i said this a while ago and got blazed for it, but rod thorn has done a horrific job as a GM in past years. his terrible FA ability really hurts this team, he infatuation with old vets is unbeleivable. its surprising, everyone knew girls like malik, mag, and whoever were slugs, i dont understand why he doesnt sign young guys like Blatche. his drafting has been decent, although stefanski handled most of thatt. the boki trade was an excellent one for one year but boki has regressed and will he ever go out of his funk? his FA list includes: mcinnis, childs, marc jackson, mag, malik, da, padgett, murray.... these guys suck. thorn has done two major trades: Kidd and RJ, outside of that, nil. rod thorn is overrated forgot to mention VC, why did we sign him to a 60 mil dolla deal? who were we bidding against?????
Why would you get "blazed" for that? And that Boki deal was nothing but a salary dump. It's purely coincidental that he ever had value on the court.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>forgot to mention VC, why did we sign him to a 60 mil dolla deal? who were we bidding against?????</div> i thought i was the only one who thought like this, nobody was even bidding on him and they threw him that rediculous contract
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why would you get "blazed" for that? And that Boki deal was nothing but a salary dump. It's purely coincidental that he ever had value on the court.</div> it was during the 05-06 campaign when i said guys like vaughn and murray were scrubs and thorn sucks at signing FAs. everyone was in a thorn love fest back then
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Jan 17 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>forgot to mention VC, why did we sign him to a 60 mil dolla deal? who were we bidding against?????</div> i thought i was the only one who thought like this, nobody was even bidding on him and they threw him that rediculous contract </div> seriously, VC would have had to accept that offer. orlando didnt want him and MJ hates VC, we stupidly gave an aging 31 year old vc a 5 year deal. seriously, thorn overpays rj, collins and now vc. he even sux at resigning our own players
i hate how this idiot just sits back and watch us suck and says stuff like "I wanna see us play more before i try to make a trade" or some stupid crap like that is so stupid do something or give the job to kiki cause i bet he will make a trade
The Nets had a real chance to win a championship and they completely blew it by not being aggressive enough. Rod Thorn shouldn't be the one who gets the next chance.
Yeah, I don't know anyone that was complaining about Thorn's moves in the summer of 2005 or throughout the 2005-2006 season http://www.basketballforum.com/new-jersey-...off-roster.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets had a real chance to win a championship and they completely blew it by not being aggressive enough. Rod Thorn shouldn't be the one who gets the next chance.</div> true but rod haas never got us a PF that could actually produce.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets had a real chance to win a championship and they completely blew it by not being aggressive enough. Rod Thorn shouldn't be the one who gets the next chance.</div> Rod was agressive, but he went after the wrong players SAR and McInnis FTL
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Jan 17 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>forgot to mention VC, why did we sign him to a 60 mil dolla deal? who were we bidding against?????</div> i thought i was the only one who thought like this, nobody was even bidding on him and they threw him that rediculous contract </div> seriously, VC would have had to accept that offer. orlando didnt want him and MJ hates VC, we stupidly gave an aging 31 year old vc a 5 year deal. seriously, thorn overpays rj, collins and now vc. he even sux at resigning our own players </div> i thought orlando was trying to make a trade for him before the deadline?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Jan 17 2008, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Jan 17 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 17 2008, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>forgot to mention VC, why did we sign him to a 60 mil dolla deal? who were we bidding against““?</div> i thought i was the only one who thought like this, nobody was even bidding on him and they threw him that rediculous contract </div> seriously, VC would have had to accept that offer. orlando didnt want him and MJ hates VC, we stupidly gave an aging 31 year old vc a 5 year deal. seriously, thorn overpays rj, collins and now vc. he even sux at resigning our own players </div> i thought orlando was trying to make a trade for him before the deadline? </div> otis smith, orlando GM, came out and called VC "fools gold". funny how every GM sees this expect our guy.
