What do you think? I think it's Chris Paul. (Don't kill me Nets fans). I'll construct a better argument tomorrow morning
Nash or Kidd were my first thoughts, just because they've been the top two for the past few years...but Paul has to be in the argument too. He's doing some pretty ridiculous things down there... 21.9 PPG (top 20), 10.2 APG (3rd), 3.8 RPG, 2.91 SPG (1st)...and leading his team the 6th best winning percentage in the league. Nash's scoring is down a little from last season (still shooting over 50%..and still more PPG then his first MVP season), but his assists are up (higher then in both of his MVP seasons). The Suns are leading their division again, and one of the top teams in the league again. Kidd's team has been the least successful of the three, but with that being said...11.6 PPG, 10.7 APG, 8.7 RPG, 1.7 SPG and 10 triple doubles so far this season. I'd say those have to be the top three (really going out on a limb, I know). I have to think a bit more about what order I'd put them in.
I think J-Kidd's rebounding numbers have gone up because K-Mart is the only big guy on the Nets who averaged a decent number of boards since Kidd has been in Jersey. I don't think he averages seven or eight on every team in the NBA. Anyways, some day we might be talking about Chris Paul and Deron Williams like we do now about Kidd and Steve Nash.
Paul Deron Williams Chauncy Kidd gets a triple-double: 10/10/10 on 30% FG. Paul gets a triple-double 40/10/20. Chauncy nails a clutch shot to win the game. How often do you hear that about Nash or Kidd? That's the little bit of extra something that puts them in the top 3, IMO. Calderon deserves mention. He's been incredible this season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Jan 10 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think J-Kidd's rebounding numbers have gone up because K-Mart is the only big guy on the Nets who averaged a decent number of boards since Kidd has been in Jersey. I don't think he averages seven or eight on every team in the NBA. Anyways, some day we might be talking about Chris Paul and Deron Williams like we do now about Kidd and Steve Nash.</div> Well, over the last 10 games, Josh Boone is averaging 8.7 rpg, which is a .8 difference from Martin's highest RPG in Jersey (9.5). And Sean Williams is averaging 6.4 rpg. Meanwhile, Kidd's averaging 8.9 over the last 10 games. And Boone is averaging 5.6 for the season, while Sean is averaging 5.3 rpg. So there's bigs pulling down a decent number of boards, yet Kidd still pulls down a high number of rebounds.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jan 10 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd gets a triple-double: 10/10/10 on 30% FG. Paul gets a triple-double 40/10/20.</div> Paul has 3 career triple doubles. Kidd has 97. Paul has 0 triple doubles this year. Kidd has 10. Kidd's averages in his career in games in which he records a TD are 17.6 ppg/11.4 rpg/12.2 apg . . . certainly not 10/10/10. I don't understand how this whole idea of Kidd only getting 10/10/10 and just barely getting his TD's came about. The fact that he gets so many TD's actually hurts him in this area I guess, because most of the time, he doesn't put up ridiculous numbers, so people get the perception he barely gets them. But there have been PLENTY of times that's gone above and beyond 10/10/10: just this year he has had games of 16/14/10, 11/19/10, 12/15/12, 12/11/13, 15/11/12, 13/11/12. That's 6 of his 10 triple double games so far this season. The others are: 13/10/13, 11/10/11, 11/10/12, 10/13/14. I could go back to the last few years, but this debate is only about this year. Anywho, having said all that, I do think that Paul is the best PG in the league right now.
