I still don't believe that you watched any Raiders games other than some possible highlights (or lowlights). If you had watched the games, then you would have seen with your own two eyes that Randy purposely dropped catchable passes the whole season The QB stats have nothing to do with Moss dropping catchable balls other than it shows up as one of the incomplete passes. There is nothing overzealous about describing Moss as a quitter. He has proven that in Minnesota as well as Oakland. If NE suddenly goes south quickly, their is no reason for anyone to expect different from him.
He didn't perform in Oakland because he didnt give a fuck....he wasn't interested most of the time....hes a baby and loser....hes been blessed with so much and should ashamed of what he did in Oakland
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jan 21 2008, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect your opinion dude,</div> Same here, I also think that if I clarify what I mean, you will agree with me more. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>but I don't really agree with this. Those two statements really don't make sense put together, unless Moss was delusional or ignorant. The other, more logical, explanation is that he gave up on the season somewhat because he lacked commitment/determination. I think the situation is really comparable with Plaxico Burress' last two seasons with the Giants. The Giants stalled midway through last season when they went through a rash of injuries and, like Moss, this was about the time where Plax just gave up. He ran undisciplined routes, he dropped balls that he had the talent to catch, he ran half-heartedly, and he gave up on plays if he wasn't involved in them. But, like Randy, he's come on strong this season with renewed energy and has had a career season. He's addressed all of those criticisms I had about his game last season and has earned my respect. I don't think either player didn't care about winning. They clearly do right now. But, I think that during those difficult seasons, they showed a lack of commitment to turning around a tough situation. They wanted to win easy, if you will, and considering the responsibility both players had those years (team captains, respected veterans, etc.), I think their actions are unjustifiable. However, then there's the separate issue of Moss' Hall of Fame candidacy. I agree that character issues must factor in at some point, but I think they play in when it comes to tough decisions. Simply put, Moss' numbers are head-and-shoulders above any other players he'll be matched up with that year and it'd be impossible to shut him out of the Hall.</div> Plax was still in a better situation though. Eli gets sacked 25-28 times a year, 76 is on a different level, and he has Walter/Brooks beat by 15-25 QB rating points. Of course Randy gave up on the season. Instead of having 550+ yards and three TDs, he should have had close to a thousand and more TDs (though he missed 3 games I believe, so that should be closer to 850-900 yards). But the Oakland offense was still extremely pathetic, I do not understand what kind of numbers some of you Raider fans expected. Randy's stats were going to suffer in that horrific team. Doesn't Tom Brady have pathetic passing seasons under his legacy? People also ignore the inept coaches on that staff and Moss' injury problems with his hamstring. Walter and Brooks were a downgrade from Kerry Collins and Robert Gallery was a bust. Frankly, I believe it is intelligent to want to get traded from a team that is rebuilding. If I'm not mistaken, Moss had three years left on his contract, why would he want to stay in Oakland in his prime? Asking for Trades, complaining about teams is something I advocate in dire situations. This wasn't just some 6-10 team, this is a team with a new QB who could easily be a bust or take a while to develop, and new coaches. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jan 21 2008, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only thing that you have convinced me of is that you will blindly give Randy Moss the benefit of any doubt because he is your 2nd favorite player. I still don't believe that you watched any Raiders games other than some possible highlights (or lowlights). If you had watched the games, then you would have seen with your own two eyes that Randy purposely dropped catchable passes the whole season The QB stats have nothing to do with Moss dropping catchable balls other than it shows up as one of the incomplete passes. There is nothing overzealous about describing Moss as a quitter. He has proven that in Minnesota as well as Oakland. If NE suddenly goes south quickly, their is no reason for anyone to expect different from him.</div> No one said he didn't give up on the season, I just don't think that's all to the story in Oakland. I don't really care how much you think I watched the Raiders anyway, so whatever. How many times did Randy drop the ball? You seem to imply it was 30-50 times, clarify yourself and your claims. And how did he quit on Minny? I remember Jaws on ESPN make up a time Moss didn't "run hard", and people bashed him this year. Personally I have felt people always make up stuff about how he's not running routes and such, it's silly. I've only seen some of that stuff happen in Oakland, but that doesn't matter much on a team like that. To reiterate again, he also had hamstring problems in Oakland, and even before the season started in New England.
