Yes he can. This will be my silver lining for this cloud of a season. As the years go by, I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of drafting the best player available and shying away from the whole potential thing. For every Dwight Howard there're six Tyrus Thomases. Noahs going to be a consistent twelve rebound per game player by this time next year -- which is nice considering he can hit his free throws and looks like Michael Jordan when lined up next to Tyson Chandler. This is actually quite a positive, and something worth celebrating in this dreadful year of nothing. Jaokim's help defense is looking good. His man defense is looking close to that. He can handle the ball. Really, almost best case scenario from him. A recent draft pick that will actually live up to expectations?
I think this goes in the line of thinking in drafting my guys. 2003- Dwyane Wade 2004- Luol Deng 2006- LaMarcus Aldridge 2007- Joakim Noah Lots of talent there, and all would be great picks. (I think that Brandon Roy, in hindsight, would have been the true correct pick). This is the player I thought Noah was. Not that bumbling fool who couldn't catch a ball at the beginning of the year. It also looks like we may resurrect Thabo. Noah/Thabo is a duo that will force a ton of turnovers. Tyrus Thomas stinks though. We need to package him with Nocioni and get something for that pairing at the deadline.
Fun fact of the day: Despite a 17.11 PER, Noah has never played more than 24 minutes in a game until tonight. Uh... I wonder how Wallace feels after getting completely outplayed by his backup. Negativity aside, Noah was a fantastic draft pick and is likely going to be better than many of the players picked before him - Brewer, Green, Yi, Brandan Wright. What's really interesting to me is that Noah is outplaying Horford (of course, Noah is a year older). Horford was supposed to be a better NBA player because of his build and shooting ability, but it hasn't shown up in the stats so far - Noah is about as efficient scoring and rebounding-wise, and he's a better shot blocker, passer and defender. Before the season I would have traded Noah for Horford no questions asked. Now, I would have to think really hard about it. edited
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ Jan 23 2008, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to have Tyrus, he could eliminate us giving up offensive rebounds.</div> He's not a great rebounder - you guys basically have a better version of Tyrus in Josh Smith. You don't need two of them.
Josh Smith is to Napoleon as Tyrus Thomas is to a peasant. Horford and Noah would be a beastly NBA frontcourt. Unfortunately, we would have to trade one of Gordon and Deng at the very least to get him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (such sweet thunder @ Jan 23 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes he can. This will be my silver lining for this cloud of a season. As the years go by, I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of drafting the best player available and shying away from the whole potential thing. For every Dwight Howard there're six Tyrus Thomases. Noahs going to be a consistent twelve rebound per game player by this time next year -- which is nice considering he can hit his free throws and looks like Michael Jordan when lined up next to Tyson Chandler. This is actually quite a positive, and something worth celebrating in this dreadful year of nothing. Jaokim's help defense is looking good. His man defense is looking close to that. He can handle the ball. Really, almost best case scenario from him. A recent draft pick that will actually live up to expectations?</div> What I've learned is that for the guys who actually make quantum leaps up in "fulfulling potential", most of them were the right "ready to play" picks too. You mentioned Howard. In my productivity rating system, his rookie year rated out about the same as Okafor's (only marginally lower in per game basis and a smidge higher on per 48). They were #1 and 2 in their class their rookie years. Pretty similar with Amare. He came in and had the second highest productivity in his class amongst his rookie year (he was a close 2nd to Yao and a bit ahead of Caron Butler). In other words, those guys weren't actually "potential" picks, they were good from day one with a lot of upside to boot. I think it's quite a bit rarer to see guys who can't play worth a damn at first suddenly start lighting it up. It happens, but usually guys are good from the get-go.
