I think this debate is going on in unproductive terms. I think, but can't prove: * "Heavy" minutes aren't necessary. These guys do need game experience, but for every game they probably spend twice as much time in practice. That's where the majority of NBA players learn and grow (if a practice is useful). * "Steady" minutes are necessary. I think what'd help, more than playing these guys a ton, is playing them a little bit, but steady. I think to do that, however, someone else needs to be moved out of the frontcourt. Wallace, Smith and Nocioni eat up too many minutes to play three young guys steadily. At the moment, I'd use Gray situationally and still get a *consistent* 12-20 minutes for Thomas and Noah. Finding the right lineups is tough because neither of those guys is a good fit next to Wallace. * From what I've seen, we'll have a hell of a time making the playoffs with our young big guys playing huge minutes, or if someone gets hurt. Still, I think Pax will go all out for the playoffs. I don't think he wants to go to the Chairman at the end of the year with that to show. And I don't suspect the Chairman wants to miss out on those revenues. * As far as how it'd be viewed, I won't view sneaking into the playoffs, especially on the backs of the rapidly aging bigs we've got, as a very productive season. I mean, Skiles was fired to get this season back on track and implicity the idea was that the problem was largely him and not the players. Well, if the goal is just getting into the playoffs, expectations have fallen a lot with or without Skiles. * I hope the Bulls are looking hard at moving Nocioni and especially Wallace. I'd be trying to find a future pick for Duhon while I'm at it. In the case of Wallace, I expect him to fall apart playing the minutes he's playing. If he's not being showcased, I'm not gonna be happy.
Thomas and Noah played a lot of minutes together against the Knicks. From what I've seen: The light bulb hasn't gone off over Thomas' head yet. Noah's got energy but is terribly inconsistent. He'll get 3 posterizing dunks one game and in the same minutes be invisible the next. The two combined for 2-11 shooting and 11 boards against the Knicks. I don't think the rebounding made up for the lack of scoring from two front court positions simultaneously. Gray is clearly a find in the 2nd round, but looks incredibly awkward and slow out there that his numbers are surprising. 82games.com shows both our offense and defense are worse when he's out there I don't get the reasoning behind replacing Wallace (who's still a decent player) and Nocioni (one of our only 4 offensive threats) with two guys who are less capable.
The reality is we need AD or PJ Brown types ..and take the growing pains of TT, Joakim and Gray Right now we can't win and are a marginal 1st round team and the TT and Joakim will regress Look at how well TT did last year when he played with PJ , how well Eddy Curry did when he paired off with AD The question is ..who are these guys that pair well with TT and Joakim ? I would dare say we already have the right guy to pair with Joakim in Joe Smith , and where , we gain size and length in the starting line up Joe Smith gives us the scoring , heady vet with a cool head to play through with Joakim Noah Does Nick Collison give us a good pairing with Tyrus Thomas ? Collison has the bulk to rebound and score in the post , can run the pick and roll very well, understands team defense concepts, can contribute to "win now" and is the steady cool head that suits a developer like Thomas. So Ben Wallace to the Lakers who make a serious run with Bynum Wallace Odom Bryant Fisher Kwame Brown , Chris Mihm and Chris Duhon to Seattle ( all expiring contracts on the assumption that Chris Mihm opts out of his $2.5M option in Seattle next season ) Nick Collison and Earl Watson to Chicago We essentially cleanse Wallace's contract with Collison and Watson ( Watson expires the same time as Wallace on our books ) whereas Collison is on the books longer for one further season past Wallace's expiry at a cost of $6.75M , plus , the idea being is that Collison is a better fit than Wallace for Thomas , and , Watson gives us everything that Duhon gives us at no extra cost ( therefore we don't have to re- up the cost of Duhon ) Noah Smith Deng Hinrich Watson 6th : Gordon <u>bench</u> Collison Thomas Nocioni Sefolosha Gray Nichols Griffin Curry Seattle does this deal and goes from $54M in committed salary for 10 players and extensions due for Swift and West plus another likely high lottery pick By doing this deal they they take their payroll down to $42M for 10 players before they consider extensions for Swift and West as well as take into account their draft pick . By moving Collison and Watson they free up more minutes for Swift and West - the combined cost of which may be $10M + their draft pick of say $3M - which takes them up to a payroll of around $53M - $54M next season instead of say $65M - and flirting with the Luxury Tax The season after in 2009 they would have approx $35M in payroll locked down for Durant, Green, Swift, Ridnour ,West, Wilkins, Sene , and their 2008 and 2009 1st round picks - 9 players for $35M and approximately $15M in cap space in 2009 that they wouldn't have had if they had of kept Collison and Watson For Seattle its a money making exercise when Collison and Watson aren't going to help this team for where it is in its life cycle For the Lakers its a championship run with another guy that has championship experience and former multiple DPOY ..so its another investment in greasing Kobe For the Bulls its win now and win later ( in that Collison is a better and more productive role player for us now who can contribute and help whilst at the same time allowing for the development of Noah and Thomas ) it saves us some money some in not having to replace the cost of Duhon - and where long term we are not really on the hook in terms of the structure of salary planning etc
You didn't mention why neither Joe Smith nor Ben Wallace don't pair well with Thomas. You talk about needing an AD or PJ kind of big man, but we have the two (Smith, Wallace). When AD was here, we didn't have Wallace. The only thing Wallace doesn't do that AD did was hit the 15 foot jumper on the pick and pop. At all the other things, I think he's better, no? Smith does have the skills to hit that jumper and the guy can board.
Smith and Wallace are both better than those guys but poorer fits. Smith's defense isn't anything close to AD or PJ's, and he's fairly slight. Wallace, of course, is a heck of a defender, but without a good complement other teams really take advantage of him and draw him out guarding guys who can shoot from the perimeter or run him ragged going back and forth. Part of it seems to be coaching. Offensively I cringe when I see Wallace come out to set a screen, which is way too often. I don't know if they're just so freaking beholden to keeping Wallace happy they do things to keep him "involved" or what, but why not do that with Smith. Bringing Wallace out to screen someone (I've seen it most often for Gordon, a couple times on the Gordon iso play we always run at the end) just creates an automatic double team and takes our best rebounder out of position.