The hypocrisy here makes me tingle. Thorn has his strengths and weaknesses. --Other than Mutombo for KVH and McCollough, he has not made a bad trade. His good trades have been spectacular...Kidd, Carter and Jefferson for Marbury, Aaron and Eric Williams and Eddie Griffin. His salary dumps have worked out quite well (those who think he lucked into Nachbar should note that he could have traded Marc Jackson and a first rounder which turned out to be Boone to the Bobcats for salary relief). So have his short term deals: Cliff Robinson and Mikki Moore for three second round picks, the first two of which were used to take players who aren't even in the league anymore. --His draft record has to be among the best of the NBA, particularly lately. People who praise the development of Boone (#23) and Sean Williams (#17) and hope for the return of Nenad Krstic (#24) and Marcus Williams (#22) ought to realize where those players come from. Right now, Boone and Sean Williams look like steals of their respective drafts. Marcus Williams, in spite of his problems, is still 22 and was second in assists among backup point guards last year. That's not even mentioning Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson who he picked when "fans" were angling for Darius Miles and Eddie Griffin, one now an invalid, the other dead. He made a couple of bad picks in Planinic and to a lesser degree in Wright and a slew of poor second round picks, but I would suggest you ask, "compared to who" the next time you criticize his second round picks. --He knows when to dump players. Martin, Kerry Kittles, Lucious Harris were all fan favorites and not one of them did anything close to what they did with the Nets. Vaughn left because he saw that the Nets were going to give Marcus Williams more time. He went to San Antonio. Who wouldn't? Those who keep raving about Anthony Johnson should note that 1) Thorn twice picked him out of obscurity to give him a shot and 2) read what D'Alessandro and others have written about what a constant complainer he is. As for Hassan Adams, he was cut by the Cavs and then the only gig he could find overseas was with a second rank team in a second rank European league. --He has a dreadful record with free agent signings, whether pushed by Kidd to sign Mourning, or signing Mercer, McInnis, Magloire or the horrors who made up the team in 2004-05. (He should not be permitted to sign any more free agents whose names begin with M.) Early on, he had better luck, picking up McCollough and Aaron Williams. I have said, as has Dumpy, he should think about signing younger players rather than retreads. Suffice it to say it is his weakness...and it's a big one. BUT the bottom line is this, and it cannot be denied: Over the last six years, only four teams have made to the playoffs every year: the Mavs, Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only three teams have made it to the second round five times in that period: the Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only four teams have made it to the Finals twice in that period: the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers and Nets. Last year, which would be eight months ago, the Nets were in the second round, meaning the NBA's version of the Elite Eight. "Fans" here can complain that is a record of mediocrity. The assertion is laughable. There are about 25 teams who would accept that level of mediocrity with pleasure, thank you very much. That is what GM's do: put their teams in contention. It's up to players and coaches to do the rest. Before Thorn walked in the door of this franchise, it was the biggest joke in professional sports. THAT is a fact. Now, there is a higher standard. Good. Thorn is 66 years old. Kiki Vandeweghe (he of the Skita and Nene picks over Amare and the $150 million in contracts given KMart and Nene) will likely replace him. If Vandeweghe approximates Thorn's level of success, that would be great. But he will have an impossible time duplicating it. He has a higher starting point. Always happy to return sanity to the board. --
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 17 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The hypocrisy here makes me tingle. ..snip.. BUT the bottom line is this, and it cannot be denied: Over the last six years, only four teams have made to the playoffs every year: the Mavs, Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only three teams have made it to the second round five times in that period: the Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only four teams have made it to the Finals twice in that period: the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers and Nets. Last year, which would be eight months ago, the Nets were in the second round, meaning the NBA's version of the Elite Eight. "Fans" here can complain that is a record of mediocrity. The assertion is laughable. There are about 25 teams who would accept that level of mediocrity with pleasure, thank you very much. That is what GM's do: put their teams in contention. It's up to players and coaches to do the rest.</div> Claiming others are hypocrites while failing to provide appropriate context is hilarious. The Nets have not been in realistic contention for a championship in any of the previous three seasons, yet they had an all-time great player that was in his championship window. If the Nets didn't have such a player, then their playoff record in those seasons would not draw so much ire. Thorn has failed Kidd.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 17 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets had a real chance to win a championship and they completely blew it by not being aggressive enough. Rod Thorn shouldn't be the one who gets the next chance.</div> Rod was agressive, but he went after the wrong players SAR and McInnis FTL </div> It appears your version of "aggressive" differs from mine. Those were just more of the same kind of "value" moves Thorn is famous for. "Buy low, never sell" should be his motto.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 17 2008, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 17 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The hypocrisy here makes me tingle. ..snip.. BUT the bottom line is this, and it cannot be denied: Over the last six years, only four teams have made to the playoffs every year: the Mavs, Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only three teams have made it to the second round five times in that period: the Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only four teams have made it to the Finals twice in that period: the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers and Nets. Last year, which would be eight months ago, the Nets were in the second round, meaning the NBA's version of the Elite Eight. "Fans" here can complain that is a record of mediocrity. The assertion is laughable. There are about 25 teams who would accept that level of mediocrity with pleasure, thank you very much. That is what GM's do: put their teams in contention. It's up to players and coaches to do the rest.