Exactly, which is why I want to trade Thomas. I'd try an Okafor for Hinirch/Thomas/Gray angle. Looking back, trading Hinrich/Thomas for the third pick (Horford) may have been the right decision. (I think that was being floated around). PG-Ben Gordon SG-Thabo Sefolosha SF-Luol Deng PF-Al Horford C- Joakim Noah for the future. I think Horford/Noah, like in college, would have made a great NBA duo. I always liked Noah more than Horford, and Noah was my guy when we picked, but Horford would be a great complement to Noah. With all that buzz around Bulls trading for Horford during draft time, it looks like we should have. Too late now, Hinrich/Thomas, I doubt that gets Horford.
Those who know my posts over the past few years will recognize that I have constantly talked about "impact" or "ready to play" rookies. I griped about the Thomas pick because we had the #2 pick and there were actual "impact" guys we could have drafted - in fact we drafted one named LeMarcus Aldridge who we obviously (now, and to me then) should have kept. While others criticized Noah for his lack of shooting skills at range, I was quite happy with the pick because he was ready to play in every other way. I knew he could handle the ball without turning it over, and pass, and rebound, and block shots, and play defense. At the offensive end, I figured he'd score on dunks but mostly add to the offense with his ballhandling and passing skills. So far, he's been everything I expected all along. I did figure that Smith would start the season at PF to give us the best shot at winning on the circus trip and that Noah would then end up the starter. So far that prediction hasn't panned out - though it's been the coach's decision.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jan 24 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What I've learned is that for the guys who actually make quantum leaps up in "fulfulling potential", most of them were the right "ready to play" picks too. You mentioned Howard. In my productivity rating system, his rookie year rated out about the same as Okafor's (only marginally lower in per game basis and a smidge higher on per 48). They were #1 and 2 in their class their rookie years. Pretty similar with Amare. He came in and had the second highest productivity in his class amongst his rookie year (he was a close 2nd to Yao and a bit ahead of Caron Butler). In other words, those guys weren't actually "potential" picks, they were good from day one with a lot of upside to boot. I think it's quite a bit rarer to see guys who can't play worth a damn at first suddenly start lighting it up. It happens, but usually guys are good from the get-go.</div> The only problem with your theory being, how do you tell who is going to be NBA ready out of the gate? Howard, at least to me, looked like he had a high bust-probability in high school. I remember watching him get outplayed by Randolph Morris -- he really didn't know how to rebound or play -- just had great athleticism and soft hands. I never would have guessed that he was going to be good his rookie season. Same with Amare, who just looked lost during the McDonalds All-American game. Meanwhile, Marcus Fizer was supposed to be the most NBA draft-ready out of his class.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rwj @ Jan 23 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Fun fact of the day: Despite a 17.11 PER, Noah has never played more than 24 minutes in a game until tonight. Uh... I wonder how Wallace feels after getting completely outplayed by his backup. Negativity aside, Noah was a fantastic draft pick and is likely going to be better than many of the players picked before him - Brewer, Green, Yi, Brandan Wright. What's really interesting to me is that Noah is outplaying Horford (of course, Noah is a year older). Horford was supposed to be a better NBA player because of his build and shooting ability, but it hasn't shown up in the stats so far - Noah is about as efficient scoring and rebounding-wise, and he's a better shot blocker, passer and defender. Before the season I would have traded Noah for Horford no questions asked. Now, I would have to think really hard about it. edited</div>I'm starting to like the Noah pick, however, I don't see him being better than those listed players. Yi has been a pleasant surprise I'd say. He's shown he can score and he's only going to get better. Ever since Jeff Green got more burn, he's been producing. If he can add a more consistent jumper to his game, he'll end up being a very, very good player. Brandan Wright, I'd say has the most potential out of all the players in the last draft (next to Oden and Durant). He's an athletic freak and I think could turn into something special once he gets an offensive game. I look at him as a Josh Smith type player at the moment, and quite frankly, Smith has developed into a very good player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (such sweet thunder @ Jan 24 2008, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only problem with your theory being, how do you tell who is going to be NBA ready out of the gate? Howard, at least to me, looked like he had a high bust-probability in high school. I remember watching him get outplayed by Randolph Morris -- he really didn't know how to rebound or play -- just had great athleticism and soft hands. I never would have guessed that he was going to be good his rookie season. Same with Amare, who just looked lost during the McDonalds All-American game. Meanwhile, Marcus Fizer was supposed to be the most NBA draft-ready out of his class.