Thabo Sefolosha

At the start of the season he looked inept and slow. Now he's looking awesome.

His rebounding ability is special for a guard. I love the way he's able to grab contested rebounds in the lane.

His man defense is okay. I don't think it's great because players can still get past him off the dribble, but he's able to hold his own. Of course, he's also a very good ballhawk and had a couple of poke-aways last night, so maybe he's above average.

His man sags off him because he can't shoot, so he generally has a very easy time running the offense and making passes. We're hopefully looking at our starting PG (though I think Gordon should probably still have the ball at the end of quarters and games. Probably.)

His versatility helps this team a bunch.

 

I don't really care what he's called positionally, but as far as what he brings to the table and how he can fit with our other players, I'm liking what I'm seeing.

Can play between Deng and Gordon or Hinrich? Check
Can defend fairly well? Check
Actually brings a slightly different aspect to our offense by being able to slash to the basket? Check
Improving jumpshot (granted, nowhere to go but up). Check

Still, we have to see what happens beyond 3 games. Based on last night, it really looked like Duhon might be out a while, so we'll probably get to find out.

 

Doesn't he have a 9'+ standing reach? He is a beastly powerforward standing reach and wingspan wise. When you consider he's a guard, that makes it even more freakish.

 

Thabo's play has been intriguing this last week, but it still leaves me with some questions, most of which concern the makeup of our team, and not his play.

Obviously, seeing the improved play from him has been encouraging, especially since we didn't know if he sucked or not. That said, I still have a hard time seeing where he fits in the bigger picture. We have a weird problem in that we have a bunch of players who individually are good but with limiting flaws, but put together have all the necessary skills needed to comprise a successful backcourt. But to play all 4 of them the necessary minutes to reap the optimum output of their different skills probably requires playing each guy less minutes than they merit individually. We had this problem before, but Thabo just makes it worse. He could play the '3' too, but we have Deng and Noc there, so I don't see how that makes anything better.

Concerning his individual play, I think it's been great. At the very least, we know he's capable of being a competent NBA player, even if only as a role player. (And I probably shouldn't use the words 'role player' negatively....Thabo seems like a natural supporting player).

I still don't see him as a point guard at all, though. He's a nifty ball handler, but not one who's capable of withstanding all the pressure he'd face as a point guard. He's not great at breaking down his man either. He does seem to have a natural talent for rebounding, and he already seems pretty able when he's guarding the other team's best wing players, and his length fits in nicely.

If his play keeps up, I think it opens up the possibility of using Deng as trade bait for a more marquee player (Pau Gasol???). I'll be curious to see how he fits in once Kirk gets back in the fold. (Although he's been so bad this year, maybe he's already created a solution for us by warranting less minutes).

 

Interesting post rosenthall. I think he brings a skillset that is nearly ideal for this team, and you think he mucks things up even more. Whether he can play PG seems to be the main point of disagreement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Concerning his individual play, I think it's been great. At the very least, we know he's capable of being a competent NBA player, even if only as a role player. (And I probably shouldn't use the words 'role player' negatively....Thabo seems like a natural supporting player).

I still don't see him as a point guard at all, though. He's a nifty ball handler, but not one who's capable of withstanding all the pressure he'd face as a point guard. He's not great at breaking down his man either. He does seem to have a natural talent for rebounding, and he already seems pretty able when he's guarding the other team's best wing players, and his length fits in nicely.</div>

I think he's an interesting alternative to KH and BG at the 1.

1. He is tall, so it's very hard to trap him - he can just throw it over or around his man. His height gives him a clear view of the court, too.
2. He has good handles.
3. His man tends to sag off him (because he can't shoot) so he can make most passes fairly easily.
4. He's very unselfish and tries to get others involved first (because he can't shoot.) In contrast, Gordon and Hinrich tend to over-dribble and will sometime take shots too early in the shot clock.

Regarding your other complaints: He hasn't faced intense ball pressure, but I can't recall seeing him lose the ball in that manner. I think most of his TOs have been botched fastbreak passes or just random mistakes. And even though he's not too quick, I think he's a deceptively good slasher because of his ball-handling and will be able to initiate offense decently off the pick and roll if necessary.

I'm not arguing that he should play PG full-time. In the flow of the game, KH and BG are going to take many possessions away from him. But I don't see any serious flaws that will prevent him from being a glue guy PG on offense, like Duhon.

In any case, he's so valuable on defense that we need to find out what he can do on offense. He's certainly not a SG.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If his play keeps up, I think it opens up the possibility of using Deng as trade bait for a more marquee player (Pau Gasol“?). I'll be curious to see how he fits in once Kirk gets back in the fold. (Although he's been so bad this year, maybe he's already created a solution for us by warranting less minutes).</div>

I would have done that last year, but I don't like that trade now. I don't think it makes the Bulls a championship squad, and it also shortens their window significantly because Gasol is 27 and Deng is 22.