I think the art of the triple double is underrated by the fact that the average NBA fan's perception of players is driven by ppg. Sadly, if Kidd were averaging 20 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, I think he'd get more respect than he gets with 12 ppg, 9 rpg, and 11 apg. In perspective though, he averages more rebounds than both Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol, while averaging more assists than Chris Paul and Deron Williams. His statistics are nuts, and they don't even scratch on what made Kidd the star he is today, like his defense, his leadership, his court vision, etc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ Jan 10 2008, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the art of the triple double is underrated by the fact that the average NBA fan's perception of players is skewed by ppg. Sadly, if Kidd were averaging 20 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, I think he'd get more respect than he gets with 12 ppg, 9 rpg, and 11 apg. In perspective though, he averages more rebounds than both Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol, while averaging more assists than Chris Paul and Deron Williams. His statistics are nuts, and they don't even scratch on what made Kidd the star he is today, like his defense, his leadership, his court vision, etc.</div> if he had 12ppg shooting 50% he'd get the respect, buts he doing it shooting a low percentage. Im sure that comes into play when people see the stats
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jan 10 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Paul Deron Williams Chauncy Kidd gets a triple-double: 10/10/10 on 30% FG. Paul gets a triple-double 40/10/20. Chauncy nails a clutch shot to win the game. How often do you hear that about Nash or Kidd? That's the little bit of extra something that puts them in the top 3, IMO. Calderon deserves mention. He's been incredible this season.</div> I have no problem with Paul and Deron being up there but Billups is not a top pg in the league. Look at the summer games and how out of place he was with those guys. Every time he checked in the pace just went to hell. This here is not me defending Kidd, I don't even like Kidd that much anymore but Billups plays in a system where he looks VERY good. Kidd should be playing the fastbreak but can't because the Nets don't' have the pieces.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BasX @ Jan 10 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ Jan 10 2008, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the art of the triple double is underrated by the fact that the average NBA fan's perception of players is skewed by ppg. Sadly, if Kidd were averaging 20 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, I think he'd get more respect than he gets with 12 ppg, 9 rpg, and 11 apg. In perspective though, he averages more rebounds than both Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol, while averaging more assists than Chris Paul and Deron Williams. His statistics are nuts, and they don't even scratch on what made Kidd the star he is today, like his defense, his leadership, his court vision, etc.</div> if he had 12ppg shooting 50% he'd get the respect, buts he doing it shooting a low percentage. Im sure that comes into play when people see the stats </div> No guard is going to shoot 50% unless most of their shots come in the paint like Tony Parker. Almost half of Kidd's attempts are from long range, hence why his three point shooting average is only 4% lower than his overall FG%. He's not a great shooter, but neither is he an overshooting hack or a complete bricklayer.
I still think Jason Kidd is the best point guard in the NBA. Steve Nash is a great player, but he has never been a level above Jason Kidd, to me. The main reason is defense, which is half the battle. Kidd has not only been a good defensive player, but an elite one throughout most of his career. Nash still cannot defend a chair. For the poster above trying to make the argument that Kidd doesn't make his teammates better... that is a joke. An absolute joke. Before this season started, I'd have ranked them in this order: Kidd, Nash, Chauncey/Paul, Deron/Baron. At this point, I'm going: 1. Jason Kidd 2. Chris Paul 3. Steve Nash 4. Chauncey Billups 5. Deron Williams/Baron Davis (that's neck-and-neck, to me)
Guards shooting 50% Deron Williams Jose Calderon Mike Miller John Salmons Steve Nash Jason Kapono Anthony Carter Brent Barry CJ Miles Tony Parker You make a good point but a lot of times the ball can come to the PG near the end of a shot clock and hitting that shot at the back end off a 24 second clock can be huge for a team. Then again Kidd's never had a true shot, a 40% lifetime shooter. Granted he does not get enough respect for his rebounding ability. The true thing is he has the 3rd most triple doubles in NBA history, those stats should/will speaks for themselves.
It's between Kidd and Nash for me. They are both great passers and playmakers, but they bring different things to the table. Kidd is an excellent defender and a great rebounder for his size, but he lacks the pure shooting and scoring ability that Nash posseses.
Jason Kidd has been playing at a top level from day 1. A lot of you talk about his low FG%. Do you even consider factors on why he shoots at a low percentage? Do you guys even know what it takes to fill up the stat sheets the way he does? He runs the offense, defends (unlike most of the players that are mentioned), gets the rebound and runs the floor. Kidd's attempts mostly comes off broken plays. Nash, Paul and Davis on the other hand looks for their own shots. Kidd has proven in the past that he can score if he wanted to. Kidd is a future hall of famer and is already mentioned as one of the greats alongside Robertson, Magic and Stockton. Just because Paul or Nash scores more than Kidd doesn't make them any better. Say what you want about his off-court mishaps, but on the basketball floor, Jason Kidd is a class act.
I would take Parker over everyone listed. Nash/Kidd are fine, but I know Parker will show up Game 7 of the NBA finals...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ed the Decider @ Jan 11 2008, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would take Parker over everyone listed. Nash/Kidd are fine, but I know Parker will show up Game 7 of the NBA finals...</div> because Tim Duncan carried him there.