</div> Claiming others are hypocrites while failing to provide appropriate context is hilarious. The Nets have not been in realistic contention for a championship in any of the previous three seasons, yet they had an all-time great player that was in his championship window. If the Nets didn't have such a player, then their playoff record in those seasons would not draw so much ire. Thorn has failed Kidd. </div> Can't call me a hypocrite. I can find you a post that says exactly this from three years ago. It's more true now than ever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 17 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The hypocrisy here makes me tingle. Thorn has his strengths and weaknesses. --Other than Mutombo for KVH and McCollough, he has not made a bad trade. His good trades have been spectacular...Kidd, Carter and Jefferson for Marbury, Aaron and Eric Williams and Eddie Griffin. His salary dumps have worked out quite well (those who think he lucked into Nachbar should note that he could have traded Marc Jackson and a first rounder which turned out to be Boone to the Bobcats for salary relief). So have his short term deals: Cliff Robinson and Mikki Moore for three second round picks, the first two of which were used to take players who aren't even in the league anymore. --His draft record has to be among the best of the NBA, particularly lately. People who praise the development of Boone (#23) and Sean Williams (#17) and hope for the return of Nenad Krstic (#24) and Marcus Williams (#22) ought to realize where those players come from. Right now, Boone and Sean Williams look like steals of their respective drafts. Marcus Williams, in spite of his problems, is still 22 and was second in assists among backup point guards last year. That's not even mentioning Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson who he picked when "fans" were angling for Darius Miles and Eddie Griffin, one now an invalid, the other dead. He made a couple of bad picks in Planinic and to a lesser degree in Wright and a slew of poor second round picks, but I would suggest you ask, "compared to who" the next time you criticize his second round picks. --He knows when to dump players. Martin, Kerry Kittles, Lucious Harris were all fan favorites and not one of them did anything close to what they did with the Nets. Vaughn left because he saw that the Nets were going to give Marcus Williams more time. He went to San Antonio. Who wouldn't? Those who keep raving about Anthony Johnson should note that 1) Thorn twice picked him out of obscurity to give him a shot and 2) read what D'Alessandro and others have written about what a constant complainer he is. As for Hassan Adams, he was cut by the Cavs and then the only gig he could find overseas was with a second rank team in a second rank European league. --He has a dreadful record with free agent signings, whether pushed by Kidd to sign Mourning, or signing Mercer, McInnis, Magloire or the horrors who made up the team in 2004-05. (He should not be permitted to sign any more free agents whose names begin with M.) Early on, he had better luck, picking up McCollough and Aaron Williams. I have said, as has Dumpy, he should think about signing younger players rather than retreads. Suffice it to say it is his weakness...and it's a big one. BUT the bottom line is this, and it cannot be denied: Over the last six years, only four teams have made to the playoffs every year: the Mavs, Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only three teams have made it to the second round five times in that period: the Pistons, Spurs and Nets. Only four teams have made it to the Finals twice in that period: the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers and Nets. Last year, which would be eight months ago, the Nets were in the second round, meaning the NBA's version of the Elite Eight. "Fans" here can complain that is a record of mediocrity. The assertion is laughable. There are about 25 teams who would accept that level of mediocrity with pleasure, thank you very much. That is what GM's do: put their teams in contention. It's up to players and coaches to do the rest. Before Thorn walked in the door of this franchise, it was the biggest joke in professional sports. THAT is a fact. Now, there is a higher standard. Good. Thorn is 66 years old. Kiki Vandeweghe (he of the Skita and Nene picks over Amare and the $150 million in contracts given KMart and Nene) will likely replace him. If Vandeweghe approximates Thorn's level of success, that would be great. But he will have an impossible time duplicating it. He has a higher starting point. Always happy to return sanity to the board. --</div> Glad to have it back. Repped in spirit. The end game is the championship, not the second round, but Thorn has done a great job in turning around the franchise and putting us in a position to win. He hasn't excelled in his FA signings, but to concentrate on this one fault and not the other benefits he's done for the franchise is short-sighted, and innaccurate.
I've tried to research this many times, but I remember Thorn had a deal in place with the Clippers that would have sent them Stephon Marbury that the Clips backed out of at the last minute. Does anyone have details of that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 17 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>$150 million in contracts given KMart and Nene) --</div> Kiki was fired before Nene received his contract. That one can't be pinned on him. However, you can blame him for Reggie Evans contract (Kiki "promised" Reggie's agent that the Nuggets would resign him in order to get him to approve the trade since Reggie was playing on a QO and the Nuggets FO honored it even though Kiki was gone) and for DerMarr Johnson having a roster spot (another Kiki promise that the Nuggets front office honored after Kiki was fired)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 17 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 17 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets had a real chance to win a championship and they completely blew it by not being aggressive enough. Rod Thorn shouldn't be the one who gets the next chance.</div> Rod was agressive, but he went after the wrong players SAR and McInnis FTL </div> It appears your version of "aggressive" differs from mine. Those were just more of the same kind of "value" moves Thorn is famous for. "Buy low, never sell" should be his motto. </div> Aggressive in the sense that Thorn and company went all out to make SAR feel wanted to the point that he agreed to take the MLE if a S&T couldn't be worked out. Additionally, he went after both SAR and McInnis at the beginning of Free Agency. Yes, he wasn't financially aggressive, but he was aggressive in pursuing players above scrub level.