I actually don't want Paxson to make any significant trades unless Wallace is included or off the team because I don't think Wallace is a starter or even a rotation player on a championship team.

The only Gasol trade I like is Wallace + Thomas for Gasol, which would leave the Bulls with a beautiful lineup. Memphis probably wouldn't bite, though.

 

Hi Rosenthall

I tend to agree more with you about Thabo as a PG, but I think it's possible he toughens up a bit under pressure and becomes a consistent option to bring it up the court and set things up.

I'm still thinking I'd trade Deng for Gasol. Deng, in my eyes, has taken a significant step backward. I know he's 22 vs. 27, but he's got two injuries that look like they could linger and isn't exactly quick to start with.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (such sweet thunder @ Jan 21 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jan 20 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>His rebounding and lack of speed is what makes him a decent backup small forward. However, in the absence of Hinrich, the Bulls were forced to play him and the results were impressive. I'm not sure we weren't playing a 1 guard kind of set out there with Duhon or Gordon as the only guard. In that kind of lineup, someone has to guard one of their guards, and Thabo is the guy.</div>

I don't think Thabo's slow, but basketball-stupid. I just finished watching the Detroit game and am finally ready to respond to this thread. I still have so many questions about Thabo's game. At the end of the day, the Bulls have three players who are above average on offense: Deng, Gordon, and Noc. And when I look at these three players' games, they have such a well rounded skill set when compared to Sefolosha. It's really just night and day. Thabo tried to take his man off the dribble twice in the Pistons game. The first time resulted in a traveling call, the second an off-balanced dying quail of a jump shot.

I mean, compare Thabo to a Brandon Roy type player -- that is what we're looking for from our two guard position. It's almost as if, since Sefolosha has shown he's not a complete and utter bust and might deserve minutes for some team somewhere, that we're portraying him of possessing some kind of value that he clearly does not.
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Well... err... there's some kind of value in not being a complete peice of trash. I think he does have some stuff going for him that can make him a useful NBA player. Saying he's not Brandon Roy doesn't mean he's trash

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (such sweet thunder @ Jan 21 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jan 20 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>His rebounding and lack of speed is what makes him a decent backup small forward. However, in the absence of Hinrich, the Bulls were forced to play him and the results were impressive. I'm not sure we weren't playing a 1 guard kind of set out there with Duhon or Gordon as the only guard. In that kind of lineup, someone has to guard one of their guards, and Thabo is the guy.</div>

I don't think Thabo's slow, but basketball-stupid. I just finished watching the Detroit game and am finally ready to respond to this thread. I still have so many questions about Thabo's game. At the end of the day, the Bulls have three players who are above average on offense: Deng, Gordon, and Noc. And when I look at these three players' games, they have such a well rounded skill set when compared to Sefolosha. It's really just night and day. Thabo tried to take his man off the dribble twice in the Pistons game. The first time resulted in a traveling call, the second an off-balanced dying quail of a jump shot.

I mean, compare Thabo to a Brandon Roy type player -- that is what we're looking for from our two guard position. It's almost as if, since Sefolosha has shown he's not a complete and utter bust and might deserve minutes for some team somewhere, that we're portraying him of possessing some kind of value that he clearly does not.
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yet against Miami he shredded Dwayne Wade with a couple of nice shake and bake moves and did the same against Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson when we played Golden State - all of whom are no defensive slouches

He is quick too. Don't know where the talk is of his slowness is coming from . He has a very nice first step off the dribble drive .

Golden State tried to trap him a couple of times when he was bringing it up -and as has been brought up in this thread - his height and length allow him to work his way out of this OK . The rest of it is mental strength in not panicking and keeping a cool head

Whilst I believe he will be able to get his own shot consistently - this is not much use if he can't develop a consistent mid range game which isn't there right now. Further , I don't think he is a natural scorer but he is a natural playmaker . I like his vision and his passing game - he's got really goood instincts.

Playing him with Kirk and Ben is ideal as he doesn't have to wear the burden of "Point Guard" and can share ball handling duties with Hinrich and Gordon. Outside of Duhon , I think he could be the best transition "push" guard we have . By playing him more and having him handle more ( I really liked he and Gordon together against Golden State ) it takes Kirk off the ball more which is where I would like to see him at the start of and end of games more

I think he is up to it and if he can develop his mid range game and take some confidence in that ..well I am prepared to be bashed Sweet Thunder , but I do believe that Thabo can give us a lot of production that we would have got from Brandon Roy . Give him the rest of this season and next and I reckon you would see him as an 18ppg , 6apg, 6rpg 2spg type player

 

Be careful Abe, that limb doesn't look sturdy to me.

In my optimistic moments I'd agree, although if he could put up those numbers with only 10-12 ppg I'd be wildly thrilled.

 

18 - 6 - 6 are elite numbers. He'd be an all-star if he ever did that.

I'd say something like 12 points - 7 rebounds - 3 assists - 2 steals is more realistic given his per 40 numbers so far. Just a shot in the dark, though.