</div> HS to NBA big men are a mixed bag. You can look at guys who worked out and wonder why, or you can look at the Kwame Browns, too, and realize it's hit/miss. It's been that way with players less tall, as well - even Pax has a 50/50 record with the youngest of his picks: Deng (lucky) and Thomas (unlucky). You ask how you tell who is going to be NBA ready... You'd think a guy who started on back to back NCAA champions and played 3 years is going to be pretty much ready. You can measure his strength and speed and how high he jumps and realize he's got the physical abilities. You can't teach height, so that's a big help, too. In the case of JWill, he had the resume, but you can't teach height In the case of Fizer, he was plenty good from the start, but played out of position at SF which really hurt his growth. He was an NBA player in his first season. If you hear that a guy is going to be a project, you better stay away unless you have a Brian Hill type coach who makes a connection with the guy and can teach. NBA Ready doesn't mean 25 PPG or double-double even, it just means you can play the guy first game as a rookie and he'll look like he belongs. Duhon was ready.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (such sweet thunder @ Jan 24 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jan 24 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What I've learned is that for the guys who actually make quantum leaps up in "fulfulling potential", most of them were the right "ready to play" picks too. You mentioned Howard. In my productivity rating system, his rookie year rated out about the same as Okafor's (only marginally lower in per game basis and a smidge higher on per 48). They were #1 and 2 in their class their rookie years. Pretty similar with Amare. He came in and had the second highest productivity in his class amongst his rookie year (he was a close 2nd to Yao and a bit ahead of Caron Butler). In other words, those guys weren't actually "potential" picks, they were good from day one with a lot of upside to boot. I think it's quite a bit rarer to see guys who can't play worth a damn at first suddenly start lighting it up. It happens, but usually guys are good from the get-go.</div> The only problem with your theory being, how do you tell who is going to be NBA ready out of the gate? Howard, at least to me, looked like he had a high bust-probability in high school. I remember watching him get outplayed by Randolph Morris -- he really didn't know how to rebound or play -- just had great athleticism and soft hands. I never would have guessed that he was going to be good his rookie season. Same with Amare, who just looked lost during the McDonalds All-American game. Meanwhile, Marcus Fizer was supposed to be the most NBA draft-ready out of his class. </div> Heh, I didn't say it was a predictive theory Just descriptive. If you look at the guys who are really good, most of them are guys who are good from the get-go.
post on BBF a couple of years ago by...ME!!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>NO!!! Tyrus is the next Stormile swift or Marcus Haslip.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>How do you see Tyrus this season? stormile swift how do you see him over his career? a role player to sixth man who does he most seem like? just an athlete</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I seriously don't see whats so speicial about Tyrus, he seems like those players that are pick high because they can jump out of the gym and can block shots.He seem like one of those players that are pick high like Adrian Griffin, Stromile, Darius Miles, Kwame Brown,Eddy Curry because they can jump out of the gym, or have a great nba body, but 5 years later GMs relized they can't really play and those players are coming off the bench for there 3rd team or something, Tyrus is no diffrent. He's 6'8 217 pounds he wants to play small foward but he has no mid range jump shot, so he's going to be force to play the PF and he's going to get killed. the only reason he was able to do his thing in LSU is because all the focus was on glenn "BIG BABY" Davis.I Hope the Bulls don't pick him the are really going to regret it</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Originally Posted by o.iatlhawksfan he wants to play small foward but he has no mid range jump shot</div>
David Thorpe on Joakim Noah http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-1...oakim-Noah.html Ball-handling ability is a cool ability for a big player to have. That last move on Okafor was nice.
